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glv98

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This video has exposed a lot, and I’m not referring to the players or even the coaches.

Goofs happen. It’s a part of all sports. When they happen we laugh because we know the athletes are talented and it sort of makes us feel good to see someone so amazing have an off day.

However, when people watched this video, it hurt their feelings. That tells me people either 1.) believe female athletes are inferior and that it’s mean spirited to point out their deficiencies or 2.) the bad play is the norm, and not the exception.

I thought the video was funny, but I definitely don’t think it encompasses female athletics or even the current state of the Lady Vols.

But it was enlightening to see what some of you truly think of female athletes—and your “favorite team”.
Huh? This has less than nothing to do with politics and I'll thank you not to add that crap to my Lady Vol grief! Yep this video hurt my feelings, which were already butt hurt from this season and the never-ending stream of Lady Vol nega-firsts. But that's in no way bc I believe female athletes are inferior nor that the video encompasses all of them.

Unfortunately the horror video (I laughed! I cried!) does encompass my team and is sadly the norm and not the exception for them. If you've been watching you know this sh&t does happen on a fairly regular basis. I'm already past denial in my LV grief process so I can admit not only is it frequently this bad, it's getting worse with each passing season and each successive recruiting class.

However, my frustration with my favorite team and my dismay at seeing the unnecessary bottoming out of such a proud program is NO reflection of my feelings about the abilities of female athletes in general. I think our football team has sucked for years so do I automatically think all men are inferior? Not gender connected, why should it be?

I said upthread, I use gallows humor as a coping mechanism to get thru this LV abyss. So I think the video is funny in a face-palm ain't-it-awful kind of way. And yeah, maybe a little as proof a change is needed post haste.

I got no energy to go all political about this; I'm worried we're not going to even make the damn tournament and we play Miss. St next. This time next week there may be a funny/not funny video going around of what McCowan is bout to do to poor KK and Mimi.
 
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madtownvol

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This video has exposed a lot, and I’m not referring to the players or even the coaches.

Goofs happen. It’s a part of all sports. When they happen we laugh because we know the athletes are talented and it sort of makes us feel good to see someone so amazing have an off day.

However, when people watched this video, it hurt their feelings. That tells me people either 1.) believe female athletes are inferior and that it’s mean spirited to point out their deficiencies or 2.) the bad play is the norm, and not the exception.

I thought the video was funny, but I definitely don’t think it encompasses female athletics or even the current state of the Lady Vols.

But it was enlightening to see what some of you truly think of female athletes—and your “favorite team”.
Spot on. The comments on the Twitter clip before it was taken down were mainly reiterations on the "see women can't...." theme even all those players would embarrass most of the posters in a one-on-one match-up.
 
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ksl415

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This video has exposed a lot, and I’m not referring to the players or even the coaches.

Goofs happen. It’s a part of all sports. When they happen we laugh because we know the athletes are talented and it sort of makes us feel good to see someone so amazing have an off day.

However, when people watched this video, it hurt their feelings. That tells me people either 1.) believe female athletes are inferior and that it’s mean spirited to point out their deficiencies or 2.) the bad play is the norm, and not the exception.

I thought the video was funny, but I definitely don’t think it encompasses female athletics or even the current state of the Lady Vols.

But it was enlightening to see what some of you truly think of female athletes—and your “favorite team”.
^^^
 

glv98

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Spot on. The comments on the clip before it was taken down were mainly reiterations on the "see women can't...." theme even all those players would embarrass most of the posters in a one-on-one match-up.
Oh you mean there are morons in the world and on this board who jump on something like this video and troll their dumbass caveman views on it? Wow, who knew. Don't paint us all with that brush though. I'm frustrated to see LVs headed over the cliff to the rocks where Old Diminion and La Tech lay precisely because I hold such high standards and expectations for female athletes, especially the ones in this program.
 

madtownvol

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Oh you mean there are morons in the world and on this board who jump on something like this video and troll their dumbass caveman views on it? Wow, who knew. Don't paint us all with that brush though. I'm frustrated to see LVs headed over the cliff to the rocks where Old Diminion and La Tech lay precisely because I hold such high standards and expectations for female athletes, especially the ones in this program.
To clarify, I was referring to comments on the original twitter feed not this board. I was not painting anyone in particular with any kind of brush other than to note, per Nobackboard's post, that most TWITTER commentators were "laughing at" and not "laughing with" (as in the Steph Curry trying to dunk clip I posted upstream). A lot of Twitter posters were taking this play as a kind of exemplar of women's basketball. I think those posters are the same kind of posters who pop on this board to proclaim "No one care about women's basketball" and other such dismissive comments. You made it clear that is not how feel, good to know but why get all defensive about it? Per your earlier response, this Twitter post had a heck of a lot to do with gender politics and a lot of men (let me be clear I am a man with a daughter who will be playing D3 soccer) who always want to demean women's sports. That fact does not imply that ALL MEN do so or that YOU feel that way but only that enough men act that way for it to be a problem.
 
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LasVegasBill23

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I do not know about the premise of men vs women.... and all that has been said here about it....

but for sure.... at least from my point of view..... that is a stain on the women's game that so many bunnies are missed.... including in this video.... the layups which should be converted at pretty much 100% are frequently missed and why? There is no reason for it....
 
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Oh you mean there are morons in the world and on this board who jump on something like this video and troll their dumbass caveman views on it? Wow, who knew. Don't paint us all with that brush though. I'm frustrated to see LVs headed over the cliff to the rocks where Old Diminion and La Tech lay precisely because I hold such high standards and expectations for female athletes, especially the ones in this program.

We won't reach the depths of those programs because of

People like the VolNation that fight to keep it from happening
People like you who don't want it to happen
People like me who push to change what has happened
and
People unknown, who are working to keep it from happening


This fanbase and alumni will fight much harder than those schools because there is a much deeper love of CWBB and a much richer history behind UT and CPS' program.
 
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I do not know about the premise of men vs women.... and all that has been said here about it....

but for sure.... at least from my point of view..... that is a stain on the women's game that so many bunnies are missed.... including in this video.... the layups which should be converted at pretty much 100% are frequently missed and why? There is no reason for it....

There really isn't a reason for misses except that boys learn to make them early on at full attack speed. They practice them with different scenarios in their heads even if by themselves. I did this myself. I wanted to see how hard I could go while landing the ball softly. But it's a mindset and a training thing.

High speed layups
I teach this.
And it is very simple to teach
  1. Time your player like they are running track from three points: Baseline, mid-court and the arc....Time them without the ball from a triple threat stance and let them touch the bottom of the back board...start the stop-watch on first movement from each of the three starting points and stop the timer when you here the click of their hand on the backboard
  2. then,
  3. have them match that time, with the ball.

The only way they can equal both times is to have perfect starting, dribbling, finishing mechanics.


I can be there tomorrow
 

madtownvol

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I do not know about the premise of men vs women.... and all that has been said here about it....

but for sure.... at least from my point of view..... that is a stain on the women's game that so many bunnies are missed.... including in this video.... the layups which should be converted at pretty much 100% are frequently missed and why? There is no reason for it....
Maybe it is not that mysterious. Yes, there is technical component to it (per Coach Jumper) but the reality is that most women players due to a combination of being smaller stature than most men (in D-1) and often not having a great vertical leap are playing below the rim. In game situations, that limitation can make lay-ups under pressure much tougher than it is for 6-5 male with 35 to 40 inch vertical leap. In this boondoggle play for example, notice the LVs weren't just missing but they were shooting in traffic, surrounded by taller players and were putting the ball up at a very tough angle below the rim. The vandy player who missed the break-away lay-up was probably about 5-4. Her mistake was taking the ball too close to the rim--anticipating a defender who never arrived--and she was shooting directly under the rim, which essentially blocked her shot. For a typical male D1player, that situation is not a "mistake" because he simply dunks the ball.

Nicky Anosiki had good size but she could not jump 2 inches off the ground (I never could figure that one out because she seemed like fast twitch athlete) and she missed tons of shots under the rim. Candace Parker at 6-5 and a good vertical, was money in the bank around the rim; Glory Johnson at 6-2 and a jump that would make most guy players proud, same story (she really should have dunked a few). Baylor's Griner, LSU's Fowles also money around the rim. Did they have better technique? Well, they certainly had different technique because they could play above the rim. Unfortunately, the great technique used by 6-7 player with a 7-2 wingspan and plenty of hops is not easily transferred to a smaller player.

Our current posts-Green and KK despite having decent height, have almost no vertical and are playing below the rim. They can't "Griner" the ball

Davis is generally much better around the rim because of her height, long arms, and a good vertical.
 
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orangealways

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There really isn't a reason for misses except that boys learn to make them early on at full attack speed. They practice them with different scenarios in their heads even if by themselves. I did this myself. I wanted to see how hard I could go while landing the ball softly. But it's a mindset and a training thing.

High speed layups
I teach this.
And it is very simple to teach
  1. Time your player like they are running track from three points: Baseline, mid-court and the arc....Time them without the ball from a triple threat stance and let them touch the bottom of the back board...start the stop-watch on first movement from each of the three starting points and stop the timer when you here the click of their hand on the backboard
  2. then,
  3. have them match that time, with the ball.

The only way they can equal both times is to have perfect starting, dribbling, finishing mechanics.


I can be there tomorrow

Self promote much?
This site ain’t gonna be your way to a job...
 

glv98

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We do have an uncanny ability to make "it" fit our own agenda don't we? For me the missed chippies are not gender related, not due to physical limitations, and not even due to the lack of an internet message board coach and his magic elixir.

For me its all between the ears: lack of composure, lack of confidence, lack of buying into a game plan. Its that harem scarem, desperation, church league mentality that we pretty much always play with. Not enough presence of mind to think hey I'm quadruple teamed and too far under, maybe I toss it out to someone who's open for a short jumper. Its the ugly ball we've resorted to so we don't have to run an actual offense. Does not exactly engender composure and concentration.

Note this sequence in the video is not deep in a game where things have broken down. If I'm not mistaken, this is the opening sequence of the game! We almost always play this way; we lack focus
from the moment we leave the locker room. And with a few rare exceptions, we play down to the level of the worst teams, never up.

Again, this is indicative IMO of a program mindset problem, not a gender related one.
 

mlindsay

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The offense is horrendous, but Green runs away from the girl with the ball to take another girl on the wing.....What kind of basketball fundamental teaching is going on over there......Pitiful.
Could it be because Rennia was there and in a better position to draw the charge or block the shot? I give Zaay credit for being one of the first ones back as she was just laying on her back damn near out of bounds a couple of seconds before hand. Rennia was suppose to stop the ball and Zaay was going to her spot in the zone, simple case of poor communication as neither yelled “I got ball”
 

djtee

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The offense is horrendous, but Green runs away from the girl with the ball to take another girl on the wing.....What kind of basketball fundamental teaching is going on over there......Pitiful.
Please stop this is to funny i`m on the floor LMAO ! oh my god
 

Amb3096

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Could it be because Rennia was there and in a better position to draw the charge or block the shot? I give Zaay credit for being one of the first ones back as she was just laying on her back damn near out of bounds a couple of seconds before hand. Rennia was suppose to stop the ball and Zaay was going to her spot in the zone, simple case of poor communication as neither yelled “I got ball”
I don't think Zaay ran away from the Vandy player. Rennia shoved her away. Zaay looked as confused as anyone else. I understand now why Vandy missed the layup so badly. Girl was probably like, what the hell is going on here? She probably took her eye of the hoop to see if the court was opening over the belly of Hell or something.
 
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We do have an uncanny ability to make "it" fit our own agenda don't we? For me the missed chippies are not gender related, not due to physical limitations, and not even due to the lack of an internet message board coach and his magic elixir.

For me its all between the ears: lack of composure, lack of confidence, lack of buying into a game plan. Its that harem scarem, desperation, church league mentality that we pretty much always play with. Not enough presence of mind to think hey I'm quadruple teamed and too far under, maybe I toss it out to someone who's open for a short jumper. Its the ugly ball we've resorted to so we don't have to run an actual offense. Does not exactly engender composure and concentration.

Note this sequence in the video is not deep in a game where things have broken down. If I'm not mistaken, this is the opening sequence of the game! We almost always play this way; we lack focus
from the moment we leave the locker room. And with a few rare exceptions, we play down to the level of the worst teams, never up.

Again, this is indicative IMO of a program mindset problem, not a gender related one.

I would agree with some of this post but you are being such a bunghole towards me, and this LV team...
You epitomize "keyboard warrior"

Type on,, oh "god of prose"
 

madtownvol

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I don't think Zaay ran away from the Vandy player. Rennia shoved her away. Zaay looked as confused as anyone else. I understand now why Vandy missed the layup so badly. Girl was probably like, what the hell is going on here? She probably took her eye of the hoop to see if the court was opening over the belly of Hell or something.
Yeah, I can't quite figure out what Rennia was trying to do. That was just a weird play.
 

madtownvol

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We do have an uncanny ability to make "it" fit our own agenda don't we? For me the missed chippies are not gender related, not due to physical limitations, and not even due to the lack of an internet message board coach and his magic elixir.

For me its all between the ears: lack of composure, lack of confidence, lack of buying into a game plan. Its that harem scarem, desperation, church league mentality that we pretty much always play with. Not enough presence of mind to think hey I'm quadruple teamed and too far under, maybe I toss it out to someone who's open for a short jumper. Its the ugly ball we've resorted to so we don't have to run an actual offense. Does not exactly engender composure and concentration.

Note this sequence in the video is not deep in a game where things have broken down. If I'm not mistaken, this is the opening sequence of the game! We almost always play this way; we lack focus
from the moment we leave the locker room. And with a few rare exceptions, we play down to the level of the worst teams, never up.

Again, this is indicative IMO of a program mindset problem, not a gender related one.
Funny, how those who say that others have an "agenda" never recognize their own "agenda." Look, I am not debating that this team could be better coached and they have underachieved this year. Okay? WE ARE IN AGREEMENT on that point. But, in a complex world not everything can be reduced to one dimension.

If you ever watch ESPN they have a weekly piece called "Friday Night Funnies" (and this clip would fit right in). Every week, they show three plays (generally from the major men's sports) which are complete comic boondoggles. So, these "everything that could go wrong did go wrong" plays happen at all levels. They are fluke plays, however, and should be treated as such. They are not the gauge by which to judge a team or the caliber of players.

As I pointed out before, in this very game, the LVs had some highlight reel plays; Evina's great passes to Meme and Rennia to get transition buckets; several set plays where the commentators noted how patient the LVs were patient and moved the ball well to get a good shot. If you just looked at the highlight reel on the LVs website (and the final score), you would think that was a really good game. However, that positive framing would be just a misleading as the blooper play. Truth lies once again in the middle.

And I am sorry, really truly I am, that you can't recognize that when scores of Twitter posters comment on that video with statements like " I love women but women and sports don't mix!" "Haha, women play basketball like they drive" "More proof that women should stay home and have babies" those comments are gender related and that those Twitter warriors are not offering incisive critical insights about Holly's lack of coaching acumen. Recognizing obvious expressions of gender bias is not an agenda, but ignoring that evidence most certainly is.
 
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glv98

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Lol I'm a keyboard warrior? Hello pot have you met the kettle?
I'm not being any kind of hole toward the players; they are total victims here and I'm begging for help for them.

Thanks for the permit to keep typing "oh god of internet coaching"
 

glv98

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Madtown I totally recognize my own agenda; it's why I said our and we not you and they.

Also I don't have Twitter don't read Twitter and discount pretty much everything on it as total dumbassery. Probably due to the last two years. So no I don't recognize Twitter agenda.
 
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Lol I'm a keyboard warrior? Hello pot have you met the kettle?
I'm not being any kind of hole toward the players; they are total victims here and I'm begging for help for them.

Thanks for the permit to keep typing "oh god of internet coaching"

If true, then we're on the same team.
And I understand why you think me to be an internet coach...it is how you know me.
But truth in fact is I am a very good skills coach and an even better motivator.
Like you, CHW has made up her opinion of me from my postings.
But she may be letting emotions block business decisions and staff advancement.

Like you are now.
"Your journey begins,,grasshopper"
 
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