Reasons for Pessimism in 2020

#26
#26
99Vol said:
Barring injuries, next year should require more supplemental / support players than immediate impact players. We only lose Kennedy from O line, Taylor from D line, Bituli from Linebackers, and Warrior from DB's. It's a heck of a lot less attrition and glaring needs than last year or this year. I'm saying all of this with the perspective of 6 wins and a bowl game, not 9+ wins which would be an improvement. The most hype Butch got is when we returned to a bowl after time off. It really hyped the program until all of the 2017 injuries leading up to the A&M game... thoughts?
Click to expand...
Am I detecting a hint of optimism or truth in your post? Watch your back brother cause it’s dangerous here sometimes!
 
#27
#27
volmandu said:
Well, there is a thread on optimism for 2020 so I might as well post the pessimism one.

The biggest concern I have for 2020 is we are not getting any better in few key positions to be better than 6-6 or 7-5.


a) Wide Receiver Playmakers: We will be losing a lot of starters and depth on WR. With starters Juan Jennings and Callaway gone and depth guys Byrd and Jordan Murphy (transfer) gone too we will primarily rely on Josh Palmer, Brandon Johnson, Remmel Keyton and Cedric Tillman. Now, Palmer is good to get open but drops a lot of passes. He has atleast dropped to easy TDs this season already. Keyton hasn't done much and Brandon Johnson has been quiet last year and this. Deangilo Gibbs is a converted WR and Cedric Tillman is a project. Tennessee currently does not have immediately contributor kind of recruit committed for 2020. Passing game will be a big worry.

b) ILB Depth: With Bituli graduating and 3 ILBs leaving team (Ignot, Reid and Banks), depth at ILB will become a deep concern in 2020. So for we only have Henry T as a contributor at that position for 2020. May be Crouch will slide into inside position but that still leaves us with two guys. Aaron Beasly is new and unproven, Salon Page was overtaken by Aaron Beasly and Banks so there we go. JJ Petersen is yet to show up and has been underachiever so far. To add to misery Tennessee does not have a highly touted commit for that position. Savell Smalls is gone and Swell is unlikely to come. We will have two good starting ILBs in Henry T and Crouch but with no depth we will be susceptible and suck in late games.

c) OLB/DE Playmakers : We already are really horrible at pass rush and will lose WGWTFA Taylor. Roman Harrison looks promising but behind that its almost no one of impact. Kevon Bennet and Deandre Johnson have been mostly average.. filler materials but nothing so far shown to rush QBs. Now, few good commits here with BJ Obijulari and some good targets (Hardy etc) but how ready they will be as freshman in SEC. We really do not have any pass rush and do not see it improving soon.

d) DL Quality: This could go either way. We have some good talent there on paper. With Solomon potentially coming back and all the guys from this year getting SEC experience we may get better but again just one injury to Gooden and we look lost this year. My guess is we will be a middle of the pack SEC team in terms of DL play. Not elite but much better than this year.

e) QB concerns: Now the best situation for us is Brian Maurer keeps his job, balls out and does good behind an improved O-line and rushing attack. However, what if Brian Maurer isn't the guy ? We just have small sample size. We could be looking at a new QB with bunch of new WRs in place with second game of the season against Oklahoma. Remember, JG was supposed to take that next step (or so was the team) but how badly that went for us ? What if Harrison Bailey bails out on us or what if he is not ready ? Again, Maurer can take make us middle of the pack (6-6 or 7-5) but nothing shown yet that he can be elite (I did love some flashes from him against GA though).

Few Goods:

O-line will definitely improve (or should atleast in theory) with such talent and not losing much. I expect running game to be better with Gray as sophomore and Chandler most likely returning behind a better line.
I expect secondary to be better and play like veterans. Some depth concerns but will be better next year over all.

Given all this, do you really expect us to do more than Bowling (7-5) in Jeremy Pruitt's third year ? Do you expect us to be competitive against rivals Georgia, Florida and Bama ?(atleast we consider them rivals but given how we have lost to Candy 6 out of 8 tries may be we should change the level) ..

Here is my bottom line:

2020 is a rebuild regardless of who is at helm. Would you be comfortable with a guy who is rebuilding again in year 3 or a new guy ?
Click to expand...
You’ve got to be kidding....you wanna start all over AGAIN??? And set the program back yet again? No, no new guy, no new staff, no starting over again.
 
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#28
#28
volmandu said:
Well, there is a thread on optimism for 2020 so I might as well post the pessimism one.

The biggest concern I have for 2020 is we are not getting any better in few key positions to be better than 6-6 or 7-5.


a) Wide Receiver Playmakers: We will be losing a lot of starters and depth on WR. With starters Juan Jennings and Callaway gone and depth guys Byrd and Jordan Murphy (transfer) gone too we will primarily rely on Josh Palmer, Brandon Johnson, Remmel Keyton and Cedric Tillman. Now, Palmer is good to get open but drops a lot of passes. He has atleast dropped to easy TDs this season already. Keyton hasn't done much and Brandon Johnson has been quiet last year and this. Deangilo Gibbs is a converted WR and Cedric Tillman is a project. Tennessee currently does not have immediately contributor kind of recruit committed for 2020. Passing game will be a big worry.

b) ILB Depth: With Bituli graduating and 3 ILBs leaving team (Ignot, Reid and Banks), depth at ILB will become a deep concern in 2020. So for we only have Henry T as a contributor at that position for 2020. May be Crouch will slide into inside position but that still leaves us with two guys. Aaron Beasly is new and unproven, Salon Page was overtaken by Aaron Beasly and Banks so there we go. JJ Petersen is yet to show up and has been underachiever so far. To add to misery Tennessee does not have a highly touted commit for that position. Savell Smalls is gone and Swell is unlikely to come. We will have two good starting ILBs in Henry T and Crouch but with no depth we will be susceptible and suck in late games.

c) OLB/DE Playmakers : We already are really horrible at pass rush and will lose WGWTFA Taylor. Roman Harrison looks promising but behind that its almost no one of impact. Kevon Bennet and Deandre Johnson have been mostly average.. filler materials but nothing so far shown to rush QBs. Now, few good commits here with BJ Obijulari and some good targets (Hardy etc) but how ready they will be as freshman in SEC. We really do not have any pass rush and do not see it improving soon.

d) DL Quality: This could go either way. We have some good talent there on paper. With Solomon potentially coming back and all the guys from this year getting SEC experience we may get better but again just one injury to Gooden and we look lost this year. My guess is we will be a middle of the pack SEC team in terms of DL play. Not elite but much better than this year.

e) QB concerns: Now the best situation for us is Brian Maurer keeps his job, balls out and does good behind an improved O-line and rushing attack. However, what if Brian Maurer isn't the guy ? We just have small sample size. We could be looking at a new QB with bunch of new WRs in place with second game of the season against Oklahoma. Remember, JG was supposed to take that next step (or so was the team) but how badly that went for us ? What if Harrison Bailey bails out on us or what if he is not ready ? Again, Maurer can take make us middle of the pack (6-6 or 7-5) but nothing shown yet that he can be elite (I did love some flashes from him against GA though).

Few Goods:

O-line will definitely improve (or should atleast in theory) with such talent and not losing much. I expect running game to be better with Gray as sophomore and Chandler most likely returning behind a better line.
I expect secondary to be better and play like veterans. Some depth concerns but will be better next year over all.

Given all this, do you really expect us to do more than Bowling (7-5) in Jeremy Pruitt's third year ? Do you expect us to be competitive against rivals Georgia, Florida and Bama ?(atleast we consider them rivals but given how we have lost to Candy 6 out of 8 tries may be we should change the level) ..

Here is my bottom line:

2020 is a rebuild regardless of who is at helm. Would you be comfortable with a guy who is rebuilding again in year 3 or a new guy ?
Click to expand...

Op...the no1 reason to not be optimistic next year is that fulmer has guaranteed us another season of Pruitt.
 
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#30
#30
I dont see how Pruitt survives a 1-11 or 2-10 season..which is where we are headed right now. MAYBE things change around this weekend but I'm not holding my breath.
 
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#31
#31
volmandu said:
Well, there is a thread on optimism for 2020 so I might as well post the pessimism one.

The biggest concern I have for 2020 is we are not getting any better in few key positions to be better than 6-6 or 7-5.


a) Wide Receiver Playmakers: We will be losing a lot of starters and depth on WR. With starters Juan Jennings and Callaway gone and depth guys Byrd and Jordan Murphy (transfer) gone too we will primarily rely on Josh Palmer, Brandon Johnson, Remmel Keyton and Cedric Tillman. Now, Palmer is good to get open but drops a lot of passes. He has atleast dropped to easy TDs this season already. Keyton hasn't done much and Brandon Johnson has been quiet last year and this. Deangilo Gibbs is a converted WR and Cedric Tillman is a project. Tennessee currently does not have immediately contributor kind of recruit committed for 2020. Passing game will be a big worry.

b) ILB Depth: With Bituli graduating and 3 ILBs leaving team (Ignot, Reid and Banks), depth at ILB will become a deep concern in 2020. So for we only have Henry T as a contributor at that position for 2020. May be Crouch will slide into inside position but that still leaves us with two guys. Aaron Beasly is new and unproven, Salon Page was overtaken by Aaron Beasly and Banks so there we go. JJ Petersen is yet to show up and has been underachiever so far. To add to misery Tennessee does not have a highly touted commit for that position. Savell Smalls is gone and Swell is unlikely to come. We will have two good starting ILBs in Henry T and Crouch but with no depth we will be susceptible and suck in late games.

c) OLB/DE Playmakers : We already are really horrible at pass rush and will lose WGWTFA Taylor. Roman Harrison looks promising but behind that its almost no one of impact. Kevon Bennet and Deandre Johnson have been mostly average.. filler materials but nothing so far shown to rush QBs. Now, few good commits here with BJ Obijulari and some good targets (Hardy etc) but how ready they will be as freshman in SEC. We really do not have any pass rush and do not see it improving soon.

d) DL Quality: This could go either way. We have some good talent there on paper. With Solomon potentially coming back and all the guys from this year getting SEC experience we may get better but again just one injury to Gooden and we look lost this year. My guess is we will be a middle of the pack SEC team in terms of DL play. Not elite but much better than this year.

e) QB concerns: Now the best situation for us is Brian Maurer keeps his job, balls out and does good behind an improved O-line and rushing attack. However, what if Brian Maurer isn't the guy ? We just have small sample size. We could be looking at a new QB with bunch of new WRs in place with second game of the season against Oklahoma. Remember, JG was supposed to take that next step (or so was the team) but how badly that went for us ? What if Harrison Bailey bails out on us or what if he is not ready ? Again, Maurer can take make us middle of the pack (6-6 or 7-5) but nothing shown yet that he can be elite (I did love some flashes from him against GA though).

Few Goods:

O-line will definitely improve (or should atleast in theory) with such talent and not losing much. I expect running game to be better with Gray as sophomore and Chandler most likely returning behind a better line.
I expect secondary to be better and play like veterans. Some depth concerns but will be better next year over all.

Given all this, do you really expect us to do more than Bowling (7-5) in Jeremy Pruitt's third year ? Do you expect us to be competitive against rivals Georgia, Florida and Bama ?(atleast we consider them rivals but given how we have lost to Candy 6 out of 8 tries may be we should change the level) ..

Here is my bottom line:

2020 is a rebuild regardless of who is at helm. Would you be comfortable with a guy who is rebuilding again in year 3 or a new guy ?
Click to expand...

A rebuild? But I thought according to many that Butches recruits were not any good. Butch did have some good recruits that are still here, jennings, Callaway, Trey Smith to name a few. I don't understand a rebuild in 2020. Maybe I am misunderstanding rebuild. To me rebuild is you lose a lot of good players on a successful team and the younger ones currently on the team are not as good as they are. Pruitt is just starting, I wouldn'd call it a rebuild. 2020 will be his 3rd recruiting class, or you could say actually his 2nd full recruiting class. He is just getting started. And to me a rebuild is you have a succesful season and lose a lot of the talent, we have not as of yet had a successful season.
 
#32
#32
Vol_from_86 said:
You left Crouch out of the OLB discussion and you left Simmons out of the DL discussion. Big mistakes IMO
Click to expand...

I included Crouch in ILB discussion. Can't have him play both. Without Crouch, we will only have Henry T playing ILB. As for Simmons, he has yet shown nothing to even be in rotation. He is young so will take time. Hence i said 'We have some good talent there on paper". Also overall I do not list DL as a big concern. I think and stated that we will be a middle of the pack team regarding DL in SEC.
 
#34
#34
Why? Just... Why? Can't even just be pessimistic about the current season? We HAVE to start being pessimists about next season already? SMH no wonder nothing gets fixed.
 
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#35
#35
FLVOL_79 said:
I dont see how Pruitt survives a 1-11 or 2-10 season..which is where we are headed right now. MAYBE things change around this weekend but I'm not holding my breath.
Click to expand...
I don't think Jeremy Pruitt should get another season if Tennessee goes 1-11 or 2-10. To me that would be rewarding disaster!
 
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#36
#36
cgrish said:
A rebuild? But I thought according to many that Butches recruits were not any good. Butch did have some good recruits that are still here, jennings, Callaway, Trey Smith to name a few. I don't understand a rebuild in 2020. Maybe I am misunderstanding rebuild. To me rebuild is you lose a lot of good players on a successful team and the younger ones currently on the team are not as good as they are. Pruitt is just starting, I wouldn'd call it a rebuild. 2020 will be his 3rd recruiting class, or you could say actually his 2nd full recruiting class. He is just getting started. And to me a rebuild is you have a succesful season and lose a lot of the talent, we have not as of yet had a successful season.
Click to expand...

Rebuild in sense of starting from scratch AGAIN. In year 3 he should have a lot of upper clansmen playing and most issues on depth negated. Looks like his year three will look at a lot like year 1. Rebuild doesn't have to be after successful build only. It can be a rebuild after shi**y first go. Pruitt's first attempt to build looks shi**y. In year three his cupboard is going to be just as bare as he found it.
 
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#39
#39
So now we are building threads to try and justify a coaching change because we will be rebuilding again? I guess the freshman, sophomores and juniors are just sitting on their collective hands. Even rebuilding in the same system with some players with knowledge is far better than starting completely from scratch. That would just be setting the next coach up for failure with this crowd.
 
#42
#42
JoAllan said:
Did Tennessee beat Kentucky and Auburn last year?

If they did, then it’s “possible” Tennessee (with the roster they have) could beat “some” teams.....even teams who are “better” than Tennessee.

I’m not saying Tennessee will beat anyone. I’m just saying.....the myth, that Tennessee needs more and better players to win.....is a LIE, and one that Tennessee has disproven.

Surely Tennessee needs better players to win say 9 games or more, and to compete with Bama, Georgia, ect. But they do not need anything but execution, discipline, motivation, and to not make mistakes, to beat many teams.
Click to expand...

You are aware I made no comment on any of this. I just pointed out that writing "reasons for pessimism" that are entirely about the roster - then following it up with that conclusion is totally illogical. "Based on the above roster points, 2020 will be a rebuild, unless you change coaches." See how stupid that sounds?
 
#43
#43
HearForGrumors said:
You are aware I made no comment on any of this. I just pointed out that writing "reasons for pessimism" that are entirely about the roster - then following it up with that conclusion is totally illogical. "Based on the above roster points, 2020 will be a rebuild, unless you change coaches." See how stupid that sounds?
Click to expand...

I got your comment.

However, there are numerous comments stating that change cannot happen until Pruitt (or basically anyone) recruits and lands a bunch of “their” players.

To win, Tennessee doesn’t need any new recruit......not even one. Sure it would help and make winning easier. However if Tennessee has shown they “can” do it, then it can be replicated.......it just isn’t.
 
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#45
#45
One thing I don't understand is why many people think the record from last year has anything to do with what will happen the following season. Sure you loose some skilled players at one spot. Maybe someone new steps in and fills the spot. Heck they may even be better. I remember when I was a Sophomore. We had a pretty good baseball team. We lost our best Pitcher, our Shortstop and one of our best hitters. Everyone said we would be hurting next year. Next year rolls around and we actually had a better team. Many times one year to the next doesn't have that much to do with each other. If you only look at the record we were better last year. We are not were I thought we would be this year. I learned not to worry about next years record until next year is over. You will only drive yourself crazy with the what ifs. JMHO
 
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#46
#46
volmandu said:
Well, there is a thread on optimism for 2020 so I might as well post the pessimism one.

The biggest concern I have for 2020 is we are not getting any better in few key positions to be better than 6-6 or 7-5.


a) Wide Receiver Playmakers: We will be losing a lot of starters and depth on WR. With starters Juan Jennings and Callaway gone and depth guys Byrd and Jordan Murphy (transfer) gone too we will primarily rely on Josh Palmer, Brandon Johnson, Remmel Keyton and Cedric Tillman. Now, Palmer is good to get open but drops a lot of passes. He has atleast dropped two easy TDs this season already. Keyton hasn't done much and Brandon Johnson has been quiet last year and last year. Deangilo Gibbs is a converted WR and Cedric Tillman is a project. Tennessee currently does not have immediate contributor kind of recruit committed for 2020. Passing game will be a big worry.

b) ILB Depth: With Bituli graduating and 3 ILBs leaving team (Ignot, Reid and Banks), depth at ILB will become a deep concern in 2020. So far we only have Henry T as a contributor at that position for 2020. May be Crouch will slide into inside position but that still leaves us with two guys. Aaron Beasly is new and unproven, Salon Page was overtaken by unproven Aaron Beasly so there we go. JJ Petersen is yet to show up and has been underachiever so far. To add to misery Tennessee does not have a highly touted commit for that position. Sewell Smalls is gone and Noah Swell is unlikely to come. We will have two good starting ILBs in Henry T and Crouch but with no depth we will be susceptible and suck in late games.

c) OLB/DE Playmakers : We already are really horrible at pass rush and will lose WGWTFA Taylor. Roman Harrison looks promising but behind that its almost no one of impact. Kevon Bennet and Deandre Johnson have been mostly average.. filler materials but nothing so far shown to rush QBs. Now, few good commits here with BJ Obijulari and some good targets (Hardy etc) but how ready they will be as freshman in SEC. We really do not have any pass rush and do not see it improving soon.

d) DL Quality: This could go either way. We have some good talent there on paper. With Solomon potentially coming back and all the guys from this year getting SEC experience we may get better but again just one injury to Gooden and we look lost this year. My guess is we will be a middle of the pack SEC team in terms of DL play. Not elite but much better than this year.

e) QB concerns: Now the best situation for us is Brian Maurer keeps his job, balls out and does good behind an improved O-line and rushing attack. However, what if Brian Maurer isn't the guy ? We just have small sample size. We could be looking at a new QB with bunch of new WRs in place with second game of the season against Oklahoma. Remember, JG was supposed to take that next step (or so was the team) but how badly that went for us ? What if Harrison Bailey bails out on us or what if he is not ready ? Again, Maurer can take make us middle of the pack (6-6 or 7-5) but nothing shown yet that he can be elite (I did love some flashes from him against GA though).

Few Goods:

O-line will definitely improve (or should atleast in theory) with such talent and not losing much. I expect running game to be better with Gray as sophomore and Chandler most likely returning behind a better line.
I expect secondary to be better and play like veterans. Some depth concerns but will be better next year over all.

Given all this, do you really expect us to do more than Bowling (7-5) in Jeremy Pruitt's third year ? Do you expect us to be competitive against rivals Georgia, Florida and Bama ?(atleast we consider them rivals but given how we have lost to Candy 6 out of 8 tries may be we should change the level) ..

Here is my bottom line:

2020 is a rebuild regardless of who is at helm. Would you be comfortable with a guy who is rebuilding again in year 3 or a new guy ?
Click to expand...

Haven’t you heard, this is a 4-5 year rebuild. The longest rebuild in the history of college football with a program with $100+mil revenue.
 
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#49
#49
"Rebuild", replacing old players with new players, coaching up the new players to play with your teams schemes, in short every coach-every program-every season, is in a rebuild, or, every year in NCAA football, every team gets new players, says goodbye to old players, and starts coaching up the new player to play with the team. The term "Rebuilding year" is mostly BS, used by sub-par coaches and programs to gain cover, in the hope that what they are doing (or not doing) doesn't come to light, until after they get a contract extension and/or raise.
"Rebuilding"= start coaching
 
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