Question for those who watch LV offense closely

#26

VA_VOLFAN

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Messages
1,563
Likes
2,133
#26
She only has to do it this year....two 6'5"s coming in next year.

Posting up against bigs now ,,will be invaluable to her against shorter guards in the future.

(((You've just got to push the right button)))
Which I think the coaches have done because that is what they have been talking about since day 1 her physicality and learning the post role.
 
#27

lvocd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
694
Likes
1,094
#27
Which I think the coaches have done because that is what they have been talking about since day 1 her physicality and learning the post role.
I'm with those who aren't quite convinced that Rennia being used in the post is the best use of her particular skill set. It kinda feels like she's wasting valuable time that could be spent gaining even more confidence in her regular position. Instead, she's in a temporary position that she's visibly uncomfortable in and isn't contributing to the team as much in.

If this experiment continues and it turns out that she becomes really good in the post and that that makes her an even better Lady Vol, then I'll be 100% on board. Sure does seem like she's had the rug pulled out from under her at this point, though.

Fingers crossed!
 
#28

VA_VOLFAN

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Messages
1,563
Likes
2,133
#28
I'm with those who aren't quite convinced that Rennia being used in the post is the best use of her particular skill set. It kinda feels like she's wasting valuable time that could be spent gaining even more confidence in her regular position. Instead, she's in a temporary position that she's visibly uncomfortable in and isn't contributing to the team as much in.

If this experiment continues and it turns out that she becomes really good in the post and that that makes her an even better Lady Vol, then I'll be 100% on board. Sure does seem like she's had the rug pulled out from under her at this point, though.

Fingers crossed!
I don’t think this is as much an experiment as it is to get her to expand her game to be able to take care of mismatches when presented with them. Holdsclaw, Catchings, Maya Moore all backed people tonthe post and took advantage by expanding that skill set. I don’t think she is gonna be used to constantly bang down low more in a 4 out set. Also, I think her learning the 4 positions defense is going to help her as well.
 
#29

Undercovervol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
412
Likes
418
#29
I don’t think this is as much an experiment as it is to get her to expand her game to be able to take care of mismatches when presented with them. Holdsclaw, Catchings, Maya Moore all backed people tonthe post and took advantage by expanding that skill set. I don’t think she is gonna be used to constantly bang down low more in a 4 out set. Also, I think her learning the 4 positions defense is going to help her as well.
Exactly, people are acting like posting up is a big step in an offensive skill set, but it really isn’t. If you’re athletic as Davis, post up and shoot over smaller defenders. Elite wings all have this skill, like the players you mentioned.
 
#30

Coach Jumper

I can be there tomorrow
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
3,014
Likes
2,778
#30
I'm with those who aren't quite convinced that Rennia being used in the post is the best use of her particular skill set. It kinda feels like she's wasting valuable time that could be spent gaining even more confidence in her regular position. Instead, she's in a temporary position that she's visibly uncomfortable in and isn't contributing to the team as much in.

If this experiment continues and it turns out that she becomes really good in the post and that that makes her an even better Lady Vol, then I'll be 100% on board. Sure does seem like she's had the rug pulled out from under her at this point, though.

Fingers crossed!
I agree. She is the quintessential small forward.
But, she's not playing a traditional post. . . She is more of a baseline backdoor forward.
 
#31

lvocd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
694
Likes
1,094
#31
I don’t think this is as much an experiment as it is to get her to expand her game to be able to take care of mismatches when presented with them. Holdsclaw, Catchings, Maya Moore all backed people tonthe post and took advantage by expanding that skill set. I don’t think she is gonna be used to constantly bang down low more in a 4 out set. Also, I think her learning the 4 positions defense is going to help her as well.
You are likely 100% correct, of course. I guess I just feel bad for her after having received all the pre-season hype to be one to watch -- in her old position -- only to have learn something completely new. She's likely worrying that folks may be thinking she doesn't belong on the "Players to Watch" list right now. That's not true, of course, but I wonder if SHE feels that way.
 
#32

Rickster

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
1,359
Likes
2,399
#32
I don’t think this is as much an experiment as it is to get her to expand her game to be able to take care of mismatches when presented with them. Holdsclaw, Catchings, Maya Moore all backed people tonthe post and took advantage by expanding that skill set. I don’t think she is gonna be used to constantly bang down low more in a 4 out set. Also, I think her learning the 4 positions defense is going to help her as well.
I believe you hit the nail on the head. Being able to play multiple positions makes her more dangerous and defenses have to respect her during switch-offs.
 
#33

Pat4life

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 4, 2014
Messages
2,621
Likes
1,317
#33
Davis plays the 3 and 4 position, the same as last year.

It's the same offense, the guards are one year wiser and finally understand the concept of inside out basketball it don't always have to be force the ball into the post (our guards and fans in the past took that concept and it became a literal translation) but get into the paint to make the defense collapse, our guards are getting to the basket, and attacking. The offense looks different cos our players are playing smarter and are understanding Holly's philosophy, which is ATTack.

Our offense looks better cos we have better guard play but more less is the same offense, motion, flex motion and it's variations

And we are making teams play defense longer this year, not too much standing around, I do love all the screening action this year.
 
Last edited:
#34

FrozenLVFan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
1,113
Likes
1,242
#34
You are likely 100% correct, of course. I guess I just feel bad for her after having received all the pre-season hype to be one to watch -- in her old position -- only to have learn something completely new. She's likely worrying that folks may be thinking she doesn't belong on the "Players to Watch" list right now. That's not true, of course, but I wonder if SHE feels that way.
If she's spending her time worrying about being on a list, then she's got bigger issues than posting up. Learning a new skill set would be a better use of her time.
 
#35

lvocd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
694
Likes
1,094
#35
If she's spending her time worrying about being on a list, then she's got bigger issues than posting up. Learning a new skill set would be a better use of her time.
Of course! But we're not talking about mature 45-year-olds here. Whether young women in college admit to caring too much about what others think about them or not, most secretly DO worry about those things. The extra pressure that being on one of those watch lists is almost certainly something that most on it feel. Some thrive on it, while others struggle with it.
 
#37

Volfan2012

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
13,065
Likes
6,015
#37
Davis can't post up a center but she can post up anyone else. She is more of a stretch four not really a perimeter player but a player that can go either way with the right matchup. She needs to go up a little stronger when she posts get more physical. Other than a big physical center no one should be able to stop her inside.
 
#38

Twinsbornoncampus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Messages
54
Likes
51
#38
I think the way the offense has changed is we have players that are driving the ball taking it to the rim and not settling for jump shots. Were getting inside the paint for short jumpers and this strategy has also worked to get us to the line. If you want to see a successful offense this is how it works. The successful offense is to swing the ball quickly find and opening and drive to the rim. Of course you should have players that are consistent shoot the open three because making those is a bonus possession. 40 percent from the three is 60 percent of two point shots. Still only competent shooters need to be shooting these shots on our team that seems to be Westbrook, Davis, Jackson, and maybe Burrell. Green takes several but she was never a great three point shooter in high school and hasn't proven she can be consistent now.
Our offense has shown patience in the half court more than previous seasons. We also show the ability to run if the other team has the personnel in the game where we can do so.
Also not keying on one player like an inside player has totally lowered the bad turnovers. Of course we've had high turnovers in some games but most have been made by trying to make a play not trying to force a play. Turnovers only matter if you are losing the turnover battle. As long as you force more turnovers than you commit you are in a positive position because a huge key to winning any game is getting more shots at the basket that the opposition. If you can build up a positive 20 plus shot total while keeping the free throw line even you are almost certain to win. You can shoot 40 percent while the other team shoots 50 and the additional shots still give you the advantage to win.
Say a team hit 20 of 40 shots and you hit 23 of 60 they shoot 50 percent and still lose while you shoot 38 percent and win. This is where defense comes in and winning the turnover and offensive boards. This was the Pat Summit strategy and it won 8 National championships.
There is not a new strategy in basketball it just a rehash of what has been tried before. Effort on this team’s part is there. If you are looking for something new.
 
#39

alexvol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
1,446
Likes
1,191
#39
I'm the kind of person who probably would have been an excellent teacher of basketball skills as a coach, but I would NOT have been able to provide the type of analytical thinking that I imagine the best offensive/defensive strategists possess. I admire coaches who can implement new offenses and draw up brilliant plays in key situation. Sadly, my brain simply doesn't work like that.

What I want to know from the folks here who DO think like that is:

Based on the games Tennessee has played so far, does it look to you like the Lady Vols have learned anything new this season? I feel like they have improved lately, but I'm honestly not sure if what I'm seeing is incremental improvements due to changes the staff has made strategy-wise, or if it's just that individual players (like Westbrook) have gone the extra mile on their own to improve their game.

Will the Lady Vols' offense stall against opponents with extremely good defense? Or has the offense evolved/improved enough to avoid any of those games where our players look completely clueless about how to score against a tenacious defense?
Offense against zone defenses still smell like rotten eggs …..hope this helps
 
#40

VA_VOLFAN

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Messages
1,563
Likes
2,133
#40
Offense against zone defenses still smell like rotten eggs …..hope this helps
You think so? I think this team more so than in the past looks to penetrate the zone with cutting to the basket and kicking it out to open shooters. While they do get stagnant at times this team will start penetrating the zone and stop settling for the long jumper. Also they are getting themselves into the soft spot of the zone (the free throw area) for midrange jumpers.

Not saying we are great against the zone (but there has been more movement and less just throwing the balls out of bounds... yes turnovers are still high but more so from being aggressive like offensive fouls not just getting the ball stolen or throwing it over players head multiple possessions).
 
#41

GameTime

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
1,552
Likes
1,535
#41
It does appear Holly is not demanding the ball go into the post first before anyone shoots...It would be nice if our guards had better outside shooting skills, but in time they will hopefully improve....

Also, for recruiting purposes, play "modern ball", which includes outside shooting if you want more top guards to keep coming here...
 
#42

VA_VOLFAN

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Messages
1,563
Likes
2,133
#42
It does appear Holly is not demanding the ball go into the post first before anyone shoots...It would be nice if our guards had better outside shooting skills, but in time they will hopefully improve....

Also, for recruiting purposes, play "modern ball", which includes outside shooting if you want more top guards to keep coming here...
Meme, Westbrook, and Rennia are all shooting good clips from the field so the guards who should be taking the majority of the shots are knocking them down.

There has been a vast improvement (that I hope continues) at the free throw lines over the past couple of games too. It’s the freshman players that we hope to see improve throughout the year because the three I mentioned are shooting
( Westbrook 51 FG % and 60 3pt%, Davis 51.4 FG% and 47 3pt%, and Jackson 46% FG and 38 3pt%). It’s not like they are bombing away threes it’s Jackson 18 makes, E 12 makes , Davis 8 but what they are shooting is pretty efficient. Now if you look at Burrell, Green, and Massengill if they start getting into the 40s for FG% that is just more added weapons.
 
#43

Volfan2012

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
13,065
Likes
6,015
#43
Not forcing the post against the sagging zone has been the most refreshing difference about this team this season. I wish our defense were better and expect it will be as season progresses.
 
#44
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
657
Likes
314
#44
this is a redundant post but watching South Dakota against Missouri yesterday that team ran set plays with multiple options throughout the game.

and for those who like to compare men versus women the UT men as a team are shooting 35% threes.
 

VN Store



Sponsors
 

Top