Pre-Season Top 5?

#26
#26
I don't hand out things to people that don't deserve it and no way in hell should South Carolina be ranked ahead of Notre Dame period. just like every team the Gamecocks are going to have to prove themselves first. the only edge i will give them right now over Tennessee is height and depth at the post position. Tennessee still has better outside shooting and shooting in general. i'm not going to sit here and act like Tennessee's performance last season was all that good but don't sit there and act like South Carolina was any better either.
 
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#27
#27
The same MTSU that had a shot at the elite 8. They sure as heck does not play like a mid major. And Texas is good competition every year.
Graves won SEC FOY and last year just wasn't her year, but I would take her and Izzy over USC post players.
Really UT's only outside threat was Simmons and we have no proven outside threats returning. I didn't know Massengale wouldn't be returning this year nor Carter. You can add Dunbar too, who hasn't proven herself yet but the same can be said for Wilson. Wilson won't even win NFOY.
 
#28
#28
The same MTSU that had a shot at the elite 8. They sure as heck does not play like a mid major. And Texas is good competition every year.
Graves won SEC FOY and last year just wasn't her year, but I would take her and Izzy over USC post players.
Really UT's only outside threat was Simmons and we have no proven outside threats returning. I didn't know Massengale wouldn't be returning this year nor Carter. You can add Dunbar too, who hasn't proven herself yet but the same can be said for Wilson. Wilson won't even win NFOY.

Then we're thinking of different MTSU teams, because the one I'm thinking of lost in the first round by 30+ points to Oregon. If Texas is considered the pinnacle of Tennessee's OOC victories, then so be it.

I'm not sure what you're getting out on the rest of your post. Graves had a good freshmen year, but got exposed last year. Welch is far better than she is. Izzy is better than any of SC's posts, but there are 3 of them that are all pretty good. They have the capacity to wear Izzy down even if individually, Izzy is the superior player. As a group, Welch/Ibiam/Coates/White are better than Graves/Harrison/Dunbar/Jones.

Other than Izzy, Massengale is the only other proven player coming back. And Mitchell is better than she is. And yes, Carter is coming back...but she's not really that good. Certainly not going to replace Simmons' numbers.

I hope you're not comparing Wilson and Dunbar? Wilson sure seemed like a sure-fire star on these boards when Tennessee was in the running to land her. Based on their HS accomplishments, there's no reason to think she won't be an impact player, whereas Dunbar will be lucky to get 10 min/game. I don't know if Wilson will win NFOY, but I'd say that she's the favorite for it coming in this season.
 
#29
#29
I don't hand out things to people that don't deserve it and no way in hell should South Carolina be ranked ahead of Notre Dame period. just like every team the Gamecocks are going to have to prove themselves first. the only edge i will give them right now over Tennessee is height and depth at the post position. Tennessee still has better outside shooting and shooting in general. i'm not going to sit here and act like Tennessee's performance last season was all that good but don't sit there and act like South Carolina was any better either.

It's pre-season rankings. No one's handing out awards yet, but someone has to be #2 in the pre-season. SC brings back the starting 5 of the team that won the SEC title. I'd put them ahead of ND for pre-season because ND loses 3 starters, including their best player and starting frontcourt. Turner is a good pickup for ND, but that's offset by SC picking up Wilson. On paper, looks like the better team, so it's not outrageous for them to be #2.

Tennessee loses their best player. I don't share your assessment of Tennessee as a better shooting team. Izzy, yes. Massengale is pretty dependable. Graves has no reliable offense more than 5 ft beyond the basket, Carter is terrified to shoot, and Burdick only has confidence in her shot when Tennessee is winning big or playing an overmatched opponent. Ibiam and Coates are just as efficient with their shooting as Izzy/Graves in close (if not more), Welch and Mitchell have better mid-range games than anyone from Tennessee, and neither team has any proven pure outside shooters like Simmons, with Mitchell and Massengale being the two standouts. Between the two teams, Tennessee lost more (Simmons) heading into this season, and of the returning players, only Harrison is coming in off a good season. I think Massengale will pick up where she left off before she got injured, but the rest of the starters have a lot to prove.

I'm not going to get my hopes up that Tennessee is going to come out of the gates strong. They will be a better team at the end of the season once Nared, Middleton and hopefully Tucker get some valuable minutes. But pre-season...there's no way I'd put them above SC. I have reservations that they are even a top 10 pre-season team.
 
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#30
#30
I'm not putting them ahead of Notre Dame period. South Carolina weren't even a good outside shooting team all last season they were more of an inside out team and relied more on their post play than anything and Mitchell is more of a penetrating guard than she was a shooter. i don't see these so called proven shooters from South Carolina's side that you speak of.

There's so many candidates for that NFOY award so Wilson is not guaranteed to be the outright winner.
 
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#31
#31
You're right about MTSU I was thinking of another team my bad. Coming out of high school into college Turner will have a bigger impact than Wilson their freshman year. It's not a knock on Wilson I'm sure she will turn out to be an excellent player, but I personally believe that Turner will have a bigger impact their freshman year. It will take some time for Wilson to get use to the physicality of playing in college, I would have said that wherever she went.

Graves did not get exposed last year. What happened with Graves was all mental coupled with a few injuries. Graves got all the shots she wanted inside and put backs, she just couldn't convert. It wasn't what anybody had done to shut her down, it's just Graves shut Graves down period.

As for Dunbar no where in my post did I compare her or Wilson. I just stated that she was another outside threat. That has a chance prove why some say she is the best shooter in this years class.
 
#32
#32
I'm not putting them ahead of Notre Dame period. South Carolina weren't even a good outside shooting team all last season they were more of an inside out team and relied more on their post play than anything and Mitchell is more of a penetrating guard than she was a shooter. i don't see these so called proven shooters from South Carolina's side that you speak of.

There's so many candidates for that NFOY award so Wilson is not guaranteed to be the outright winner.

I agree with Mitchell being more of a slasher than an outside threat, but even then she was 40 of 74 (54%) from behind the arc. That's better than Kayla McBride was. She may not be looking to shoot the three, but when she's open, she can consistently hit that shot. She's not in Simmons' league in terms of getting hot from behind the arc and hitting 5 a game, but she's good enough that you have to respect the shot. She's a better outside shooter than anyone that Tennessee has coming back based on # of makes and 3FG%.

As for Wilson, I'm not proclaiming her the winner right now, but as the consensus #1 in her class, her chances are good. She will likely start at wing for SC, and with Mitchell, Welch and Ibian starting around her, she won't need to carry her team. Turner is the other player I think will be a preseason favorite, and she'll have her work cut out for her with an inexperienced ND frontcourt.
 
#33
#33
You're right about MTSU I was thinking of another team my bad. Coming out of high school into college Turner will have a bigger impact than Wilson their freshman year. It's not a knock on Wilson I'm sure she will turn out to be an excellent player, but I personally believe that Turner will have a bigger impact their freshman year. It will take some time for Wilson to get use to the physicality of playing in college, I would have said that wherever she went.

Graves did not get exposed last year. What happened with Graves was all mental coupled with a few injuries. Graves got all the shots she wanted inside and put backs, she just couldn't convert. It wasn't what anybody had done to shut her down, it's just Graves shut Graves down period.

As for Dunbar no where in my post did I compare her or Wilson. I just stated that she was another outside threat. That has a chance prove why some say she is the best shooter in this years class.

I think Wilson will get her wish and start at the wing. I see SC has her listed as a G/F. They have Welch, Ibiam, Coates and White to bang around on the inside. Wilson will have smaller and weaker defenders on her, so the adjustment to physicality won't be as drastic compared to playing inside. I think she can have a DeWanna Bonner type of career, depending on how reliable her jumper proves to be.

Graves...I don't know. I saw teams force her out of the paint on offense and dare her to shoot from midrange. Even when she made the midrange shot, she had to think about it for a long time. As a freshman, she used her speed to drive past her defenders in the paint. Teams this year did a better job of defending against that move. She's not all that big/heavy, and she has no hops. She can get her post-season honors back if she developed a consistent midrange game in the off season, but if she comes back this year with the same skill set as she finished last season, then I don't see her regaining her freshman impact.

I'm not ready to make any judgement on Dunbar until she shows that she can crack the playing rotation. Even if she is a great shooter, if she can't defend and can't get open, then she won't get a lot of minutes. Nared is the freshman I'm more excited about, and I hope that Middleton is able to adjust to the speed of the college game. I think those two will help lessen the sting of Simmons' graduation.
 
#34
#34
First off Notre Dame still has Jewel Loyd in case you forgot so Turner don't need to do everything by herself and Loyd is better than any of those South Carolina players you mentioned. i don't consider any of the South Carolina players to be proven shooter and i'll rather leave mitchel open before i do Massengale.
 
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#35
#35
IMO USC ultimately was a legit Sweet-Sixteen team, which was where they ended up. They didn't deserve a #1-seed for the tourny. The biggest issues last season for USC was depth particularly at the perimeter at both the 1 and 3 positions.

The starters for those positions were PG Sessions and SF Dozier. Both were fairly well-rated out of high school as 4* prospects (Sessions was actually rated higher than Mitchell per ESPN Hoopgurlz: Sessions, Mitchell, and Dozier were all 4*s in the 2012 class together). Last season however was the first year of them being elevated to starter's roles as sophomores, so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and expect them to improve.

Sessions was never a good distributing PG, and was not a major offensive contributor once the conf. season began. Dozier was poor at both the O & D ends. USC finished 29-5 last season, with the 5 losses arguably being against their toughest opponents. They lost by 8 (UNC), 2 (A&M), 12 (UT), 10 (UK), and 7 (UNC#2). In those gms, both Sessions and Dozier combine to average 6 pts, 5 reb, and 3 asst. per gm. That's combined, not individually. Their disappearance in the bigger gms made it very hard for the rest of the team to score points, as opposing defenses could choose to either swarm on Mitchell or Welch, or collapse the paint and cut off passes to Ibiam or Coates. If either Mitchell or Welch got into foul trouble, the odds got even worse with 40% of the starting unit being ineffective offensively....

One big issue at those positions was depth: at PG at least Sessions had Tiffany Davis and Olivia Gaines to back her up and practice against, but Davis was coming back from an injury that cut her true freshman season off at just 3 gms, so she was basically starting all over again. Gaines was a JUCO POY gem that Coach Staley found, and she shows she can contribute, but it was a Div. II JUCO program, so last season was a huge step up in competition for her.

As for Dozier, she really is as much (if not more) a SG as she is a SF, and all she had to back her up was Tina Roy who is a SG. Roy herself was coming back last season from an ACL injury suffered late in 2011-12 that she needed 2012-13 to fully recover from. Dozier is not very physical at the 3, does not drive to the basket much and prefers to set up and shoot perimeter shots, but she's been a bit hesitant at even doing those. She is solid at distributing the ball (assists) but hasn't developed as a defender yet. IMO, both still have a lot of potential and still could develop more into solid offensive contributors, but they need to get to work. Sessions is an above-average perimeter defender and was excellent at shutting down top scoring guards for opponents last season, especially towards the end of the year.

As for their positions, USC got major upgrades in talent in two McD All-Americans in Cuevas and Wilson. 5* talent Kaydra Duckett is also capable of playing the point, and both Cuevas and Duckett were scoring forces in high school (Sessions was too, so we'll see).

USC does not have a lot of experience with McDonalds All-Americans in their program: certainly not like UT has. The first involvement I can remember of course was in 2009-10 with Kelcey Bone, who was the overall #2 prospect in her class behind Brittany Griner. Bone only played one season at USC, but was a main starter for USC and was 2nd on the team in scoring (14.0 ppg) and led the team in rebounding (9.2 rpg). Then there was Coates last season who was 3rd in scoring (12.3), 2nd in blocked shots (2.2) and led the team in rebounding (8.4) despite only starting one game. I don't know if the incoming McDs (Wilson, Cuevas, & White) will get the same opportunities as Bone and Coates with all the returning starters, but if each can just have half the impact that the first 2 had they will be substantial contributors this season. At the least they will deepen not-so-deep positions at the 1 and 3, and should push Sessions and Dozier from behind to improve their production, or fear getting passed by on the depth chart.

Wilson IMO can find plenty of court time at both the 3 and 4 positions. She'll IMO be the first to spell Welch at the 4, or perhaps platoon with Coates at the 4 with White spelling Ibiam at the 5. She could also spell Dozier at the 3, or perhaps Welch (who has a solid mid-range perimeter game facing the basket) could slide to the 3 and let Wilson take the 4. Welch looks more like a 3 at 6-0, but has the wing-span and physicality of a 4 and the innate nose for the rebound her entire college career, so she not only has done well at the 4 but has thrived there at USC.

When one considers that in 2013-14 USC really only had 4 players that they could rely on consistently to provide offense - and that 2 of those 4 actually platooned for each other at the same position, so that for 80% of the season there were only 3 of the 4 on the floor at the same time - it's impressive that they went 29-5 and won the SEC. The signature of a Dawn Staley-coached team is the defense, not offense, and USC has had nationally top-10 scoring defenses each of the past 3 seasons. Last season only Welch and Mitchell were returning starters for USC, as Ibiam, Dozier, and Sessions were all reserves previously, and Coates of course was in high school. Despite all the success USC had last season, there really shouldn't be any reason to not think that they could still experience substantial improvement this season. But the biggest issue to address IMO is improvement offensively on the perimeter, especially at the 1 and 3 positions...

:happy:
 
#36
#36
I doubt we rank in the top five this season. In 2015-2016 we'll be top two JMO when Cooper and Deshields join the team if we can get a big post player in this season's class.
 
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#37
#37
I doubt we rank in the top five this season. In 2015-2016 we'll be top two JMO when Cooper and Deshields join the team if we can get a big post player in this season's class.

Hopefully Russell is more the player we thought she would be with the year off to get healthy.
 
#39
#39
You're right about MTSU I was thinking of another team my bad. Coming out of high school into college Turner will have a bigger impact than Wilson their freshman year. It's not a knock on Wilson I'm sure she will turn out to be an excellent player, but I personally believe that Turner will have a bigger impact their freshman year. It will take some time for Wilson to get use to the physicality of playing in college, I would have said that wherever she went.

Graves did not get exposed last year. What happened with Graves was all mental coupled with a few injuries. Graves got all the shots she wanted inside and put backs, she just couldn't convert. It wasn't what anybody had done to shut her down, it's just Graves shut Graves down period.

As for Dunbar no where in my post did I compare her or Wilson. I just stated that she was another outside threat. That has a chance prove why some say she is the best shooter in this years class.

i did wonder what happened to Graves,she took a step backwards to me,she will be called upon to have a big year this season,I think she can do it,as long as she has her confidence back,she will do fine
 
#40
#40
JMO if Sc loses more than 3 games in the regular season it will be a bad coaching job by Dawn Staley. I think they should be a certain contender for the National title. They have added a number one player and a top ten post player and have all five starters returning. I think we have a very good team as well but definitely look to be second best in the conference this season.
 
#41
#41
i did wonder what happened to Graves,she took a step backwards to me,she will be called upon to have a big year this season,I think she can do it,as long as she has her confidence back,she will do fine

I was sort of shocked to watch Grave play last year - I understood she had some injury concern, but compared to her play with USA basketball I barey recognized her. She looked really frustrated on offense to me.
 
#43
#43
I was sort of shocked to watch Grave play last year - I understood she had some injury concern, but compared to her play with USA basketball I barey recognized her. She looked really frustrated on offense to me.

She played with a hurt back all season. I would be frustrated too if I could barely walk after games.
 
#44
#44
She played with a hurt back all season. I would be frustrated too if I could barely walk after games.
Yes and missing some bunnies got in her head and she couldn't shake it. You could see it effect her. Hopefully her confidence level will be back up and she can perform the way we think she can.
 
#45
#45
South Carolina will win the SEC easily.

I'm not so sure that it will be so easy for South Carolina. People seem to be forgetting that they only bested the Lady Vols by one game and lost in the head to head match-up.

Yes, South Carolina returns their entire starting team from last year and add both Wilson and White, but Tennessee's incoming class isn't exactly chopped liver! With a little more fire from this year's team (and, yes, I believe the freshman class along with Jannah Tucker will help to provide that fire) I think it is very possible that we go into the South Carolina game ahead or tied for the SEC lead. After that we have to play GA in Athens and Vandy at home. SC plays MS State at home and KY away.

Is it possible for the Lady Vols to stumble and lose a game or even two that they shouldn't? Recent history has certainly shown us that it is certainly possible, but, in my opinion, anointing South Carolina the SEC champs without a game having been played is misguided. For one thing, the Lady Vols have, what appears on paper to be, more quality depth than they have had in the recent past. And yes, that depth is untested at the college level, but so are Wilson and White and Cuevas for South Carolina. It's makes no sense to credit SC's incoming class and ignore Tennessee's.

I guess I'm a glass half full kind of guy when it comes to the Lady Vols basketball team, but I prefer to go into the season with a positive expectations. Personally I think that there are four teams that could take the regular season championship, and Tennessee is one of them.

Jim
 
#46
#46
I'm not so sure that it will be so easy for South Carolina. People seem to be forgetting that they only bested the Lady Vols by one game and lost in the head to head match-up.

Yes, South Carolina returns their entire starting team from last year and add both Wilson and White, but Tennessee's incoming class isn't exactly chopped liver! With a little more fire from this year's team (and, yes, I believe the freshman class along with Jannah Tucker will help to provide that fire) I think it is very possible that we go into the South Carolina game ahead or tied for the SEC lead. After that we have to play GA in Athens and Vandy at home. SC plays MS State at home and KY away.

Jim

Tennessee loses Simmons and Russell; South Carolina loses no one. If Simmons was still on the team, I'd give Tennessee the edge. But as it is, they have no proven scorers in their backcourt, save the one who missed half of the season with a concussion.

They need to find out who on the team will step up and shoot the ball when Izzy is blanketed. Simmons wasn't shy about doing so. Whoever is starting at SG and SF needs to be ready to fire away.
 
#47
#47
I'm sure not thinking about the nearly 30th game into the season. We as fans will definitely see different combinations of players during the year. I think it is definitely a team that will give many teams some serious match up problems depending which five are on the floor. Some of the combinations will produce an offense that is not inside-out. I the team has mid-range shooters as Holly states I hope that offense is utilized. The player who can hit the 15-footer with a defensive hand in her face is someone I would hope to see on the floor.
 
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#48
#48
The player who can hit the 15-footer with a defensive hand in her face is someone I would hope to see on the floor.

And that player, whoever it is, needs to make herself known...because Tennessee was sorely missing that last year.
 
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