Player development

#1
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Vols till I fall

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#1
Is it me or does it seem like some Tennessee basketball players hit their peak their Junior years and then once they become seniors, they kind of drop off?

I thought Admiral, Kyle Alexander, Santi, JJJ and Nkahmoua were all better during their 3rd year?
 
#2
#2
Vols till I fall said:
Is it me or does it seem like some Tennessee basketball players hit their peak their Junior years and then once they become seniors, they kind of drop off?

I thought Admiral, Kyle Alexander, Santi, JJJ and Nkahmoua were all better during their 3rd year?
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It's just you.
 
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#6
#6
No, this isn't on Barnes, he's a great coach and the man I ant for the Job.

It's just weird to see this trend
 
#7
#7
Key is a great example. He scored like 27 in that Gonzaga game. I had a friend that knows the game tell me how happy we’d be with Key because of his offense. He’s been beaten into a shell of himself under Barnes. There’s some players that do well under Barnes, but it’s pretty clear that Key has gotten worse the more times he’s been under Barnes coaching. His confidence is shot.
 
#8
#8
Admiral went up in points, assists, fg%, and 3 point % his senior year. So, he didn’t regress. I didn’t realize that he shot 42% from 3 in his senior year.

Kyle went up in points and rebounds his senior year and shot the 3 pretty well.

Not sure which of the 6 years you want to call Fulkerson’s junior year. His best year was year 4, but then got Covid the next year, and we added talent. He had to be a go-to player on that team in year 4.

Vescovi is only down 1.4 points but up in steals. His shooting is obviously down, and it’s probably part getting defended well and part injury.

I don’t think the numbers bear out your hypothesis.
 
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#9
#9
WaywardVol said:
Key is a great example. He scored like 27 in that Gonzaga game. I had a friend that knows the game tell me how happy we’d be with Key because of his offense. He’s been beaten into a shell of himself under Barnes. There’s some players that do well under Barnes, but it’s pretty clear that Key has gotten worse the more times he’s been under Barnes coaching. His confidence is shot.
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Gonzaga is 82 in defensive efficiency and it was a scrimmage. He’s better than he’s shown, but I think that was a little fool’s gold.
 
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#10
#10
VolGee4 said:
Admiral went up in points, assists, fg%, and 3 point % his senior year. So, he didn’t regress. I didn’t realize that he shot 42% from 3 in his senior year.

Kyle went up in points and rebounds his senior year and shot the 3 pretty well.

Not sure which of the 6 years you want to call Fulkerson’s junior year. His best year was year 4, but then got Covid the next year, and we added talent. He had to be a go-to player on that team in year 4.

Vescovi is only down 1.4 points but up in steals. His shooting is obviously down, and it’s probably part getting defended well and part injury.

I don’t think the numbers bear out your hypothesis.
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Interesting, didn't realize that about Admiral. From whati recall, he had a pretty brutal cold streak his senior year, maybe I'm just losing it
 
#11
#11
WaywardVol said:
Key is a great example. He scored like 27 in that Gonzaga game. I had a friend that knows the game tell me how happy we’d be with Key because of his offense. He’s been beaten into a shell of himself under Barnes. There’s some players that do well under Barnes, but it’s pretty clear that Key has gotten worse the more times he’s been under Barnes coaching. His confidence is shot.
Click to expand...

Key didn’t have to exude as much energy on defense until he came to TN. Barnes makes every player go 100mph on defense which can wear down a player on the offensive side.

Barnes does a better job developing three star unknowns (Grant, Admirlal, Bone, Pons, Santi, ZZ, etc) than elite five star players. Just my $.02, but many Texas fans say the same thing.

To answer your question, I don’t think it is a lack of player development but we don’t have an offensive identity and @ this level, most players can shoot. They can improve, but something is off w this team. I think they are tired or Santi and JJJ still injured. Hopefully they’ll turn it around.
 
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#12
#12
Vols till I fall said:
Is it me or does it seem like some Tennessee basketball players hit their peak their Junior years and then once they become seniors, they kind of drop off?

I thought Admiral, Kyle Alexander, Santi, JJJ and Nkahmoua were all better during their 3rd year?
Click to expand...

It's just you..........
 
#13
#13
Vols till I fall said:
Is it me or does it seem like some Tennessee basketball players hit their peak their Junior years and then once they become seniors, they kind of drop off?

I thought Admiral, Kyle Alexander, Santi, JJJ and Nkahmoua were all better during their 3rd year?
Click to expand...
On current squad:
Nkamhoua has improved as a senior, IMO. Solid college player who would probably dominate in lower level. We actually have tried to make him a #1 option at times. Never did that previously.
Vescovi‘s shooting has worsened but that may be more of a factor of teams defending him better. But he has come miles as a defender. Playing his best defense now. And he rebounds well for a 2G who isn’t the most athletic guy on the floor.
Plavsic I daresay has even improved his senior year. Moves better …for him. Also defends better.
James, statically hasn’t changed much but his midrange game has improved and is pretty reliable. Injuries have hampered him and he has been putting up similar stats with fewer minutes.
Barnes has a solid rep in player development. Not sure he is built for the one and dones. Springer, Keon Johnson and Chandler ….would have loved to see them all with a 2nd year. An undervalued Grant Williams is easily on pace to have a better NBA career than those 3 five stars. Once basketball is your business, the opportunity to improve are there but NBA teams are impatient. Living life primarily in G-league is probably not that fun. Majority of those salaries aren’t great.
 
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#15
#15
vol94 said:
Key didn’t have to exude as much energy on defense until he came to TN. Barnes makes every player go 100mph on defense which can wear down a player on the offensive side.

Barnes does a better job developing three star unknowns (Grant, Admirlal, Bone, Pons, Santi, ZZ, etc) than elite five star players. Just my $.02, but many Texas fans say the same thing.

To answer your question, I don’t think it is a lack of player development but we don’t have an offensive identity and @ this level, most players can shoot. They can improve, but something is off w this team. I think they are tired or Santi and JJJ still injured. Hopefully they’ll turn it around.
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I don’t think you can hold the 5 star development against Barnes. Those are mostly one and done freshman players and that’s not really enough time for a coach to develop a player. If you gave Barnes players like Jaden Springer, Keon Johnson, and Kennedy Chandler for 3 or 4 seasons, do you not think they would develop just like Grant, Admiral, and Bone did? Not Tennessee but Kevin Durant would’ve been averaging 35 points as a junior or senior for Rick Barnes. The guy took Kevin Punter and took him from averaging 10ppg to 22ppg for crying out loud. The man’s player development should be the last thing people question.
 
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#16
#16
VolPack22 said:
I don’t think you can hold the 5 star development against Barnes. Those are mostly one and done freshman players and that’s not really enough time for a coach to develop a player. If you gave Barnes players like Jaden Springer, Keon Johnson, and Kennedy Chandler for 3 or 4 seasons, do you not think they would develop just like Grant, Admiral, and Bone did? Not Tennessee but Kevin Durant would’ve been averaging 35 points as a junior or senior for Rick Barnes. The guy took Kevin Punter and took him from averaging 10ppg to 22ppg for crying out loud. The man’s player development should be the last thing people question.
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And for as much as Barnes gets flack for that Durant team (do the research), Durant is the only unanimous freshman winner for the National Player of the Year. He averaged 26 points, 11 rebounds, 2 blocks, 2 steals. The problem with that team is that they had no upperclassmen contributors. Started 4 freshmen and a sophomore.
 
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#17
#17
WaywardVol said:
Key is a great example. He scored like 27 in that Gonzaga game. I had a friend that knows the game tell me how happy we’d be with Key because of his offense. He’s been beaten into a shell of himself under Barnes. There’s some players that do well under Barnes, but it’s pretty clear that Key has gotten worse the more times he’s been under Barnes coaching. His confidence is shot.
Click to expand...
This might be the worst Gonzaga team in about 10-12 years. Still a really good program but not the same caliber we have seen over the past several seasons. They have struggled against teams like Pacific that they would destroy any other year. That game shouldn’t be looked at in the same light as we previously thought in the preseason.
 
#19
#19
UneducatedGuess said:
It’s crazy, it’s almost like Key is hurt and Vescovi is battling a shoulder issue
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Love the sarcasm, but I think we tend to expect the same kind of gains they've had in the past, but they are pretty much maxed out already. Sure, they can add to their repertoire a bit, but it usually doesn't add a whole lot to their stats given that other teams have learned how to play against them.
 
#20
#20
These guys take good shots. They just dont go down. Barnes has went on record many times saying he wants Key to shoot more. Same with Phillips. Its not on Barnes players miss. Thats on the players. Sick and dang tired of the Barnes haters constantly complaining about his coaching. At least were not suffering through the 80s and 90s crap again. Who cares if we never reach a final four. At least our team isnt a crap show of 2 and 3 star players that couldnt start for a southern conference team.
 
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#21
#21
VolPack22 said:
This might be the worst Gonzaga team in about 10-12 years. Still a really good program but not the same caliber we have seen over the past several seasons. They have struggled against teams like Pacific that they would destroy any other year. That game shouldn’t be looked at in the same light as we previously thought in the preseason.
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Still a top 20 team.
I don’t care if he’d done it against sisters of the poor. The point is he has been a dead eye shooter all his life. This is a guy that had already eclipsed 1,000 points in his college career, led his league in scoring, and in high school set the season record for scoring in Tennessee. Upon arrival he appeared to be an unconscious shooter. A few months with Barnes and he’s infected with same horrible offensive sickness. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. The longer he’s been here the worse he’s become. It’s not like Barnes was inheriting a guy who had to rebuild his shot. He’s a plug and play guy.
Early in Barnes UT career we saw the opposite. Something has changed offensively and it’s not a good trend.
 
#22
#22
vol94 said:
Key didn’t have to exude as much energy on defense until he came to TN. Barnes makes every player go 100mph on defense which can wear down a player on the offensive side.

Barnes does a better job developing three star unknowns (Grant, Admirlal, Bone, Pons, Santi, ZZ, etc) than elite five star players. Just my $.02, but many Texas fans say the same thing.

To answer your question, I don’t think it is a lack of player development but we don’t have an offensive identity and @ this level, most players can shoot. They can improve, but something is off w this team. I think they are tired or Santi and JJJ still injured. Hopefully they’ll turn it around.
Click to expand...
Vescovi looks slower. Again, this was a guy that was an unconscious shooter when he got here and could score like crazy. It’s like he’s got a rucksack on him.
 
#24
#24
WaywardVol said:
Still a top 20 team.
I don’t care if he’d done it against sisters of the poor. The point is he has been a dead eye shooter all his life. This is a guy that had already eclipsed 1,000 points in his college career, led his league in scoring, and in high school set the season record for scoring in Tennessee. Upon arrival he appeared to be an unconscious shooter. A few months with Barnes and he’s infected with same horrible offensive sickness. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. The longer he’s been here the worse he’s become. It’s not like Barnes was inheriting a guy who had to rebuild his shot. He’s a plug and play guy.
Early in Barnes UT career we saw the opposite. Something has changed offensively and it’s not a good trend.
Click to expand...
You cant blame the coach for a guy not making his shot
 
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