Recruiting - Army takes 45

[wtorange]

I'm not going to get in to a pissing contest with you on this. We went through the process with my son, who is a service academy graduate, and I now work with one of the Tennessee senators offices in assisting to help walk candidates through the process of applying for nomination.

Again, congress members (House members and Senators) make nominations, not appointments. They can nominate up to 5 individuals for each slot that is open in a given year. They don't make the appointments. The admissions committees of each individual academy makes the choices of who is going to get the appointments for available slots in a given year. One must have a congressional nomination before being considered for appointment.

Just because one is "nominated" by a member of congress doesn't mean that they are appointed and end up at a service academy. Each member of congress can have 5 nominees who have been appointed (admitted) at any of the 3 major service academies - the USMA, USNA, and USAFA - at any one time. That's 5 total regardless of what class they are in, not 5 per year.

So to follow your assertion that 25 were nominated by your local congressman, that means that 5 slots total were open among the 3 service academies, but not 25 from your congressional district will be admitted and appointed. That's just how it works.

There are a few "special consideration" slots available, primarily Vice Presidential and Secretary of the Army nominations, but those are few and far between.

The US Merchant Marine Academy is a different animal all together. The admission process for it, along with the United States Coast Guard Academy, are totally different.

Please note in my last post I said nominated. Three were to the Merchant Marine Academy which I think follows the same process. That means 22 were nominated to the other three. Two were athletes and had a signing ceremony just like the athletes attending other schools.

 

[TennesseeThumper]

Please note in my last post I said nominated. Three were to the Merchant Marine Academy which I think follows the same process. That means 22 were nominated to the other three. Two were athletes and had a signing ceremony just like the athletes attending other schools.

I understand. A signing ceremony for a service academy appointee is just that - ceremonial. They don't sign Letters of Intent as do civilian school signees since there are no such things as athletic scholarships. Every appointee "signs" the same contracts.

Many of the "recruited" athletes at the service academies first attend either Army, Navy, or Air Force prep schools if they don't academically qualify for direct admission out of high school. Those prep schools allow the student/athlete an opportunity to be exposed to the rigors of what lies ahead of them academically and militarily. If a student/athlete successfully completes a year at a prep school they are eligible for one of the special appointments that I mentioned earlier.

During that year in the prep school they play their sport against other prep schools. They are also not obligated to go on to the Academy, should they decided not to (and a significant number decided that they don't want to) and are free to go wherever they like.

The preps schools are just like any other prep schools in that they are not college, so an student/athlete's eligibility clock doesn't begin at the prep school.

Also, since Service Academies expect Cadets/Middies to complete their educations in 4 years and they only redshirt student/athletes in special circumstances, it allows an opportunity to use that year essentially as a redshirt year to get in to a S&C program.

 

[s1216]

I agree. There nothing better than watching our young men in the armed forces every yr in the Army vs Navy gm

yeah there is

 

[RockyTopGirl92]

Go Navy !

 

[CagleMtnVol]

Everyone of them is rated (5-Star) can't miss prospects in my opinion!

 

[johnboyhunter]

Just want to add some perspective on this thread. I was recruited by the Naval Academy to run track and cross-country and did my 4 years in Annapolis from 1989 to 1993. I then paid back my education with 6 years of service in the Marine Corps.

Appointment Process and treatment of athletes being recruited: There are about 10,000+ qualified nominations a year. Congressman, Senators, and even Secretary of Defense have nomination power. I received my nomination from Jimmy Quillen, R-TN. In the end the Appointment Board determines by vote who out of the 10,000 nominations get in (which has been running a little over 1,000 per year for all academies).

Athletes in the appointment process do have an advantage, but must meet the requirements. In my case I met the requirements (barely), but would not have stood on my own without athletics. So not having the strongest case for me, the Athletic Director pulled my file so he was the one presenting me to the appointment board and not a representative from the State of Tennessee.

After an athlete is appointed if he/she decides they do not want to play the sport that got them there in the first place (along with academics nonetheless) they can drop out of the sport and continue life as a Cadet/Midshipman etc... What happens is since it is so rigorous some athletes who got in to play football for instance, do drop out of the sport along the way to focus on academics (aka actually graduating). Even out of these kids who are our best and brightest some have to make a choice that the sport is infringing on their ability to make academic requirements and focus on graduation (we do not have PE majors at the Academies). Some guys I was recruited along side dropped out of track to focus on academy life.

Concerning pay, I remember my pay was exactly $453 per month. Out of this I paid for uniforms, tailoring of uniforms, shoes, shoe repair, books, alumni fund, etc.. etc... etc... So basically year 1 at the end of deductions per month I received around $50-$75. That went to buying cleaning supplies for my room and maybe occasionally a meal out in town on the 12 hours I was able to leave the premises each week year 1 (but most weekends I was on a bus traveling to a track meet). By my last year I was able to pocket $250 or so but now had a car on campus and they actually trusted me to leave the entire weekend! (only seniors can have cars on campus).

The above pay scenario forms my opinion on how we could pay athletes. Flat rate for everyone. Basically college football players are very much like we were at the academy. Scholarship, or in my case appointment paid for everything including 3 square meals a day, tuition etc.. BUT very similar to a college football player at a major D1 school, if the Academy allowed me to have a job, there was absolutely not enough time in the day to hold down a part time job to have a little spend cash. But I still needed some money to have some sort of relief or else for 4 years I would have to stay on campus and never be able to leave making me a social retard. This is why people who say that for NCAA athletes the scholly is their pay for play do not get it. You have more expenses in college than room, board and tuition. Football much like my track took up all my non-academic time (Track for me was 3 seasons, fall cross-country, winter indoor track, spring outdoor track). My parents did send me $100 every now and then. But some of these football players coming from places like Pahokee, FL do not have 2 nickels to rub together. Give them a couple hundred a month so they can go buy a slice of pizza (but NO TACOS, LOL), take a girl to a movie, or buy some clothes. Hold them to some standard on class attendance etc.. to receive the money or better yet make it tied to their APR promoting the student/athlete not dividing athletes on one side and students on the other.

Just some perspective. Go Navy, Beat Army! They are going to need those 45 players to catch up with us. 12 in a row!

 

[TDawg]

You are required to pass the height-weight standards even though that’s pretty much impossible while keeping your football weight.

-Go Army! Beat Navy! (please? once more in my lifetime?)

You could pass tape instead of weight? We had guys who were "over weight" myself included, but passed body fat % instead. Some of these lineman I guarantee still aren't making weight standards so they have to rely on that massive neck to get them in the range for BF.

 

[Coach Punk]

You could pass tape instead of weight? We had guys who were "over weight" myself included, but passed body fat % instead. Some of these lineman I guarantee still aren't making weight standards so they have to rely on that massive neck to get them in the range for BF.

They said that right after football season was over you’d see the linemen working on their necks. The guy I talked to most was a corner, so he had no pity.

 

[TennesseeThumper]

Just want to add some perspective on this thread. I was recruited by the Naval Academy to run track and cross-country and did my 4 years in Annapolis from 1989 to 1993. I then paid back my education with 6 years of service in the Marine Corps.

Appointment Process and treatment of athletes being recruited: There are about 10,000+ qualified nominations a year. Congressman, Senators, and even Secretary of Defense have nomination power. I received my nomination from Jimmy Quillen, R-TN. In the end the Appointment Board determines by vote who out of the 10,000 nominations get in (which has been running a little over 1,000 per year for all academies).

Athletes in the appointment process do have an advantage, but must meet the requirements. In my case I met the requirements (barely), but would not have stood on my own without athletics. So not having the strongest case for me, the Athletic Director pulled my file so he was the one presenting me to the appointment board and not a representative from the State of Tennessee.

After an athlete is appointed if he/she decides they do not want to play the sport that got them there in the first place (along with academics nonetheless) they can drop out of the sport and continue life as a Cadet/Midshipman etc... What happens is since it is so rigorous some athletes who got in to play football for instance, do drop out of the sport along the way to focus on academics (aka actually graduating). Even out of these kids who are our best and brightest some have to make a choice that the sport is infringing on their ability to make academic requirements and focus on graduation (we do not have PE majors at the Academies). Some guys I was recruited along side dropped out of track to focus on academy life.

Concerning pay, I remember my pay was exactly $453 per month. Out of this I paid for uniforms, tailoring of uniforms, shoes, shoe repair, books, alumni fund, etc.. etc... etc... So basically year 1 at the end of deductions per month I received around $50-$75. That went to buying cleaning supplies for my room and maybe occasionally a meal out in town on the 12 hours I was able to leave the premises each week year 1 (but most weekends I was on a bus traveling to a track meet). By my last year I was able to pocket $250 or so but now had a car on campus and they actually trusted me to leave the entire weekend! (only seniors can have cars on campus).

The above pay scenario forms my opinion on how we could pay athletes. Flat rate for everyone. Basically college football players are very much like we were at the academy. Scholarship, or in my case appointment paid for everything including 3 square meals a day, tuition etc.. BUT very similar to a college football player at a major D1 school, if the Academy allowed me to have a job, there was absolutely not enough time in the day to hold down a part time job to have a little spend cash. But I still needed some money to have some sort of relief or else for 4 years I would have to stay on campus and never be able to leave making me a social retard. This is why people who say that for NCAA athletes the scholly is their pay for play do not get it. You have more expenses in college than room, board and tuition. Football much like my track took up all my non-academic time (Track for me was 3 seasons, fall cross-country, winter indoor track, spring outdoor track). My parents did send me $100 every now and then. But some of these football players coming from places like Pahokee, FL do not have 2 nickels to rub together. Give them a couple hundred a month so they can go buy a slice of pizza (but NO TACOS, LOL), take a girl to a movie, or buy some clothes. Hold them to some standard on class attendance etc.. to receive the money or better yet make it tied to their APR promoting the student/athlete not dividing athletes on one side and students on the other.

Just some perspective. Go Navy, Beat Army! They are going to need those 45 players to catch up with us. 12 in a row!

Thanks for your service, and thank you for being a bit more in depth on the athletics side than I could be. I don't deal very often with recruited athletes in my work as a senator's office liaison.

The pay is a bit better now, but the expenses are likely a bit higher, as well, with inflation and general increased costs of living. My son graduated from West Point in 2009, and his monthly was around $800 as a Plebe, and increased to nearly $1000 as a Firstie, but as you did he had to play for uniforms, books, dry cleaning costs, and other incidentals that add up. As a Plebe he only got to pocket a couple of hundred dollars per month, but by the time he was a Firstie with everything pretty much paid for at that point that increased to $700-$800. More money to spend at the Firstie Club. :good!:

And you are correct - our side needs about 3 classes of 45 to even begin to catch up. You guys are just way ahead of Army in football right now.

 

[johnboyhunter]

Thanks for your service, and thank you for being a bit more in depth on the athletics side than I could be. I don't deal very often with recruited athletes in my work as a senator's office liaison.

The pay is a bit better now, but the expenses are likely a bit higher, as well, with inflation and general increased costs of living. My son graduated from West Point in 2009, and his monthly was around $800 as a Plebe, and increased to nearly $1000 as a Firstie, but as you did he had to play for uniforms, books, dry cleaning costs, and other incidentals that add up. As a Plebe he only got to pocket a couple of hundred dollars per month, but by the time he was a Firstie with everything pretty much paid for at that point that increased to $700-$800. More money to spend at the Firstie Club. :good!:

And you are correct - our side needs about 3 classes of 45 to even begin to catch up. You guys are just way ahead of Army in football right now.

Spent my last 2 years living 5 miles from West Point and was very involved in sponsoring Cadets in our home through the chaplain program and the Navigators. I was a Marine Captain at the time stationed at Newburgh w/ a C-130 squadron. I loved those 2 years mainly because of working with the Cadets at West Point. The name Nathan Self probably rings a bell. Silver Star recipeint/author/solid christian guy. He hung out at my house quite a few times and he and I led worship music in weekly meetings with cadets with our guitars.

Dang life has improved for Cadets/Midshipman. I know mine was in 1989-93 dollars, but I never got to pocket that much money. I was at the Academy this past summer for my 20th and also saw they have a higher % of females than before. Looked like 30%. We were at 10%. I would not have minded the change back then.