Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

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#95,576
#95,576
SugarCC said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't USC heading toward violations in 2010, whenever he took that job?
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Correct. Kiffin got left with Pete Carroll's mess at USC. He did well with the "store bought" players but floundered when the sanctions kicked in.

If he came to UT, facing sanctions, I'd suggest looking at his last full year at USC where recruiting suffered and he got fired the next year.
 
#95,577
#95,577
VOLinCO said:
I don’t see either Kiffin or UT making this move. But, here are some possible reasons why it would make sense to him:

1. Kiffin knows that there will be low expectations for the next few years. If he turns it around quickly, he’s a hero among fans and his star will shine brighter than ever with the national media. He can demand anything. If he doesn’t, he will still take home a massive check and avoid the grumbling due to poor performance.
2. He has navigated these waters before. He knows he can produce in this situation.
3. He is aware of the 2022 TN state class, and I suspect he is confident he can sell them on a return to prominence, early playing time and his NFL connections.
4. He knows UT administration and boosters will give him everything possible to right this ship. A hefty budget for coaches and staff. All the consultants he wants.
5. UT‘s facilities and support are superior.
6. UT plays in an easier division.
7. He could make more money. Not just a bump over his existing pay. Think of the potential for unique performance incentives (winning season in Yr. 1 = $300,000 bonus. Then another $100,000+ for every win above 7 - 5).
8. He has many of the VFLs on his side already. Always good to have them calling for you.
9. He gets to break in a new AD and staff who will be pressured to help him facilitate a return to success.
10. He knows that, despite the past, he still has strong support from many of the UT fans. They will turn out for games in response to the excitement he can generate (another opportunity to leverage a contractual bonus).
11. He has maintained ties to the biggest boosters at UT. They will be in his corner.

Just a few off the top off my head.
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12. He knows how to coach quarterbacks.
 
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#95,579
#95,579
I wonder if any players from our current class of signees will be ruled ineligible for improper benefits?
 
#95,580
#95,580
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Chadwell got owned by the NCAA at Charleston Southern.

I'd put down a stack of McDs Happy Meals that if he hangs another 2 years at Coastal Carolina, the NCAA will own him there.

It's odd, isn't it, how he goes to a random unheard of football school, they win big then vacate those wins....... he is now at another random unheard of football school winning big........ want to guess what comes next?????

Hard pass.
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Have you actually read what happened at Charleston Southern? It was blatant cheating so much as it was student-athletes taking advantage of the system.
 
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#95,581
#95,581
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Correct. Kiffin got left with Pete Carroll's mess at USC. He did well with the "store bought" players but floundered when the sanctions kicked in.

If he came to UT, facing sanctions, I'd suggest looking at his last full year at USC where recruiting suffered and he got fired the next year.
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Not the point.
 
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#95,582
#95,582
VOLinCO said:
I don’t see either Kiffin or UT making this move. But, here are some possible reasons why it would make sense to him:

1. Kiffin knows that there will be low expectations for the next few years. If he turns it around quickly, he’s a hero among fans and his star will shine brighter than ever with the national media. He can demand anything. If he doesn’t, he will still take home a massive check and avoid the grumbling due to poor performance.
2. He has navigated these waters before. He knows he can produce in this situation.
3. He is aware of the 2022 TN state class, and I suspect he is confident he can sell them on a return to prominence, early playing time and his NFL connections.
4. He knows UT administration and boosters will give him everything possible to right this ship. A hefty budget for coaches and staff. All the consultants he wants.
5. UT‘s facilities and support are superior.
6. UT plays in an easier division.
7. He could make more money. Not just a bump over his existing pay. Think of the potential for unique performance incentives (winning season in Yr. 1 = $300,000 bonus)
8. He has many of the VFLs on his side already. Always good to have them calling for you.
9. He gets to break in a new AD and staff who will be pressured to help him facilitate a return to success.
10. He knows that, despite the past, he still has strong support from many of the UT fans. They will turn out for games in response to the excitement he can generate (another opportunity to leverage a contractual bonus).
11. He has maintained ties to the biggest boosters at UT. They will be in his corner.

Just a few off the top off my head.
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#2 Negative. He sank at USC because he couldn't recruit under sanctions.
#3 Negative. Why come to TN and be shut out of at least an NY6 bowl like many SEC schools? Why RETURN to prominence instead of BE prominence if you're 3 and out?
#4 Negative. Never has UT opened the purse like Bama or GA for staffing. NEVER SEEN IT.
#9 Breaking in a new AD and staff as a +?????

I appreciate the stretch, but seriously: there's literally no...... completely fired .... recruiting staff at UT football, there's no AD, your best recruiting coaching just got torched and are gone, and there's a bunch of players in the portal.

None of that is true at Ole Miss. Kiffin would have to be a certifiable narcissistic crazy to believe "Yeah, I'm ready to go the long haul at UT right now!"
 
#95,588
#95,588
SugarCC said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't USC heading toward sanctions in 2010, whenever he took that job?
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no they weren’t. they were blindsided.

No one had any idea the ncaa was going to crush them for Reggie bush involvement w/ an agent.
In fact, court transcripts and phone records show that they had nothing at all on the Todd McNair for USC...
 
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#95,590
#95,590
I4Jay said:
no they weren’t. they were blindsided.

No one had any idea the ncaa was going to crush them for Reggie bush involvement w/ an agent.
In fact, court transcripts and phone records show that they had nothing at all on the Todd McNair for USC...
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But it wasn't Kiffin's issue. That's my point in this.

Kiffin FAILED in being able to recruit under sanctions and win. My point is he'd likely fail to recruit and win under sanctions at TN.
 
#95,592
#95,592
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
#2 Negative. He sank at USC because he couldn't recruit under sanctions.
#3 Negative. Why come to TN and be shut out of at least an NY6 bowl like many SEC schools? Why RETURN to prominence instead of BE prominence if you're 3 and out?
#4 Negative. Never has UT opened the purse like Bama or GA for staffing. NEVER SEEN IT.
#9 Breaking in a new AD and staff as a +?????

I appreciate the stretch, but seriously: there's literally no...... completely fired .... recruiting staff at UT football, there's no AD, your best recruiting coaching just got torched and are gone, and there's a bunch of players in the portal.

None of that is true at Ole Miss. Kiffin would have to be a certifiable narcissistic crazy to believe "Yeah, I'm ready to go the long haul at UT right now!"
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#2: USC class rankings: 2011 - #4; 2012 - #8; 2013 - #13 (Rivals). I believe some of the problems were associated there with Ed O’s defense, That‘s another matter.

#3: UT is probably looking at a 1-year bowl ban. I doubt any of these recruits will be starting in Fall 2022 on a team in a NY6 bowl. They can start at UT and be in a bowl in 2023 season. If Butch could sell them on a dream and a prayer, I‘m confident Kiffin knows he can.

#4. Hmm, wasn’t Monte Kiffin the highest paid Coordinator or in the top 3 in college ball in 2009? I understand your sentiment, but I believe UT has been fairly generous the last few years. Maybe not with a HC. But, yes with staff. And, I thing it could get more aggressive to save the program.

#9: Yes. I’m not talking about training a new group. Experienced personnel will be hired. However, there is a massive benefit to being in the honeymoon period when both groups are new. The A.D. and compliance will bust their butts in support of the football head coach/staff. And they will have plenty of people ensuring that it happens.

Regarding Kiffin being a narcissist, I think that is pretty clear already. How many head coaches do you know that aren’t one on some level, especially in the SEC? Would a move to Tennessee be a high risk for Kiffin? IMO, no. More money and more potential for high reward in the next 3 - 5 years with very low expectations. But that’s a decision he would have to make if UT was even interested in him.
 
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#95,593
#95,593
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Chadwell got owned by the NCAA at Charleston Southern.

I'd put down a stack of McDs Happy Meals that if he hangs another 2 years at Coastal Carolina, the NCAA will own him there.

It's odd, isn't it, how he goes to a random unheard of football school, they win big then vacate those wins....... he is now at another random unheard of football school winning big........ want to guess what comes next?????

Hard pass.
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Chadwell was cleared of what happened at Charleston Southern. It was compliance department mess up that affected six different sports there.
 
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#95,594
#95,594
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
This notion that Arch will show up at a program under NCAA sanctions is laughable.

Arch will likely go to a stable for years, successful program with an incredibly strong offensive line.

Does that sound like UT,?
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Eli went to Ole Miss because of Cutcliffe. I suspect Arch will also go to a school with the better QB coach/opportunity. He probably won’t be playing until Fall of 2024. Plenty of time to bounce back at UT. We are not getting the SMU treatment.

Besides, maybe David will retire from Duke in the next couple of years, and Tennessee’s head coach can hire him as a consultant. Game over in the Manning recruitment then.
 
#95,595
#95,595
JohnnyD1024 said:
Chadwell was cleared of what happened at Charleston Southern. It was compliance department mess up that affected six different sports there.
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Isn't that special? Especially since only the football team was the only program overachieving?

Give him 2 more years at Coastal....... and the NCAA will get him
 
#95,596
#95,596
VOLinCO said:
Eli went to Ole Miss because of Cutcliffe. I suspect Arch will also go to a school with the better QB coach/opportunity. He probably won’t be playing until Fall of 2024. Plenty of time to bounce back to UT. We are not getting the SMU treatment.

Besides, maybe David will retire from Duke in the next couple of years, and Tennessee’s head coach can hire him as a consultant. Game over in the Manning recruitment then.
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Good Lord. We're likely to field an interim HC in 2021, we lack an entire recruiting office and our best recruiting coaches...... not to mention wharever sanctions the NCAA dishes out.

Arch IS likely a great QB but he has knees. He'd likely prefer an O Line that isn't transfers and freshmen. Get a grip.

It's amazing you don't realize Arch can pick and choose and will surely choose a school that will provide him a chance to win a Natty. Do you REALLY think UT is that school?
 
#95,598
#95,598
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Isn't that special? Especially since only the football team was the only program overachieving?

Give him 2 more years at Coastal....... and the NCAA will get him
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So you think he's cheating to sign classes that are middle of the pack in the Sunbelt conference? The issues at CSU were student athletes spending scholarship money on stuff they weren't supposed to be spending it on. Their compliance department was just one person and they didn't catch until it got out of hand.
 
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#95,599
#95,599
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Good Lord. We're likely to field an interim HC in 2021, we lack an entire recruiting office and our best recruiting coaches...... not to mention wharever sanctions the NCAA dishes out.

Arch IS likely a great QB but he has knees. He'd likely prefer an O Line that isn't transfers and freshmen. Get a grip.
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UT, not we, will likely hire an AD in the next 3 days and a HC by next week.

Sounds like our best recruiting coaches were simply good because of sloppy payments to players. UT will end up with a decent class this year. Not Top-5. But not shabby considering the circumstances.

The sanctions will probably be a 1-Year bowl ban and a few scholarships. UT football will have a couple of challenging years. Of course, we’ve had 12 freaking challenging years, so what’s two more. But the program will move on and very likely come out better with the right hires.

As for getting a grip, sounds like you really need to take heed to your own advice.
 
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#95,600
#95,600
JohnnyD1024 said:
So you think he's cheating to sign classes that are middle of the pack in the Sunbelt conference? The issues at CSU were student athletes spending scholarship money on stuff they weren't supposed to be spending it on. Their compliance department was just one person and they didn't catch until it got out of hand.
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I think he's winning beyond the norm at two programs.

At CSU ODDLY...... VERY ODDLY...... only the football program excelled but the "compliance issue was widespread."

At Coastal, suddenly he's excelling again....... yeah okay.

Maybe he's a great coach who doesn't want to take the usual path of working in a larger program as an OC/DC and learning from a top tier coach.

Maybe he's "The Natural" and a purebred prodigy who appeared out of nowhere.

And maybe I'm the Duchess of Romania, who needs a shave.......
 
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