Players or School

#1

thistime

No matter where you're at there you are.
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
1,606
Likes
5,528
#1
With the NIL deals running wild and the unrest of that situation I thought of a simple question. IF they decided that only AMATEUR athletes could play college sports and they started semi pro teams for the talent that was almost ready for the pro's, would you still watch UT or any other college sports. Were talking unranked and 2 star players with the occasional 3 star player, basically an even playing field with rules that make cheating unthinkable.( If caught cheating, no team for 5 years) How many big time coaches would still coach at the college level.

Do you cheer for the great players, coach or the school ?
 
#2

CAVPUT

1979/2022
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
10,872
Likes
18,289
#2
With the NIL deals running wild and the unrest of that situation I thought of a simple question. IF they decided that only AMATEUR athletes could play college sports and they started semi pro teams for the talent that was almost ready for the pro's, would you still watch UT or any other college sports. Were talking unranked and 2 star players with the occasional 3 star player, basically an even playing field with rules that make cheating unthinkable.( If caught cheating, no team for 5 years) How many big time coaches would still coach at the college level.

Do you cheer for the great players, coach or the school ?
School....always.
 
#3

DaddyChad

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
18,022
Likes
19,986
#3
I thought we already had semi pro teams?

It seems like every offering we’ve had in the past whether it be XFL, arena, etc hasn’t really been profitable at least not to the degree college and nfl are. Doubt we see that change.
 
Likes: TheVolsFrog
#5

82_VOL_83

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Messages
41,659
Likes
30,126
#5
With the NIL deals running wild and the unrest of that situation I thought of a simple question. IF they decided that only AMATEUR athletes could play college sports and they started semi pro teams for the talent that was almost ready for the pro's, would you still watch UT or any other college sports. Were talking unranked and 2 star players with the occasional 3 star player, basically an even playing field with rules that make cheating unthinkable.( If caught cheating, no team for 5 years) How many big time coaches would still coach at the college level.

Do you cheer for the great players, coach or the school ?
I'd watch UT and would watch about as much farm league as I do USFL......None.
 
#6

VFL-82-JP

Bleedin' Orange...
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
17,232
Likes
40,083
#6
This is a fun question (my answer: I will always be a Vols fan, no matter what), but not at all relevant. In fact, there is no path to get to this type of future. Why not? Two reasons:

(1) because no organization will ever again be able to prevent a college student from making money off his or her name, image, or likeness, purely in the interest of "amateurism." The federal court system, including the Supreme Court, made that abundantly clear. The NCAA can't prevent lads from making money, the conferences can't, the universities can't. No one can. In spite of the NCAA begging Congress to write a new federal law re-establishing some rear guard bulwark of amateurism, I don't think even they can. Think the Supreme Court would squash any such law as unconstitutional.

(2) because even if somehow you got past objection #1, young men who are very good at football would still come to college. Not 100%, maybe not even 50%, but enough that you'll still be watching 3*, 4* and yes even some 5* athletes in the college game. Don't believe this? Want proof? Look no further than college baseball, where there is no "wait two years after HS graduation" rule. Kids can go straight to pro ball from their senior prom. And a lot do. But a lot of others value the college education enough to forego the pros until they get their diploma. Happens all the time. And would in football, as well.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the litmus test of this question. Only VFLs need apply, right? :) But it is purely hypothetical, with no chance of touching reality.

Go Vols!
 
Last edited:
#7

knox-townVOL

First of his name
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
16,154
Likes
23,973
#7
I thought we already had semi pro teams?

It seems like every offering we’ve had in the past whether it be XFL, arena, etc hasn’t really been profitable at least not to the degree college and nfl are. Doubt we see that change.
Exactly. It would be a non-issue because there is no market for it. People aren’t going to tune in and watch “5* qb from Washington vs 5* qb from Kansas”

Even if they did make a semi-pro league that ran alongside college football season, it would last a year tops.
 
Likes: kcvols1
#8

TheDeeble

Guy on the Couch
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
8,450
Likes
6,183
#8
I thought we already had semi pro teams?

It seems like every offering we’ve had in the past whether it be XFL, arena, etc hasn’t really been profitable at least not to the degree college and nfl are. Doubt we see that change.
It's not a fair to compare XFL/USFL to college. I don't mean you can't or shouldn't just that there's no way XFL/USFL could compete with college as is.

College football has decades of homegrown fans and new ones every year. Ties and memories are made to that period of someone's life so much that people pay money to receive extra fan benefits or simply donate money to the athletic program. Tennessee can get 100,000 people to a game on Saturday. An XFL team may not see that home attendance in a season.

That is a built in advantage for college sports that semipro teams cannot compete with. Any new league is going to have to start over with fan support.
 
#9

82_VOL_83

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Messages
41,659
Likes
30,126
#9
This is an interesting question (my answer: I will always be a Vols fan, no matter what), but not at all relevant. In fact, there is no path to get to this type of future. Why not? Two reasons:

(1) because no agent or organization will ever be able to prevent a college student from making money off his or her name, image, or likeness, purely in the interest of "amateurism." The federal court system, including the Supreme Court, made that abundantly clear. The NCAA can't prevent them from making money, the conferences can't, the universities can't. No one can.

(2) because even if somehow you got past objection #1, young men who are very good at football would still come to college. Not 100%, maybe not even 50%, but enough that you'll still be watching 3*, 4* and yes even some 5* athletes in the college game. Don't believe this? Want proof? Look no further than college baseball, where there is no "wait two years after HS graduation" rule. Kids can go straight to pro ball from their senior prom. And a lot do. But a lot of others value the college education enough to forego the pros until they get their diploma. Happens all the time. And would in football, as well.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the litmus test of this question. Only VFLs need apply, right? :) But it is purely hypothetical, with no chance of touching reality.

Go Vols!
Are you sure? They have to be out of HS one year and 19 years old I'm pretty sure.
 
#10

VFL-82-JP

Bleedin' Orange...
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
17,232
Likes
40,083
#10
Are you sure? They have to be out of HS one year and 19 years old I'm pretty sure.
Football (NFL) is 2 years removed.
Basketball (NBA) is 1 year removed.
Baseball (MLB and the minor leagues that feed MLB) has no post-high school limitation that I've ever heard of. I think they do have to be 18 years old, but a lot of kids graduate HS at age 18.
 
#13

tnutater

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2014
Messages
2,559
Likes
4,310
#13
It's not a fair to compare XFL/USFL to college. I don't mean you can't or shouldn't just that there's no way XFL/USFL could compete with college as is.

College football has decades of homegrown fans and new ones every year. Ties and memories are made to that period of someone's life so much that people pay money to receive extra fan benefits or simply donate money to the athletic program. Tennessee can get 100,000 people to a game on Saturday. An XFL team may not see that home attendance in a season.

That is a built in advantage for college sports that semipro teams cannot compete with. Any new league is going to have to start over with fan support.
Butts in the seats are good.
TV contracts are better.
 
#14

TheDeeble

Guy on the Couch
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
8,450
Likes
6,183
#14
Butts in the seats are good.
TV contracts are better.
Yea, but TV contracts are based on how money they think they can generate off viewership.

I'll happily watch Tennessee football. XFL/USFL? Meh, maybe if I'm bored and have nothing else to do.

If college football was decoupled from college and goes to developmental leagues, clubs, or XFL/USFL, I think there would be a drop in tv money paid/viewership/attendance for those other leagues compared to college. At least for a while.
 
#16

sjt18

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
46,409
Likes
37,240
#16
With the NIL deals running wild and the unrest of that situation I thought of a simple question. IF they decided that only AMATEUR athletes could play college sports and they started semi pro teams for the talent that was almost ready for the pro's, would you still watch UT or any other college sports. Were talking unranked and 2 star players with the occasional 3 star player, basically an even playing field with rules that make cheating unthinkable.( If caught cheating, no team for 5 years) How many big time coaches would still coach at the college level.

Do you cheer for the great players, coach or the school ?
School.... and college football itself.

In a lot of ways, it might even be a better game. College baseball is a great version of the sport. I would rather watch SEC baseball than MLB. Many of the best players are drafted to minor league contracts out of HS.

I know a lot of guys follow players into the NFL... I don't. I have only a passive interest in players after they go pro.
 
#17

sjt18

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
46,409
Likes
37,240
#17
I think you guys are overestimating in some ways and ignoring something significant. There would likely be 8-10 teams that will probably have to be subsidized by the NFL. That's around 400-500 players taken over 3-5 years. So you are only taking around 150 players out of any given recruiting class out of around 3250 initial signees. On average that's about 1 per team. Realistically, you're talking mostly about the "5*" guys having this opportunity. It would primarily be the physical freaks rather than the guys who develop over their college careers.

So does that truly hurt CFB or does it level the playing field? It WILL NOT have a dramatic effect on the quality of play for most teams. It might change the dynamic for teams like Bama. It WILL emphasize coaching more.

I really don't think that kind of league would attract wide fan interest. Do you guys? So instead of all the elite players... you might just end up with those who lack academic interest/qualifications. Why go that route if you want a degree and to play in front of college fans?
 
#19

TMvol10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Messages
761
Likes
1,122
#19
This is a fun question (my answer: I will always be a Vols fan, no matter what), but not at all relevant. In fact, there is no path to get to this type of future. Why not? Two reasons:

(1) because no organization will ever again be able to prevent a college student from making money off his or her name, image, or likeness, purely in the interest of "amateurism." The federal court system, including the Supreme Court, made that abundantly clear. The NCAA can't prevent lads from making money, the conferences can't, the universities can't. No one can. In spite of the NCAA begging Congress to write a new federal law re-establishing some rear guard bulwark of amateurism, I don't think even they can. Think the Supreme Court would squash any such law as unconstitutional.

(2) because even if somehow you got past objection #1, young men who are very good at football would still come to college. Not 100%, maybe not even 50%, but enough that you'll still be watching 3*, 4* and yes even some 5* athletes in the college game. Don't believe this? Want proof? Look no further than college baseball, where there is no "wait two years after HS graduation" rule. Kids can go straight to pro ball from their senior prom. And a lot do. But a lot of others value the college education enough to forego the pros until they get their diploma. Happens all the time. And would in football, as well.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the litmus test of this question. Only VFLs need apply, right? :) But it is purely hypothetical, with no chance of touching reality.

Go Vols!
Pertaining to your first point…Is there not a way that individual universities could require a binding contract to be signed where the player is agreeing that his/her “payment” is a college scholarship. And by signing that contract you are agreeing that your payment is confined to the scholarship and the scholarship only. If you break the contract you will be ineligible. If you don’t want to agree to those terms, then don’t sign and take you talent to some other level of sport; be it the pros or development type league. I’m sure this has been thought of and there’s some set of laws where this wouldn’t work but if it could, I’d be all for watching the less talented guys play for UT while the more talented athletes take their shot in the professional ranks.
 
#20

VFL-82-JP

Bleedin' Orange...
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
17,232
Likes
40,083
#20
Pertaining to your first point…Is there not a way that individual universities could require a binding contract to be signed where the player is agreeing that his/her “payment” is a college scholarship. And by signing that contract you are agreeing that your payment is confined to the scholarship and the scholarship only. If you break the contract you will be ineligible. If you don’t want to agree to those terms, then don’t sign and take you talent to some other level of sport; be it the pros or development type league. I’m sure this has been thought of and there’s some set of laws where this wouldn’t work but if it could, I’d be all for watching the less talented guys play for UT while the more talented athletes take their shot in the professional ranks.
I don't think the Supreme Court would allow it.

The courts already told the NCAA that it can not prohibit players from profiting off their own name, image or likeness. And the NCAA is nothing except an organization created by the universities to do their collective bidding. So if the Supreme Court told the NCAA to back off, it was also telling the universities (and their conferences) to back off.

As much as the universities really, really, REALLY want to preserve an amateur façade over college sports, I don't think there is any way for them to do it. Not after what the Supreme Court said.

The only outside shot they have is to try asking Congress to pass new federal laws. But they have already been asking; and Congress is doing nothing. I think even Congress is staying well back from that briar patch, because even they could get their hand slapped by the Supreme Court if they run afoul of the Constitution.

I mean, imagine how your scenario would play out. University asks player to voluntarily forego any NIL contracts while a student. Student agrees. They sign a contract. Student starts playing for the university. An NIL collective offers the player $1M. Player accepts (breaching his contract). University says, you breached the contract, you're out. Student says, not so fast. Student sues to remain in college, arguing the university is breaking his constitutional rights (pointing back at the Supreme Court case of 2021). What can the university do now? They're stuck. They have to allow the student to participate in the NIL contract. No choice.

In short, a contract of the type you describe is unenforceable in that regard. And businesses (including colleges) don't do contracts that they know up front can't be enforced.

Yeah, to answer your question, I do NOT think there's any way. Don't think universities could do that, at all.
 
Last edited:
#24

99gator

Congressman
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
15,696
Likes
17,451
#24
With the NIL deals running wild and the unrest of that situation I thought of a simple question. IF they decided that only AMATEUR athletes could play college sports and they started semi pro teams for the talent that was almost ready for the pro's, would you still watch UT or any other college sports. Were talking unranked and 2 star players with the occasional 3 star player, basically an even playing field with rules that make cheating unthinkable.( If caught cheating, no team for 5 years) How many big time coaches would still coach at the college level.

Do you cheer for the great players, coach or the school ?
This isn't even a question. We already have this with college baseball. And the NBA used to get players right out of high school and not one and done.

It's one of the reasons the NFL never has started a minor league. It's expensive and they know no one would give a damn. You've seen the crowds for the USFL.
 
Likes: JRich
#25

wmcovol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
12,887
Likes
19,602
#25
With the NIL deals running wild and the unrest of that situation I thought of a simple question. IF they decided that only AMATEUR athletes could play college sports and they started semi pro teams for the talent that was almost ready for the pro's, would you still watch UT or any other college sports. Were talking unranked and 2 star players with the occasional 3 star player, basically an even playing field with rules that make cheating unthinkable.( If caught cheating, no team for 5 years) How many big time coaches would still coach at the college level.

Do you cheer for the great players, coach or the school ?
School. “Players & coaches come and go but the fans stay here thru it all”.
 
Likes: thistime

VN Store




Top