Perception of Butch

#27
#27
He was praised early.... not toward the end.

Jones to this point is far more hype than performance. Not surprising if someone actually said what the OP suggests.... and they aren't wrong.

Funny thing is that I still remember the"stick with Dooley" posters on VN all the way almost to the bitter end. Up until he lost to Kentucky anyway. There will always be someone defending the coach no matter how bad it gets.

That said, I am willing to see how the r3st of the season pans out. My fear is that CBJ takes the brakes off and the team plays gangbusters to the end of the year, all is forgiven, we have a petty good signing day, CBJ gets to feeling safe again and we start off 2017 with high hopes again just to see them dashe'd.

Repeat ad nauseum
 
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#28
#28
Asked a buddy who is the SID at another SEC school if Butch is respected around the league. His replied, "No. Hype man."

I hope I am wrong, but I fear we have peaked with him.

Although past performance is no guarantee of future performance it can shed light on what to expect going forward.

Positives:
1. Butch has improved the win total each year at TN and can still do that this year by winning out the regular season and winning the bowl game. Best case scenario for Butch and TN is for the VOLS to win 5 in a row.
2. If the foregoing is accomplished TN should finish strong in recruiting with a Top 10 class for 2017.
3. The negativity surrounding Butch and his gameday coaching inadequacies declines with each win.

Negatives:
1. Butch is getting called out in the media and being questioned more so now than ever. For example, "Jones is our Hoke", "Jones program at crossroads with 25 players gone" Jones attempts to soothe VOLS fans has opposite effect" etc. Why is this a negative? because they are negative headlines and recruits are aware TN is making the news-negatively
2. His overall record is slightly above avg at 26-20, SEC:12-17, Power 5 Conf schools with .500 or better his record is 8-18
3. The recent USCjr loss was very bad because of what was potentially at stake

If Jones can guide the VOLS to five straight wins including the bowl win he most definitely gets another year probably at least two. I realize the four remaining games are not the best but UK is playing well and that is no gimme. If Jones wins out, there will be no more talk about replacing him for firing him etc in my opinion.

My hope is Jones and the VOLS win out.

GO VOLS!!!
 
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#29
#29
I agree. We could still be successful if Butch would hire top notch assistants/coordinators and give them control of the X and O stuff. He would then be a CEO type coach that's good at recruiting, PR, and cliches.

In a perfect world, but there are a lot of moving pieces to this idea starting with him. A lot of concessions would have to be made on some very important parts for it to work right. 4 years in, I don't think he is willing to do what you have to, to make that work.
 
#30
#30
Although past performance is no guarantee of future performance it can shed light on what to expect going forward.

Positives:
1. Butch has improved the win total each year at TN and can still do that this year by winning out the regular season and winning the bowl game. Best case scenario for Butch and TN is for the VOLS to win 5 in a row.
2. If the foregoing is accomplished TN should finish strong in recruiting with a Top 10 class for 2017.
3. The negativity surrounding Butch and his gameday coaching inadequacies declines with each win.

Negatives:
1. Butch is getting called out in the media and being questioned more so now than ever. For example, "Jones is our Hoke", "Jones program at crossroads with 25 players gone" Jones attempts to soothe VOLS fans has opposite effect" etc. Why is this a negative because they are negative headlines and recruits are aware TN is making the news-negatively
2. His overall record is slightly above avg at 26-20, SEC:12-17, Power 5 Conf schools with .500 or better his record is 8-18
3. The recent USCjr loss was very bad because of what was potentially at stake

If Jones can guide the VOLS to five straight wins including the bowl win he most definitely gets another year probably at least two. I realize the four remaining games are not the best but UK is playing well and that is no gimme. If Jones wins out there will be no more talk about replacing him for firing him etc in my opinion.

GO VOLS!!!

CBJ isn't going anywhere, barring them not losing every game left and the players launching a full revolt. Anything short of that, which isn't going to happen, is not worth discussing.
 
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#31
#31
Agree he has some image problems especially now. He sure looked good after beating Florida and Georgia.

I gave him his credit for those wins, but let's be honest, they were filled with a lot of the same issues we've griped about all year. I'm thankful he got us over the hump against the Gators, and the comeback was impressive. The Georgia game came down to a low percentage play by a very special receiver. Good coaching would have kept us from needing a Hail Mary. I've supported him, as I stated I would, since he split the gauntlet of ranked SEC, but I can't once he squandered it against a hapless SC.

It seems the SID quoted in the OP is just saying what many of us fear to.
 
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#33
#33
CBJ isn't going anywhere, barring them not losing every game left and the players launching a full revolt. Anything short of that, which isn't going to happen, is not worth discussing.

He should be fired before he loses complete control.
 
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#34
#34
Funny thing is that I still remember the"stick with Dooley" posters on VN all the way almost to the bitter end. Up until he lost to Kentucky anyway. There will always be someone defending the coach no matter how bad it gets.

That said, I am willing to see how the r3st of the season pans out. My fear is that CBJ takes the brakes off and the team plays gangbusters to the end of the year, all is forgiven, we have a petty good signing day, CBJ gets to feeling safe again and we start off 2017 with high hopes again just to see them dashe'd.

Repeat ad nauseum

CBJ is our coach for this season, nexxt season, and a good possibility for 2018.

This year, my take was formed by our split of the gauntlet (as expected). My final grade will be the recruiting class this year. It's gotta be stellar or we will slip another notch in the coming years.
 
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#35
#35
I agree. We could still be successful if Butch would hire top notch assistants/coordinators and give them control of the X and O stuff. He would then be a CEO type coach that's good at recruiting, PR, and cliches.

This ^^

Would he succeed with a top notch OC/DC? Who knows. He would have to make home run hires every 2-4 years when those assistants take off for HC gigs is the only concern. I still say it could work.
 
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#36
#36
Funny thing is that I still remember the"stick with Dooley" posters on VN all the way almost to the bitter end. Up until he lost to Kentucky anyway. There will always be someone defending the coach no matter how bad it gets.

That said, I am willing to see how the r3st of the season pans out. My fear is that CBJ takes the brakes off and the team plays gangbusters to the end of the year, all is forgiven, we have a petty good signing day, CBJ gets to feeling safe again and we start off 2017 with high hopes again just to see them dashe'd.

Repeat ad nauseum

Seems to be the MO. I can see that working around here for quite sometime.
 
#38
#38
Adversity. Bottom line is how he deals with it. If Butch is able to win out and unite the team, that will go far.
He has literally danced with disaster this year. Ap state was a frogs hair from a loss. UGA he escapes with an improbable win.

However, if the team continues with sloppy, uninspired play, it will likely lose another game or two, go to a meaningless bowl and you'll see mass defections in the off-season and a hit to recruiting.

in that case, making off season staff changes becomes a challenge, due to climate around the program.

His recent comments and insults in media settings don't speak well IMO.
 
#40
#40
CBJ isn't going anywhere, barring them not losing every game left and the players launching a full revolt. Anything short of that, which isn't going to happen, is not worth discussing.

Never underestimate the power of the masses. A big factor that drove Fulmer and Dooley out, aside from their records, was the large drop in attendance for home games losing millions in revenue.

Do I think he gets fired? No. I think they finish strong by wining 5 straight and recruiting finishes strong.

GO VOLS!!!
 
#41
#41
great salesmen. but not enough product to back it up. at some point, they stop buying.

if you want to take a business like approach....most companies do not let the sales people run the company. you have to have the sales people, they provide the means for the company to continue to run.

but you have to have an operations team to give them something to sell.

so let Butch sell, and bring in the best operators to keep pushing product out....

very simplistic way of looking at it. but that's where we are imo. the managing of personalities, game management, over all football philosophy etc....turn that over to the ops managers. leaders that fail to realize their shortcomings, and do something about it, don't remain leaders very long.

i had a boss like that, he knew exactly where his shortcomings were, and he made it a point to surround himself with people that shared different perspectives and views, so that he reduced the chances of making narrow minded decisions. not always successful mind you, but at least he knew himself well enough to know that if he didn't, his company wouldn't last very long.
 
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#42
#42
Lyle reminds me a little of Houston Nutt. Loves the school, good recruiter, can pump up the fanbase, but a slave to cliches and not a very good game day coach.

That seems harsh, but until proven otherwise, it's hard to argue with that assessment.. This is two years in a row where he's lost a game that he shouldn't have where the team looked uninspired.

Has he been good for the program? Absolutely.

Is he the guy to finish the job? It's getting harder to say.
 
#43
#43
Perceptions of Butch....

Nov 8, 2008 = Nov 26, 2011 = Oct 29, 2016

Fulmer = Dooley = Jones

Lost to:

Wyoming.....Kentucky.....South Carolina

Butch had huge "fan-capital" with the "Ws" over UF and UGA. He spent 30% of it at Tam with what should have been a "W". He spent what he had left with the "L" to USCe and went negative. If he loses again, people will point to USCe - much like they did to Wyoming and Kentucky with the previous two coaches. The perceptions of "poor coaching / under-preparation" will haunt what was becoming a magical season.
 
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#44
#44
great salesmen. but not enough product to back it up. at some point, they stop buying.

if you want to take a business like approach....most companies do not let the sales people run the company. you have to have the sales people, they provide the means for the company to continue to run.

but you have to have an operations team to give them something to sell.

so let Butch sell, and bring in the best operators to keep pushing product out....

very simplistic way of looking at it. but that's where we are imo. the managing of personalities, game management, over all football philosophy etc....turn that over to the ops managers. leaders that fail to realize their shortcomings, and do something about it, don't remain leaders very long.

i had a boss like that, he knew exactly where his shortcomings were, and he made it a point to surround himself with people that shared different perspectives and views, so that he reduced the chances of making narrow minded decisions. not always successful mind you, but at least he knew himself well enough to know that if he didn't, his company wouldn't last very long.

I once had a boss tell me that you should always surround yourself with managers smarter than yourself and with varying views of life. He had a saying that was "if you enter a room thinking you are the smartest person in the room, youre in the wrong room." How do you grow as a person if you always think you are the smartest person there?
 
#45
#45
What the he!! would a SID know about actual coaching. The jury is still out on Butch IMO, but your buddies opinion means nothing.

My oldest is a senior journalism major and works in the SID department at his school. They know all the coaches at their schools very well. Most know all the media and schedule the interviews for coaches and players as well as PR info for the athletes. Trust me they hear quite a bit.
 
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#46
#46
CBJ is our coach for this season, nexxt season, and a good possibility for 2018.
.

As of today I wouldn't say its a good possibility he's back for 18'.

If the SC game is an indication of where this team is and he drops one more this year, they have essentially played their way out of contention for the east and may finish behind UK and UF. That puts him a precarious situation heading into 17'. The pressure (which I think is problem with him) will reach a level he has yet to see here which I don't think he will handle very well.
 
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#47
#47
Where ya been, Slacker?

I posted some props to you in the Dobbs interceptions thread.

A little disappointed with Jones and the team so I tried to wait until it wouldn't just be an emotional reaction.

But personally, my mom who lived with us declined and then died from lung cancer last month. We had to do some traveling back to NC for her memorial.

Work has been a bear too. We're dealing with some changes in response to market conditions that are very difficult.

Probably more than you wanted.... but that's me, right?

If you're a believer, please keep me in your prayers.
 
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#48
#48
A little disappointed with Jones and the team so I tried to wait until it wouldn't just be an emotional reaction.

But personally, my mom who lived with us declined and then died from lung cancer last month. We had to do some traveling back to NC for her memorial.

Work has been a bear too. We're dealing with some changes in response to market conditions that are very difficult.

Probably more than you wanted.... but that's me, right?

If you're a believer, please keep me in your prayers.

Will the force be with you.
 
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#49
#49
Funny thing is that I still remember the"stick with Dooley" posters on VN all the way almost to the bitter end. Up until he lost to Kentucky anyway. There will always be someone defending the coach no matter how bad it gets.
I argued that Dooley should have no criticism until he'd gotten his 3 years. I was wrong. There is nothing wrong with honest, objective criticism. It isn't like people who aren't fans don't notice if you don't do it. And if they notice.... recruits will see it too.

That said, I am willing to see how the r3st of the season pans out. My fear is that CBJ takes the brakes off and the team plays gangbusters to the end of the year, all is forgiven, we have a petty good signing day, CBJ gets to feeling safe again and we start off 2017 with high hopes again just to see them dashe'd.

Repeat ad nauseum

That's a legitimate fear. But I have to believe that someone will be in his ear and that there will be significant and maybe wholesale changes on the O staff. Unless Jones allows the OC to run his O.... not much will change. But I have to believe the warning will be given that it "better" work.
 
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#50
#50
Dawg fans are scared of Butch, or at least that's how it felt by the Water cooler during the week before they played you guys.
 
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