Play calling was not the issue in lack of WR production against UF

[VolFootballIsLife]

This will probably be a lost cause but let's see if we can keep the discussion on topic for at least a few pages. In-game coaching decisions aside, play calling was actually a bright spot and not the reason for lack of WR production. Here's my take after listening to comments, coaches, players and going back to watch the game (as much as it pained me):

1) First and foremost, NOBODY had an issue with our play calling and gameplan until 4 minutes to go in the 4th. There's no way anyone can honestly say that. It was good enough to give us a 2 score lead with 10 min to go.

2) We owned the ground game and even with that being said we called over 25 passing plays. The reason they didn't produce was mainly OL. UF pass rush got in quick-3 sacks plenty of hurries. That caused Dobbs to either get rid of it quickly, scramble for his life, or abandon the play and run (sometimes a little too soon).

3) We actually threw the ball twice inside the red zone in the 4th with a lead: 10 yard curl completed to WR and the 50/50 ball caught by Von for a TD called back on a penalty. Not bad for aggressive play calling. Hurd eventually ran for the TD.

4) Kerbyson was right when referring to the 16 play 70+ yard drive when he stated we ran the ball 88% of that drive and they couldn't stop it...why would you stray from that.

5) 5 Scoring Drives against a very good D....no need to expand on that

In any case, play calling in that game was, in reality, excellent. It was very successful in fact. Bottom line: if I told you that this was the formula to put you up 2 scores mid way through the 4th in the Swamp to break the streak, why would you argue that considering how successful we were against a very solid D?

 

[joevol33]

I think just losing it we all picked anything we could to blame just cause we can't beat Florida.

 

[deaconkane]

Yeah, ok. we owned them? Lol. That team was struggling badly and learned how to win in that game. That coach will win more games than butch in his first year with butch in his 3rd. But hey, keep backing our coach with his poor offensive scheme and blame the players. Kudos, except quit blaming the players. I haven't ever seen players play this hard to win for such a losing coach. Maybe they are playing for themselves.

 

[advancedrescue27]

One of the complaints had been the OL, even last year. I know that's one of the key areas that could change the look of everything. Just wish to see some improvement there. It was terrible last year and has mostly continued this year. Seems simple enough of you are correct,fix that area and for the most part things should start to fall in line. If for whatever reason they've not strived hard enough to correct or game plan to suit the OL then shame on them.

I briefly tried to find the thread last night but I remember seeing there was a rumor a few weeks back that Debord thought we weren't starting the best line up on OL, and Butch put his foot down. If true maybe Debord is actually smarter than many of us assume.

 

[advancedrescue27]

Yeah, ok. we owned them? Lol. That team was struggling badly and learned how to win in that game. That coach will win more games than butch in his first year with butch in his 3rd. But hey, keep backing our coach with his poor offensive scheme and blame the players. Kudos, except quit blaming the players. I haven't ever seen players play this hard to win for such a losing coach. Maybe they are playing for themselves.

I do agree with this. The same run plays and pass out to the sideline/behind the LOS is getting old. Way to predictable.

 

[VolFootballIsLife]

Yeah, ok. we owned them? Lol. That team was struggling badly and learned how to win in that game. That coach will win more games than butch in his first year with butch in his 3rd. But hey, keep backing our coach with his poor offensive scheme and blame the players. Kudos, except quit blaming the players. I haven't ever seen players play this hard to win for such a losing coach. Maybe they are playing for themselves.

Actually, never referred to backing the coach or blaming players outside the OL was overmatched. This was a discussion on play calling. Did you even read the post?

 

[CA_Vol]

Good grief. We are 2-2 and our leading WR is a true freshman who had no Spring or Fall practice and got all his yards in one game. Offense is doing just great though...

 

[VolFootballIsLife]

I do agree with this. The same run plays and pass out to the sideline/behind the LOS is getting old. Way to predictable.

Point taken but again the run calls were very successful. The passing to sideline and behind the line is actually Josh hitting the hot routes. There are at least other guys running routes on those plays. It's just what I noticed while watching the tape again. Shows more of a problem with OL not protecting, WR not getting open, or Dobbs not taking any chances. He has other options in most of his pass attempts he just often chooses check downs and hot routes. He's not very good at hitting the second or third options or he doesn't have the time to look for them.

 

[deaconkane]

I do agree with this. The same run plays and pass out to the sideline/behind the LOS is getting old. Way to predictable.

I am not attacking anyone but 70 yards of rushing came in two plays were dobbs had to make 3 defenders miss each time behind the low. Every one of jalens runs were into the teeth of a 8 man front and he had more yards with people on his back than he did running cleanly. I am not a coach but I do understand that if you don't use the middle of the field in a passing game you will be lucky to win. The play calling is atrocious and it's due to a poor scheme. You beat the blitz with quick passes to the middle. This keeps the oline from having to block for 4-5 seconds. See Bowling green, Oklahoma and Florida during our games. They adapted and went for it. But not us. Not our coach. Worse yet, our receivers have never ran slants, crossing routes and things like that. Now that jones wants to pass everyone will blame the players when we have a rough time of it, but in reality if you never practice these routes it will take the rest of the year to get the timing down to where it should've been in year 1. Crazy man.

 

[deaconkane]

Point taken but again the run calls were very successful. The passing to sideline and behind the line is actually Josh hitting the hot routes. There are at least other guys running routes on those plays. It's just what I noticed while watching the tape again. Shows more of a problem with OL not protecting, WR not getting open, or Dobbs not taking any chances. He has other options in most of his pass attempts he just often chooses check downs and hot routes. He's not very good at hitting the second or third options or he doesn't have the time to look for them.

He doesn't have time. While you are watching that look at th middle of the field. Not one receiver.

The run calls were not successful. You can bet the d coordinator for Florida are using our running game tape as "3 missed tackles every time". How can the line suck if our running game is so dominate? Can't have it both ways.

 

[VolFootballIsLife]

Good grief. We are 2-2 and our leading WR is a true freshman who had no Spring or Fall practice and got all his yards in one game. Offense is doing just great though...

I would just point out that I didn't say our offense was a well oiled machine. Refer to my post above. I just think there are a lot of reasons our passing game sucks and play calling is probably 4th on that list.

 

[VolFootballIsLife]

He doesn't have time. While you are watching that look at th middle of the field. Not one receiver.

I do agree with the lack of slants. That is something I would change and word is that they focused on that in practice today. Not sure why it's taken so long.....that's on the coaches (should've implemented that earlier) and would help Dobbs more than likely.

All I'm trying to get across is play calling in this particular game was effective. We will need to find ways to get WR the ball starting this week and would've been helpful against OU. I just think we have issues with OL and more than likely Dobbs isn't the best progression passer. Makes it hard to execute the passing game.

 

[VolFootballIsLife]

He doesn't have time. While you are watching that look at th middle of the field. Not one receiver.

The run calls were not successful. You can bet the d coordinator for Florida are using our running game tape as "3 missed tackles every time". How can the line suck if our running game is so dominate? Can't have it both ways.

Actually you answered your own question earlier when you pointed out the individual effort by our rushers. You said without that we would've been blown out. Not trying to be a smart)&is but you can't have it both ways either. Mud there's a difference in run blocking and pass blocking.

 

[VolFootballIsLife]

I am not attacking anyone but 70 yards of rushing came in two plays were dobbs had to make 3 defenders miss each time behind the low. Every one of jalens runs were into the teeth of a 8 man front and he had more yards with people on his back than he did running cleanly. I am not a coach but I do understand that if you don't use the middle of the field in a passing game you will be lucky to win. The play calling is atrocious and it's due to a poor scheme. You beat the blitz with quick passes to the middle. This keeps the oline from having to block for 4-5 seconds. See Bowling green, Oklahoma and Florida during our games. They adapted and went for it. But not us. Not our coach. Worse yet, our receivers have never ran slants, crossing routes and things like that. Now that jones wants to pass everyone will blame the players when we have a rough time of it, but in reality if you never practice these routes it will take the rest of the year to get the timing down to where it should've been in year 1. Crazy man.

You make a lot good points. My only point is in this game in particular...it was good enough to give us a big lead in the 4th. Plus I mentioned earlier last week how the team that wins the rushing battle in this series almost always wins the game. That was ruined by bad in-gane coaching decisions and poor defensive execution in the 4th. Offense played well enough to win. I agree like most people about the middle of the field situation. Hope that gets corrected.

 

[VolFootballIsLife]

2am and going to bed. Thanks to everyone so far for having an open and honest discussion without insulting each other. Best discussion I've had in a long time on this site. If we don't get more of these soon I might be taking a break from reading forums. It's getting ugly around here...and that just breeds stupidity.

Hope to see more intelligent opinions on here tomorrow.

I've done enough talking..."I'll hang up and listen to your responses":birgits_giggle::snoring:

 

[MrBiggles]

This will probably be a lost cause but let's see if we can keep the discussion on topic for at least a few pages. In-game coaching decisions aside, play calling was actually a bright spot and not the reason for lack of WR production. Here's my take after listening to comments, coaches, players and going back to watch the game (as much as it pained me):

1) First and foremost, NOBODY had an issue with our play calling and gameplan until 4 minutes to go in the 4th. There's no way anyone can honestly say that. It was good enough to give us a 2 score lead with 10 min to go.

I think we ran the wrong way on the 2nd last drive. We scored off the left side and they dominated on that drive. We should have run to the left (which was also the wide side of the field) on first down and then given Dobbs the option to pass or run on the 2nd and 3rd down play.

 

[deaconkane]

You make a lot good points. My only point is in this game in particular...it was good enough to give us a big lead in the 4th. Plus I mentioned earlier last week how the team that wins the rushing battle in this series almost always wins the game. That was ruined by bad in-gane coaching decisions and poor defensive execution in the 4th. Offense played well enough to win. I agree like most people about the middle of the field situation. Hope that gets corrected.

Lol, that is true. I can't have it both ways either. Good points!

 

[SleepingGiantVols]

Dobbs 10 /17 ATT/COMP 83 YDS 4.9 AVG 0 TD 0 INT
44.6 QBR

Jauan Jennings 1/1 ATT/COMP 58 YDS 58.0 AVG 1 TD 0 INT
100.0 QBR

Alvin Kamara 1/1 ATT/COMP 24 YDS 24.0 AVG 0TD
0 INT 100.0 QBR

TEAM 12/19 ATT/COMP 165 YDS 8.7 AVG 1 TD 0 INT



This is the passing chart from the Florida game i have 1 major concern and that is Dobbs AVG 4.9 yards per attempt average if im a defensive coordinator i'm eating that up. that tells me i can afford to bring a safety blitz or i can afford to have the safeties playing as additional line backers. that's our offensive problem you gotta take a shot deep occasionaly and stretch the defense out. Does Dobbs have the arm for it tho?

 

[Vol865]

This will probably be a lost cause but let's see if we can keep the discussion on topic for at least a few pages. In-game coaching decisions aside, play calling was actually a bright spot and not the reason for lack of WR production. Here's my take after listening to comments, coaches, players and going back to watch the game (as much as it pained me):

1) First and foremost, NOBODY had an issue with our play calling and gameplan until 4 minutes to go in the 4th. There's no way anyone can honestly say that. It was good enough to give us a 2 score lead with 10 min to go.

2) We owned the ground game and even with that being said we called over 25 passing plays. The reason they didn't produce was mainly OL. UF pass rush got in quick-3 sacks plenty of hurries. That caused Dobbs to either get rid of it quickly, scramble for his life, or abandon the play and run (sometimes a little too soon).

3) We actually threw the ball twice inside the red zone in the 4th with a lead: 10 yard curl completed to WR and the 50/50 ball caught by Von for a TD called back on a penalty. Not bad for aggressive play calling. Hurd eventually ran for the TD.

4) Kerbyson was right when referring to the 16 play 70+ yard drive when he stated we ran the ball 88% of that drive and they couldn't stop it...why would you stray from that.

5) 5 Scoring Drives against a very good D....no need to expand on that

In any case, play calling in that game was, in reality, excellent. It was very successful in fact. Bottom line: if I told you that this was the formula to put you up 2 scores mid way through the 4th in the Swamp to break the streak, why would you argue that considering how successful we were against a very solid D?

You can't honestly tell me you have been happy with the passing game at any point this year during a game that actually mattered. Hell I wasn't even happy with most of the passing game against WCU but at least we threw something down the field and over the middle. The 3 yard hitch for 85% of thegame BS is getting old. Our QB had like 25 yds at half time. There were a lot of lucky plays that kept drives alive. It sure as hell wasn't playcalling. Want an example? Josh Dobbs spinning and flying through the air on 3rd down to barely cross the chains.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

Yeah, ok. we owned them? Lol. That team was struggling badly and learned how to win in that game. That coach will win more games than butch in his first year with butch in his 3rd. But hey, keep backing our coach with his poor offensive scheme and blame the players. Kudos, except quit blaming the players. I haven't ever seen players play this hard to win for such a losing coach. Maybe they are playing for themselves.

The kids won the game, and then the coach lost it. Twice in two weeks. In his third year season. But don't worry, Butch just needs a few more years to get his charts in order. Then, watch out world..

 

[21VOL]

I wish we would scrap the read option crap or whatever Butch calls his offense. Run a more pro style offense.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

So you see that your OL is struggling, you call plays to help the team out. Its called making adjustments and its obvious Butch made none.

 

[easttnvol14]

The issue is with 4:00 minutes to go, FL put 9 guys in the box and sold out to stop run. We refused to attempt to get a 1st. Even though it worked earlier, those plays calls should have changed due to FL and situation. We chose to put a tired defense on field with all the weight/pressure of a 10 yr streak & hope they hold. A few safe passes in open zones (due ro 9 in box) ends game. GarbAge excuse "those plays worked earlier." Apple and oranges considering situation.

 

[blacksheep]

What makes a play work is physical domination or it is not expected. The reason the halfback jump pass worked so well it was unexpected by Fla. The reason the run plays struggled at the end is they were expected. When predictability is present the only formula for success you have left is physical domination.

 

[gasguy98]

This will probably be a lost cause but let's see if we can keep the discussion on topic for at least a few pages. In-game coaching decisions aside, play calling was actually a bright spot and not the reason for lack of WR production. Here's my take after listening to comments, coaches, players and going back to watch the game (as much as it pained me):

1) First and foremost, NOBODY had an issue with our play calling and gameplan until 4 minutes to go in the 4th. There's no way anyone can honestly say that. It was good enough to give us a 2 score lead with 10 min to go.

2) We owned the ground game and even with that being said we called over 25 passing plays. The reason they didn't produce was mainly OL. UF pass rush got in quick-3 sacks plenty of hurries. That caused Dobbs to either get rid of it quickly, scramble for his life, or abandon the play and run (sometimes a little too soon).

3) We actually threw the ball twice inside the red zone in the 4th with a lead: 10 yard curl completed to WR and the 50/50 ball caught by Von for a TD called back on a penalty. Not bad for aggressive play calling. Hurd eventually ran for the TD.

4) Kerbyson was right when referring to the 16 play 70+ yard drive when he stated we ran the ball 88% of that drive and they couldn't stop it...why would you stray from that.

5) 5 Scoring Drives against a very good D....no need to expand on that

In any case, play calling in that game was, in reality, excellent. It was very successful in fact. Bottom line: if I told you that this was the formula to put you up 2 scores mid way through the 4th in the Swamp to break the streak, why would you argue that considering how successful we were against a very solid D?

Well you can analyze this to death but the fact is we have had 2 identical collapses against teams we should have defeated. There is no way that is a coincidence.