Ray Mears Over John Mauer

[vegasvolfan]

So, I was listening to Doug Matthews (I think) and a gentleman called in and asked Doug who they believe are the biggest names are when it comes to Tennessee Basketball and was putting Barnes’ name up there and Devoe. Doug went on to name a few guys, excluded Devoe... but I don’t believe John Mauer was mentioned. I don’t ever hear him mentioned and yet he had the highest winning percentage of all coaches and coached at Tennessee for 8 years. In that time he went to quarterfinals of NIT which was the NCAAT of the time and won two SECCs. Mears was there nearly twice that long and only won 3 SECCs. Mears has 7 twenty win seasons in those fifteen years where John had 5 in 8. While I understand there are many reasons Mears meant so much to UT Basketball, I am curious why I (possibly we?) never hear about Mauer.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

So, I was listening to Doug Matthews (I think) and a gentleman called in and asked Doug who they believe are the biggest names are when it comes to Tennessee Basketball and was putting Barnes’ name up there and Devoe. Doug went on to name a few guys, but I don’t believe John Mauer was mentioned. I don’t ever hear him mentioned and yet he had the highest winning percentage of all coaches and coached at Tennessee for 8 years. In that time he went to quarterfinals of NIT which was the NCAAT of the time and won two SECCs. Mears was there nearly twice that long and only won 3 SECCs. Mears has 7 twenty win seasons in those fifteen years where John had 5 in 8. While I understand there are many reasons Mears meant so much to UT Basketball, I am curious why I (possibly we?) never hear about Mauer.

The greatest era in TN basketball is the mid 1930s into the 1940s. Unfortunately much of that history isn't well documented.

Mears took over a broken program and pretty much built it into a winner. Mauer took over a very good program.

TN didn't have a 20 win season until after Mauer left.

Mears overlapped with some guy named Adolph Rupp. He might have had a few more SEC championships if Kentucky had a different coach at that time.

Mears finished 1st, 2nd, or 3rd a boat load of seasons. He never had a losing record... 13-11 in year 1 of the rebuild.
1st 3x
2nd 8x
3rd 2x
5th 1x
7th 1x (year 1, only time in 15 years not in the upper half of the SEC)

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

The first number is their age when hired:

29 Zora Clevenger (.781)(1911-1916)
37 John Mauer (.759)(1938-1947)
37 Ray Mears (.713)(1962-1977)
33 Blair Gullian (.712)(1935-1938)
54 Jerry Green (.712)(1997-2001)
45 Bruce Pearl (.704)(2005-2011)
00 John Bender (.659)(1916-1921)
00 Mark Banks (.612)(1921-1926)
35 Emmett Lowery (.606)(1947-1958)
40 Cuonzo Martin (.606)(2011-2014)
37 Don Devoe (.598)(1978-1989)
61 Rick Barnes (.569)(2015-2018)
00 WH Britton (.523)(1926-1935)
38 Buzz Peterson (.508)(2001-2005)
44 Donnie Tyndall (.500)(2014-2015)
00 Alex Stone (.437)(1910-1911)
37 Kevin O'Neill (.434)(1994-1997)
45 Wade Houston (.419)(1989-1994)
49 Cliff Wettig (.407)(1977-1978)
42 John Sines (.366)(1958-1962)
00 RH Fitzgerald (.250)(1917-1919)

 

[The Dog]

Probably because Mauer also was the head coach of the baseball team, at least for one year and was also Neylands DB coach for a couple of years and Basketball just wasn't that big of deal, in Tennessee during that time. Maybe if he had won one of those NITs it would have changed things and we would be calling him the father/coach of Tennessee basketball, but he didn't and Mears made UT relevant nationally. So Mears gets those accolades instead. Jmo

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I think that Barnes' WP is now up to 59% and he's about to catch Devoe.

 

[The Dog]

TGO, I wonder what the best winning % for one season is ? Pretty sure, Bruce has the most wins for one season, 33(I think)

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

TGO, I wonder what the best winning % for one season is ? Pretty sure, Bruce has the most wins for one season, 33(I think)

Tennessee Volunteers Index | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

1915-16
Wonder if they'd cut the bottom out of the peach baskets by then.

Actually, I would like to know what year the basketball was put into play by opponents after made baskets instead of having a jump ball after each score. That might have been the biggest rule change ever.

Edit: the jump ball after every score ended after the 1936-37 season.

http://www.orangehoops.org/NCAA/NCAA Rule Changes.htm

Interesting. Through 1971 when a player was fouled, they took just one free throw through the oppositions first 6 fouls each half and then got a "bonus" (one plus one) beginning with the 7th foul.

Rules History

Check out the pick when the post holding up the goal was on the court. I never knew why the "top of the key" had that name until today.

 

[njvols]

The first number is their age when hired:

29 Zora Clevenger (.781)(1911-1916)
37 John Mauer (.759)(1938-1947)
37 Ray Mears (.713)(1962-1977)
33 Blair Gullian (.712)(1935-1938)
54 Jerry Green (.712)(1997-2001)
45 Bruce Pearl (.704)(2005-2011)
00 John Bender (.659)(1916-1921)
00 Mark Banks (.612)(1921-1926)
35 Emmett Lowery (.606)(1947-1958)
40 Cuonzo Martin (.606)(2011-2014)
37 Don Devoe (.598)(1978-1989)
61 Rick Barnes (.569)(2015-2018)
00 WH Britton (.523)(1926-1935)
38 Buzz Peterson (.508)(2001-2005)
44 Donnie Tyndall (.500)(2014-2015)
00 Alex Stone (.437)(1910-1911)
37 Kevin O'Neill (.434)(1994-1997)
45 Wade Houston (.419)(1989-1994)
49 Cliff Wettig (.407)(1977-1978)
42 John Sines (.366)(1958-1962)
00 RH Fitzgerald (.250)(1917-1919)

The weird thing about these coaches and records is we've not had any back to back coaching success other than Meyers/Devoe. We went thru Houston and O'neil to get to Green who ran a sketchy program but won some, then threw a gutter ball with Peterson, and got to Pearl. I'd contend that the make up is there for UT to be traditionally strong in bball, because it's not like we're UGA or Bama who very rarely have stretches of dominance. We have found ourselves contending in about every decade for a few years. If Barnes can stay for another 5-7 years, we'll have built ourselves as a brand. At this point, I'd think Rob Lanier could be the answer to just wait it out to be the next transition to give us continuation of Barnes legacy?

 

[vegasvolfan]

To your point, other than the 70s and 90s, we have performed very respectsbly in each decade. Just didn’t go very deep.

NCAA Tournament Elite Eight
2010


NCAA Tournament Sweet Sixteen
1967, 1981, 2000, 2007, 2008, 2010, 201

4NCAA Tournament Round of 32
1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1999, 2000, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2014, 2018

NCAA Tournament appearances
1967, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1989, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2014, 2018

 

[vegasvolfan]

Tennessee Volunteers Index | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

1915-16
Wonder if they'd cut the bottom out of the peach baskets by then.

Actually, I would like to know what year the basketball was put into play by opponents after made baskets instead of having a jump ball after each score. That might have been the biggest rule change ever.

Edit: the jump ball after every score ended after the 1936-37 season.

http://www.orangehoops.org/NCAA/NCAA Rule Changes.htm

Interesting. Through 1971 when a player was fouled, they took just one free throw through the oppositions first 6 fouls each half and then got a "bonus" (one plus one) beginning with the 7th foul.

Rules History

Check out the pick when the post holding up the goal was on the court. I never knew why the "top of the key" had that name until today.

Definitely some interesting stuff! Even though the game was different it is hard to say that Mauer would not have done just as well!

 

[wmcovol]

The weird thing about these coaches and records is we've not had any back to back coaching success other than Meyers/Devoe. We went thru Houston and O'neil to get to Green who ran a sketchy program but won some, then threw a gutter ball with Peterson, and got to Pearl. I'd contend that the make up is there for UT to be traditionally strong in bball, because it's not like we're UGA or Bama who very rarely have stretches of dominance. We have found ourselves contending in about every decade for a few years. If Barnes can stay for another 5-7 years, we'll have built ourselves as a brand. At this point, I'd think Rob Lanier could be the answer to just wait it out to be the next transition to give us continuation of Barnes legacy?

Look on the bright side, of the last 3 coaches Tennessee has had that has been here 3 or more seasons, all have won a SEC championship or been to a Sweet 16. All have occurred in the last 10 years too! The program can win and win big if it has a good coach.

 

[vegasvolfan]

The greatest era in TN basketball is the mid 1930s into the 1940s. Unfortunately much of that history isn't well documented.

Mears took over a broken program and pretty much built it into a winner. Mauer took over a very good program.

TN didn't have a 20 win season until after Mauer left.

Mears overlapped with some guy named Adolph Rupp. He might have had a few more SEC championships if Kentucky had a different coach at that time.

Mears finished 1st, 2nd, or 3rd a boat load of seasons. He never had a losing record... 13-11 in year 1 of the rebuild.
1st 3x
2nd 8x
3rd 2x
5th 1x
7th 1x (year 1, only time in 15 years not in the upper half of the SEC)

Good stuff... My response below!

Actually Mauer’s entire tenure was during Rupp’s career which can’t be said for Mears.

Funny Mauer coached for Kentucky before coming to TN.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Joe B was pretty good as well. 8 regular season SEC championships in 13 seasons. Plus a natty, 2 championship games, 3 FFs, and 6 EEs.

 

[scvol98]

Mears was 15-15 against UK. Now do you understand?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Mears, Mauer, and Pearl were all great in their era. It's really impossible to compare them with so many different rules and the way the NCAAT evolved.

Only one team per conference went to the NCAAT for more than half of Mears' career. TN tied for the 1971-72 SEC Championship and didn't get the invitation to the NCAAT. The team was so disappointed that they voted to not accept the 1972 NIT bid.

Mears had to quit at the height of his career. He was only about 50 years old. Hard to say how successful he would have been had he coached another 20 years and without Stu Aberdeen and with a shot clock. Likewise, how would no shot clock have effected Pearl... or being a Jewish feller coaching in the pre-integrated era.

 

[cardvolfan]

The weird thing about these coaches and records is we've not had any back to back coaching success other than Meyers/Devoe. We went thru Houston and O'neil to get to Green who ran a sketchy program but won some, then threw a gutter ball with Peterson, and got to Pearl. I'd contend that the make up is there for UT to be traditionally strong in bball, because it's not like we're UGA or Bama who very rarely have stretches of dominance. We have found ourselves contending in about every decade for a few years. If Barnes can stay for another 5-7 years, we'll have built ourselves as a brand. At this point, I'd think Rob Lanier could be the answer to just wait it out to be the next transition to give us continuation of Barnes legacy?

Winning percentages don't always correlate to who the best are. There are so many things that affect percentages. O'Neil had a terrible record, but he was trying to clean up Houston's mess, and it was a huge mess. O'Neil was a great recruiter and if not for that, Jerry Green would never have had his success. Unfortunately, AD Dickey and O'Neil didn't get along and he left. So, context is huge when determining the abilities of a coach.

 

[StarRaider]

Mears had to quit at the height of his career. He was only about 50 years old.

Mears was 35 when he came to Big Orange Country. I never realized how young he was. My freshman year was 77-78.

 

[walkenvol]

Winning percentages don't always correlate to who the best are. There are so many things that affect percentages. O'Neil had a terrible record, but he was trying to clean up Houston's mess, and it was a huge mess. O'Neil was a great recruiter and if not for that, Jerry Green would never have had his success. Unfortunately, AD Dickey and O'Neil didn't get along and he left. So, context is huge when determining the abilities of a coach.

Wasn't just Dickey and O'Neal who didn't get along....O'Neal rubbed most everyone in the UT system the wrong way. He was so foul mouthed during the games that the broadcasts had to be careful not to get their audio equipment too close and it didn't have to be very close as he spewed profanity. O'Neal couldn't stick at Arizona either as I recall? The guy worked really hard at recruiting but I don't think he could have kept the guys he signed - he was simply too abrasive.

 

[cardvolfan]

Wasn't just Dickey and O'Neal who didn't get along....O'Neal rubbed most everyone in the UT system the wrong way. He was so foul mouthed during the games that the broadcasts had to be careful not to get their audio equipment too close and it didn't have to be very close as he spewed profanity. O'Neal couldn't stick at Arizona either as I recall? The guy worked really hard at recruiting but I don't think he could have kept the guys he signed - he was simply too abrasive.

He was very abrasive and seemed to tick a lot of people off. He had a foul mouth, but so did Devoe.

 

[cardvolfan]

Tennessee Volunteers Index | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

1915-16
Wonder if they'd cut the bottom out of the peach baskets by then.

Actually, I would like to know what year the basketball was put into play by opponents after made baskets instead of having a jump ball after each score. That might have been the biggest rule change ever.

Edit: the jump ball after every score ended after the 1936-37 season.

http://www.orangehoops.org/NCAA/NCAA Rule Changes.htm

Interesting. Through 1971 when a player was fouled, they took just one free throw through the oppositions first 6 fouls each half and then got a "bonus" (one plus one) beginning with the 7th foul.

Rules History

Check out the pick when the post holding up the goal was on the court. I never knew why the "top of the key" had that name until today.

Got one bonus free throw plus possession, correct?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Got one bonus free throw plus possession, correct?

No, I don't think the team fouled got a free throw AND possession. They just got a single free throw the first 6 times fouled each half.

It's weird. It seems that the player fouled used to go to the free throw line on EVERY foul (maybe not an offensive, player control foul though). The first 6 times each half, the player fouled took only one free throw. Then starting with the 7th foul the player fouled received a "bonus" or the one-plus-one. It wasn't until around 1990 that players got 2 free throws beginning with the 10th foul.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Thru the 1971-72 season, players only took one foul shot on the first 6 fouls each half. Now the ball is taken out of bounds on the first 6 fouls. Fouls 7-9 have always been the same (one-plus-one). Around 1990 the one-plus-one on the 10th foul and beyond was replaced with 2 foul shots.

Then starting in 1972-73:
"The free throw on the common foul for the first six personal fouls in a half is eliminated."

The rule was on "common fouls". So being fouled in the act of shooting has probably always been 2 free throws.

The NBA and/or ABA also had weird treatment. There was something like 3 shots to make 2. If the 1st or 2nd shot was missed, the free throw shooter got a 3rd attempt.

Points were really hard to come by back then and a player's free throw percentage was very important. Shaq would have been a huge liability.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

The benches and rotations were much shorter. Players tried very hard not to foul, especially the starters, because fouling out was a huge punishment. Teams typically played 6 or 7 in games. There was no shot clock. Possessions lasted a minute or 2 or 3. (Or in the case of Temple v TN in the 1972 Volunteer Classic, 20 minutes if possible... TN 11, Temple 6 (final score)). Players could/would go 38-40 minutes because there wasn't as much up and down the court play. Plus there were fewer stoppages and the game went quicker. Zone defenses were used much more. Refs didn't allow nearly as much contact.

 

[DeepSpringsVol]

Mears as mentioned earlier found ways to go toe to toe with Kentucky in its best stretch under a racist coach. Coach Mears was more than a basketball coach. He was an innovator and credited with changing the attention of Tennessee basketball and making games more of an entertainment value. Coach Mears brought people into the Stokely Athletic arena not just by quality basketball but people rode unicycles, juggled etc.... That stuff is common place nowadays but not then. Coach Mears filled up Seats so much it was outgrown so the plans for Thompson Boling Arena went in to effect.


Yeah Id say Ray Mears is super influential to Tennessee basketball past and the present.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Mears as mentioned earlier found ways to go toe to toe with Kentucky in its best stretch under a racist coach. Coach Mears was more than a basketball coach. He was an innovator and credited with changing the attention of Tennessee basketball and making games more of an entertainment value. Coach Mears brought people into the Stokely Athletic arena not just by quality basketball but people rode unicycles, juggled etc.... That stuff is common place nowadays but not then. Coach Mears filled up Seats so much it was outgrown so the plans for Thompson Boling Arena went in to effect.


Yeah Id say Ray Mears is super influential to Tennessee basketball past and the present.

Mears was a super basketball coach who could out coach any coach he played. In some ways, he was a lot like Barnes as coaching xs ns os go. However, he was a show man who could/would create an atmosphere of pure excitement. When his teams hit the floor, pregame show, the electricity ran through the crowd. It was amazing how he could control the players' and fans' minds. His problem was controlling his own mind. If not for those problems, he wold have been one. if not the best coach in the Hall of Fame.