Random thoughts on Coaches !!

[JC61]

Gave you a like because you are speaking the truth.

However, you left out 4 major points about Saban that CBJ has never done with any program--4 NCs....and 1 when at LSU to PROVE he will get you there because he already has done that...

The difference here is that Saban could possibly and probably should have 6 NCs since coming to Bama....

CBJ deserves 2 more years to have a fair and reasonable time of evaluation.

Meyer, Saban, and Malzhan all have taken their respective programs into the NC game on multiple occasions....

Hairball will get Michigan there sooner and not later....demonstrating that ability in the past by getting a pathetic 49 franchise into the SB in just a few short years in the NFL...

When stacked up against all of those facts--it is completely reasonable to look at the SCe game as a legitimate concern generating doubts about CBJ's ability to compete with those guys...

To be honest...Malzahn did it once and had 2 very subpar years following it.

Hard to compare almost everyone w/ Saban...he is the best....but didn't start that way....he had to learn and grow...

1st year SEC - loses to unranked UAB and Arkansas - LSU was ranked for that one.

2nd year SEC - loses to an average UM team...at home

3rd year SEC - loses to VT, AU, UA, Ark...all while ranked higher execpt UA...oh, and Texas in the bowl game

4th year SEC - gets beat, at home, by an unranked Zook's UF...while being ranked. Recovered nicely and won the NC....eventhough USC was ranked #1 and didn't get a shot.

5th year SEC - loses to lower ranked AU at home, UGA and Iowa

of course it can't happen...but given the same circumstances...I'd love to hear what some of you would have said about him during those first 3 years....and the backslide in the 5th year.

 

[OrangeInKy]

Or how Butch decided to kick a FG instead of going for against OKLAHOMA.


Or why he played Hurd after he was concussed

Or why his 2017 recruiting is an epic letdown

Or why Kamara was getting so few touches until Hurd went down

 

[GVol1966]

- 11th ranked USC in 2013
- USC again in 2014; plus bowl win over Iowa (who I think was favored)
- 19th ranked UGA in 2015; plus 12th ranked NWU in the bowl game
- I throw in UF and UGA this year since at least 50% of VN didn't think he'd do it.

That's 5 and 2 maybe's....he's close.

I am not talking about "ranks". I am talking about beating a arguably better team.
Do you actually think any of those were actually 1 of the top 20 teams in the country , I don't , just overrated , just like iUT was being in the top ten at the start of the year.
And if you think UG was beating a better team this year??? You are crazy, they suck .
What it was , beating a team your 21 points better with a Hail Mary !
And Florida they have not beatin anybody, I repeat anybody good !

 

[vol-un-tear]

Randomly I think there needs to be a change and the new AD will initiate that.

 

[BanditVol]

I count 6...

Vandy 2013
Florida 2014
Oklahoma 2015
Florida 2015
Texas A&M 2016
South Carolina 2016

Jones has in fact left 6 wins on the table in 4 years of coaching.

Vandy 2013 is a joke to be on that list. They were in the middle of their second straight 9-3 season, we were in the middle of our third straight 5-7 season. They were ranked. They had a WR who is starting for the Eagles to this day and is their leading WR. They had Franklin as a coach, and even though I hate that d*ckhead, he did beat Urban this year, no? Vandy was also en route to their third consecutive bowl game, which had never happened before in their history.

In short, Vandy was better than us in 2013.

Also, OU and Florida last year were Even. Neither we nor they were favored. Texas AnM this year WAS favored.

Florida in 2014, we were only favored by 2, so not a huge upset.

I agree about USC jr this year, but at most, maybe one of the other games counts as an upset. At most.

 

[BanditVol]

To be honest...Malzahn did it once and had 2 very subpar years following it.

Hard to compare almost everyone w/ Saban...he is the best....but didn't start that way....he had to learn and grow...

1st year SEC - loses to unranked UAB and Arkansas - LSU was ranked for that one.

2nd year SEC - loses to an average UM team...at home

3rd year SEC - loses to VT, AU, UA, Ark...all while ranked higher execpt UA...oh, and Texas in the bowl game

4th year SEC - gets beat, at home, by an unranked Zook's UF...while being ranked. Recovered nicely and won the NC....eventhough USC was ranked #1 and didn't get a shot.

5th year SEC - loses to lower ranked AU at home, UGA and Iowa

of course it can't happen...but given the same circumstances...I'd love to hear what some of you would have said about him during those first 3 years....and the backslide in the 5th year.

The key is that when Saban was at LSU he was recruiting about the way they are now, but since he is at bammer they are recruiting like no one ever has in the history of college football.

There is massive cheating going on in bammer to a scale unprecedented, and that's why saban wins so much. People just excuse that away, but if there is justice in the universe, that POS will get nailed one day. :rock:

 

[tbones0711]

When UK rushes for over 400 yds on your defense it shouldn't be taken lightly. 1st...DKjr went down with injury in the 2nd game of the year. He was responsible for setting the defense and Jumper filled that position due to his understanding of how to set the defense IMO.Now i'm seeing the new wrinkle or more nickelback blitzes,(Gaulden #7). The UK game was DKjr's 2nd game back. The front was well entrenched and played well with starters: Vereen and Barnett outside, Lewis and Vickers at tackle. No drop-off noticed when Phillips came in at tackle. Sutton and Mosely played well on the corners. The rest is the problem....why is Elliot Berry starting ahead of Jumper, McDowell? The supposed leader, DKjr's game has dropped off due to being out injured. No player is getting in position to "seal the edge" or contain the run by forcing the rusher inside.
OC Debord addressed the Knoxville Qtrbck Club the tuesday following the loss to SC and stated "the speed and intensity that we practice is nowhere near the speed we see in live games." It doesn't impact the offense as much as it does the defense. All UT has to depend on is game film and then when you account for the injuries you are actually playing players that have no "LIVE" experience. And although coach Shoop has good intent and knows the direction he wants the defense to take,it's gonna be slow going and one of the reasons UT has been playing from behind. IMO UT doesn't practice in a way that gives the coaches good insight as to what to expect come game time. Add to the mix that our opponents OC's are adjusting beyond as the game continues while UT is adjusting in game to something that has already occurred. A better than average defense is gonna be made up of at least 6-7 players with 2-3 years experience and the other 4-5 would be rotating in and out through out the season gaining valuable actual real game playing time. UT was fortunate to pull out a win against UK IMO. Barring another injury-filled season, UT appears to be on track to contend for the east for the next several years. We need to better recruit,develop our OL and DB's. How well CBJ and staff fare remains to be seen. He's an excellent recruiter and needs to work on motivator,innovater to succeed in the SEC where he's definitely learning as he goes. It's doubtful UT could get a better coach and if that did happen I'd expect a couple of down years due to new systems,etc....it's better in the long run and the short run too to stay with what we have and lend our support and back-off the criticism. CBJ needs to address his sideline demeanor of blessing players out and continually displaying anger....if he can't control himself how can he be expected to control our football program? :twocents:

 

[OriginalCoach]

Comparing buTch to most of those coaches isn't a fair evaluation to begin with.

None of them went to a total dumpster fire with a roster of players that most wouldn't start at Appy state.

Step 1 to becoming a really good program is recruiting and so far buTch has done pretty well on that.

Step 2 is more good recruiting to build up a 2 and 3 deep at all positions so that injuries and giving starters a breather doesn't lower the on field production much.

Step 3 is real game knowledge and experience in all your 2 and 3 deep.

We don't have solid depth at all positions yet.

We certainly don't have real game knowledge and experience in our 2 deep yet BUT many of our Sophs and Freshmen did get lots of knowledge and experience this season because of the massive amounts of injuries unfortunately but it should help us next season and beyond.

As to coaching...ALL coaching staffs make mistakes and say or do things they wish they could do over...even the great staff of nick saTan.

The Hurd/Malone recruiting class was excellent and they keep getting better every year.

The ONLY way all those true freshmen could have played SEC footVol right out of high school WAS because of good coaching.

Bad coaches never could have played as many true freshmen and done better each year like we've done consistently.

That tends to make me think we have some decent coaches. maybe not elite but at least good coaches at most positions.

THINK...When buTch was the only coach that really wanted to take on our dumpster fire our footVol team was a joke that most teams laughed at all the time.

Just a few recruiting classes later almost all the so-called experts had us as pre-season top 10 and some even said if we stayed healthy and got a little luck we might Win the SEC and get a playoff spot.

I honestly expected it to take us 6 or 7 years to be ranked that high and the national experts talking that well about us.

I'm still mad and upset about LAST season because we were so damn close but we were still very young and not experienced enough.

Needless to say I'm really NOT happy about this season so far BUT injuries hit us really HARD on both sides of the ball especially on both lines and that DOES make a big difference especially in the SEC.

No excuse for USCe and I'll never figure that out as long as I live.

Is it true that buTch and all our coaches are crap and really can't teach and coach up our players?

I don't think so...if they couldn't coach then we never could have played so well when we're still forced to play so many true freshmen kids.

I'm not happy with our last 2 seasons but I do understand why most things happened wen we lost.

We can't afford to fire buTch and this staff and even if we could I'd want to see 1 or 2 more seasons of recruiting and coaching before I decided to try to find a better coach and recruiting team and maybe go through another 10 years or longer of total hell and my beloved Vols being laughed at again.

I don't hear anyone laughing at our Vols now and I don't expect we'll be laughed at again for quite some time because even hurt and beat up tis badly, we're still a dangerous Team for most teams in the country.

As to your statement and the pic you have up my friend...That says you don't spread bull shiite but your statement says that you do because IMO what you said is total bull shiite.

VFL...GBO!!!

The UT football program isn't the only one in the history of CFB to have serious problems, both with player quality and recruiting. Oklahoma was in a death spiral before Stoops arrived, granted probably not at the overall level as UT but the same nonetheless.

As for Butch being the only one that stepped in at UT to lead it out of the 'fire', he's done a pretty decent job. I would only disagree that just because it IS CBJ, that only CBJ could have done what has happened as far as the positives of what is going on at UT and the football program. I think many coaches could have done the same.

 

[MikeVol44]

To be honest...Malzahn did it once and had 2 very subpar years following it.

Malzahn was the OC when Cam took AU to the NC....are you going to try and tell me that Chizik was the genius who actually ran the show??? He wore the HC title...but was terrible when Malzahn left and was gone quickly thereafter...

Malzahn left and then came back and prompty took AU to another NC game...which they should have won against FSU.. he's had some down years, but that's the entire problem with running that type of offense....you're going to live and die with the QB....and he doesn't have that elite QB....but he is a proven winner...and has done it before...

I mentioned Saban because the context of this whole thread was centered around the premise that CBJ should be cut some slack for losing to SCe because even elite coaches lose games they should've won..

All I was trying to communicate was that those elite coaches NOW are proven winners....but not perfect....but their history of winning conference and NCs has EARNED them some slack for losing to inferior opponents....

And with all of those stats about Saban--did you forget that LSU went 4-7, 3-8 in the 2 years before Saban arrived...and Saban won the SEC championship in his 2nd year at LSU? And his 4 year record there was 39-13? 5 year record was at 48-16? That's a proven winner....

And CBJ is NOT.....and the SCe loss this year to a team with a QB who should've been in HS after having 2 weeks to prepare should make everyone question his ability to get us to Atlanta and beyond...

Especially since this year's SEC East is arguably the worst it's been in the past 20 years....:salute:

 

[MikeVol44]

The key is that when Saban was at LSU he was recruiting about the way they are now, but since he is at bammer they are recruiting like no one ever has in the history of college football.

There is massive cheating going on in bammer to a scale unprecedented, and that's why saban wins so much. People just excuse that away, but if there is justice in the universe, that POS will get nailed one day. :rock:

PURE horse-pucky written by a sad little man who knows nothing.....and it's always easy to claim they cheat....but Saban is too arrogant to resort to cheating to get players....

They're lining up to play for Saban because they want to win NCs....and punch a ticket into the NFL....

 

[JC61]

I am not talking about "ranks". I am talking about beating a arguably better team.
Do you actually think any of those were actually 1 of the top 20 teams in the country , I don't , just overrated , just like iUT was being in the top ten at the start of the year.
And if you think UG was beating a better team this year??? You are crazy, they suck .
What it was , beating a team your 21 points better with a Hail Mary !
And Florida they have not beatin anybody, I repeat anybody good !

You're right...of course.

well...USC ended up #4, but of course they were over rated.

doubt our fellas were favored over USC in 2014 either...or Iowa, NW, UGA in the past 2 years.

just threw UF and UGA in this year since most on here didn't think we'd win.

I know how this works....team wins...it's because they should and did it in spite of CBJ....team loses...CBJ is the worse coach in major CFB.

so, yeah...I stick to my response. You throw games you think "he" should have won...a few of those are draws IMO....so I throw some "he" shouldn't have...according to rankings, FPI and the opinions of various experts on this board.

 

[JC61]

Malzahn was the OC when Cam took AU to the NC....

And with all of those stats about Saban--did you forget that LSU went 4-7, 3-8 in the 2 years before Saban arrived...and Saban won the SEC championship in his 2nd year at LSU? And his 4 year record there was 39-13? 5 year record was at 48-16? That's a proven winner....

And CBJ is NOT.....and the SCe loss this year to a team with a QB who should've been in HS after having 2 weeks to prepare should make everyone question his ability to get us to Atlanta and beyond...

My points:

1. he was not the HC....he's had one good year as the HC at AU. This year is looking better....but living down here I get an earfull from the Auburn faithful who are fed, freakin' up with Gus.

2. Yes, they had 2 bad years...Dinardo didn't do that bad the first 3 years though....oh, and Saban wasn't a proven commodity...his MSU record isn't that great. Plus, as much as some like to talk about "backing-in"...LSU definitedly backed in to that NC...USC should have been playing as the #1 team....and didn't even get a chance.

Major point of my post was to retort the notion that "great" coaches don't lose games they're supposed to win. Well...even the mighty Saban does...and did so badly during his early years, which are about the same in tenure / experience as our current coach.

I see and agree with problems that many want to discuss; I think he's done a decent job...hope he can get slightly better on game day, but can't say for sure he will. But, what I do prefer in these debates is a little more intellectual honesty and disection of apples to apples, etc. Instead of 100% emotional disdane for Jones.

 

[UTblood4life]

I count 6...

Vandy 2013
Florida 2014
Oklahoma 2015
Florida 2015
Texas A&M 2016
South Carolina 2016

Jones has in fact left 6 wins on the table in 4 years of coaching.

This

 

[Hairy Vols]

Are you aware TN was leading most of those games? Then the wrong decision of " setting on the lead" in half of those cost us wins for sure. Even with all of our bad we still should have won most of those 6 listed imo

We've also won games we shouldn't have. GA is a great example. Games happen and life happens. We're better than we have been in years. So nothing you says voids anything I said.

 

[SmokinBob]

Comparing buTch to most of those coaches isn't a fair evaluation to begin with.

None of them went to a total dumpster fire with a roster of players that most wouldn't start at Appy state.

Step 1 to becoming a really good program is recruiting and so far buTch has done pretty well on that.

Step 2 is more good recruiting to build up a 2 and 3 deep at all positions so that injuries and giving starters a breather doesn't lower the on field production much.

Step 3 is real game knowledge and experience in all your 2 and 3 deep.

We don't have solid depth at all positions yet.

We certainly don't have real game knowledge and experience in our 2 deep yet BUT many of our Sophs and Freshmen did get lots of knowledge and experience this season because of the massive amounts of injuries unfortunately but it should help us next season and beyond.

As to coaching...ALL coaching staffs make mistakes and say or do things they wish they could do over...even the great staff of nick saTan.

The Hurd/Malone recruiting class was excellent and they keep getting better every year.

The ONLY way all those true freshmen could have played SEC footVol right out of high school WAS because of good coaching.

Bad coaches never could have played as many true freshmen and done better each year like we've done consistently.

That tends to make me think we have some decent coaches. maybe not elite but at least good coaches at most positions.

THINK...When buTch was the only coach that really wanted to take on our dumpster fire our footVol team was a joke that most teams laughed at all the time.

Just a few recruiting classes later almost all the so-called experts had us as pre-season top 10 and some even said if we stayed healthy and got a little luck we might Win the SEC and get a playoff spot.

I honestly expected it to take us 6 or 7 years to be ranked that high and the national experts talking that well about us.

I'm still mad and upset about LAST season because we were so damn close but we were still very young and not experienced enough.

Needless to say I'm really NOT happy about this season so far BUT injuries hit us really HARD on both sides of the ball especially on both lines and that DOES make a big difference especially in the SEC.

No excuse for USCe and I'll never figure that out as long as I live.

Is it true that buTch and all our coaches are crap and really can't teach and coach up our players?

I don't think so...if they couldn't coach then we never could have played so well when we're still forced to play so many true freshmen kids.

I'm not happy with our last 2 seasons but I do understand why most things happened wen we lost.

We can't afford to fire buTch and this staff and even if we could I'd want to see 1 or 2 more seasons of recruiting and coaching before I decided to try to find a better coach and recruiting team and maybe go through another 10 years or longer of total hell and my beloved Vols being laughed at again.

I don't hear anyone laughing at our Vols now and I don't expect we'll be laughed at again for quite some time because even hurt and beat up tis badly, we're still a dangerous Team for most teams in the country.

As to your statement and the pic you have up my friend...That says you don't spread bull shiite but your statement says that you do because IMO what you said is total bull shiite.

VFL...GBO!!!

:hi: