Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

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#123,327
#123,327
Crazy Ivan said:
It is just about impossible to say what all southerners were fighting for. Certainly for most of the 1850s the biggest debates in Congress were over slavery, not necessarily slavery in the South, as Lincoln and most of the Republicans who were former Whigs believed that slavery where it existed was protected by the Constitution. Former abolitionists in the party certainly did attack slavery in the south, but while loud, they were a minority. But the big fight was over the western territories, and would they come in as free or slave states.

To pro-slavery southerners, the concern was that if the territories were to become free states, there was the possibility that at some point, those opposed to slavery could have enough free states to amend the Constitution and abolish slavery. The 7 Deep South states that seceded after Lincoln was elected pretty much made it clear in their ordinances of secession that protecting their right to slavery was their main issue. Of course that doesn't mean all citizens in those states supported slavery or secession, as most of those states had areas here in there that not only did not support slavery, but did not support secession.

For the 4 Upper South states - TN, Ark, NC, and VA - it was different. In early resolutions, the citizens of those states rejected secession several votes. It was not until Lincoln called for 75000 volunteers that those 4 states voted to secede, doing so because they believed in a state's right to secede, so preserving slavery was not the issue for those states.
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Once again...amen brother. A true historian. Not just the garbage fed today.
 
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#123,328
#123,328
Crazy Ivan said:
It is just about impossible to say what all southerners were fighting for. Certainly for most of the 1850s the biggest debates in Congress were over slavery, not necessarily slavery in the South, as Lincoln and most of the Republicans who were former Whigs believed that slavery where it existed was protected by the Constitution. Former abolitionists in the party certainly did attack slavery in the south, but while loud, they were a minority. But the big fight was over the western territories, and would they come in as free or slave states.

To pro-slavery southerners, the concern was that if the territories were to become free states, there was the possibility that at some point, those opposed to slavery could have enough free states to amend the Constitution and abolish slavery. The 7 Deep South states that seceded after Lincoln was elected pretty much made it clear in their ordinances of secession that protecting their right to slavery was their main issue. Of course that doesn't mean all citizens in those states supported slavery or secession, as most of those states had areas here in there that not only did not support slavery, but did not support secession.

For the 4 Upper South states - TN, Ark, NC, and VA - it was different. In early resolutions, the citizens of those states rejected secession several votes. It was not until Lincoln called for 75000 volunteers that those 4 states voted to secede, doing so because they believed in a state's right to secede, so preserving slavery was not the issue for those states.
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I do however think...most...80-90% were fighting for nothing more than their state. Most weren't necessarily politically minded at the time. Most did not even have a national interest in mind. They did however know, what State they lived in. 90 -90+ %, did not even own slaves.
 
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#123,332
#123,332
Crazy Ivan said:
JEB Stuart. Sort of jokingly.

Buford's cavalry was critical in the initial skirmish on Day 1.

Chamberlain's decision to attach bayonets and charge down the hill.

Lee, for not allowing Longstreet to swing his corp further to the right and flank the Union left.
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I'm glad we have a few knowledgeable folks on here. You, @BaldBiker and @Geaux_Vols are making me smile today.
 
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#123,339
#123,339
BaldBiker said:
That is a whole new discussion. "They" as you say, IMO, for the most part did not fight to keep slavery. They fought for states rights. It was about 80 years removed from our country actually gaining independence. That independence was started because 13 "states" wanted to be independent of English monarchy. They chose to fight together for that independence. The original premise was for the independent states to be under one governance to make sure that happened.
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Lol ok
 
#123,341
#123,341
When I was a young lad, my great grandfather would tell me, my brother and two of my 1st cousins who all lived within a few hundred yards of each other stories of his times as a soldier for the confederacy. Us four boys would never get tired sitting on the steps of his porch eating peaches or apples and listening as he talked . Great times
 
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#123,343
#123,343
BaldBiker said:
I do however think...most...80-90% were fighting for nothing more than their state. Most weren't necessarily politically minded at the time. Most did not even have a national interest in mind. They did however know, what State they lived in. 90 -90+ %, did not even own slaves.
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I 100% agree. When I say those 7 Deep States chose to secede over their right as a state to to maintain a slave culture, I am referring only to the powerbrokers, the major plantation owners who controlled those states, and their supporters in government. But I agree with you; most likely joined to fight for their state, which they believed was coming under attack.
 
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#123,346
#123,346
drvenner said:
I've been scrolling past all the Covid posts and am enjoying the hell out of the Civil War comments. Thanks, Fellas!
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Stay tuned, take your quiz, do your homework and then we'll move on to WW1 and beyond. Maybe we can all earn honorary history degrees or at least a certificate when we complete the course.
 
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#123,347
#123,347
Crazy Ivan said:
I personally believe Lee did make some critical mistakes. He was certainly hampered by Stuart leaving the army blind, and by Ewell's decision not to allow Early to take the East Cemetery Ridge after driving Union troops out of Gettysburg. But once it was clear the Union army was entrenched on the high ground, he really needed to reassess his battle plan. Granted, at that time he couldn't let his army sit indefinitely, and pulling out was not a good option with an army sitting right behind your retreat, but he did have other options that he did not really consider. But Longstreet had sent out scouts and new the Union's left flank was open. He put too much faith in the Confederate cannons being able to put accurate fire on the ridges (they ended up doing more damage to the rear echelon troops behind the ridges) before Pickett's charge. I think he had reached a point where he believed the army was indestructable and could accomplish anything. I also think he was weary of war and just wanted to get it over one way or the other.
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There's also some word that he was suffering from dysentery.
 
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