Over-recruiting question

#26
#26
Fear the Tree!! heh heh

Well what you wrote is true and how it is supposed to work year to year.

But the question was: If somehow a Div I team wound up with only 40 (fourty) scholarship players at the end of the year, can they sign more than the 25 limit and say they could backcount 5 to get to 30. They would only be at 70. Are they limited to that? Can they add the remaining 15 that year to get to 85 under a special rule? Or is it tough cookies and work your way back up?

How would a team wind up 45 scholly players short of the 85 limit unless disaster struck like it did Marshall?
 
#27
#27
Orangedogsrule said:
That's a really good question and I don't know the answer. I never thought about it. I mean, with back counting EE's, and all (and all here is, "I don't know all the rules and caveats that let coaches go way over the 25 man limit"), how in blazes could a school get down to a 40 scholly roster.

Does anyone know what the average graduation attrition is for Div I schools? Add a few career ending injuries, dismissals, etc. and I still don't see getting down 40 without catastrophic events such as Marshall's.
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If memory serves me correctly, 40% is the average attrition rate nationwide, which means that 40% of any signing class will not conclude their eligibility at the university with which they originally signed, whether it be due to academic/legal problems, transfer, early entry to the NFL draft, injury, etc.

Incidentally, we were down to about 67 athletes on scholarship when Dooley assumed the reins, which necessitated an avoid-academic-washout-at-all-costs recruiting policy just to bring our numbers back to an even footing with other FBS programs. The attrition we experienced as a result of the Fulmer-Kiffin-Dooley transition was equivalent in terms of scholarship losses to a major probation sentence by the NCAA.
 
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#28
#28
Orangedogsrule said:
Fear the Tree!! heh heh

Well what you wrote is true and how it is supposed to work year to year.

But the question was: If somehow a Div I team wound up with only 40 (fourty) scholarship players at the end of the year, can they sign more than the 25 limit and say they could backcount 5 to get to 30. They would only be at 70. Are they limited to that? Can they add the remaining 15 that year to get to 85 under a special rule? Or is it tough cookies and work your way back up?

How would a team wind up 45 scholly players short of the 85 limit unless disaster struck like it did Marshall?
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I don't know why a school would wind up 45 scholarships short of the limit, but - if it did - it couldn't make up the entire difference in one recruiting class. If there weren't any limit on the number of scholarships available for each recruiting class, unscrupulous coaches might be more tempted than they already are to "clean house" by unfairly revoking the scholarships of current players.
 
#29
#29
Tenlax47 said:
"Based on Voyager observations, the total mass of the rings was estimated to be about 3 x 1019 kg" (Wikipedia)
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Then by my calculations we have -2.999*10^19 scholarships. I don't think Butch gets it anymore. He's way over the limit.
 
#32
#32
livefaith said:
Whatchutawkinbout? That fax machine is going to look like one of those trout rearing pools up in the Smokeys when they toss in a bucket of feed! :yes:

Hope they have the fax cam again BTW.
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Fax Machine??? That's so 80's and 90's. Do they not have a scanner and email? That's a much more efficient way to communicate. Who still uses a fax machine?
 
#33
#33
gunner said:
Fax Machine??? That's so 80's and 90's. Do they not have a scanner and email? That's a much more efficient way to communicate. Who still uses a fax machine?
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Many businesses still do. Fax machines are still around.
 
#36
#36
I'm not trying to be negative but I wanna say this... People are all excited and saying help is on the way. That we will get better players. Yea we are a top 5 class but only cause we are taking more than everyone else. If we signed the avg like the 22-25 range, we would end up closer to the back end of top 25 recruiting class. With an avg star rating just over 3. I love how active our recruiting is and the fact many more players are interested in us. And the positive energy. But in my opinion we really aren't getting a top 5 class. We're getting a top 25 class with a few extra guys.
 
#37
#37
ERvolsfan said:
I'm not trying to be negative but I wanna say this... People are all excited and saying help is on the way. That we will get better players. Yea we are a top 5 class but only cause we are taking more than everyone else. If we signed the avg like the 22-25 range, we would end up closer to the back end of top 25 recruiting class. With an avg star rating just over 3. I love how active our recruiting is and the fact many more players are interested in us. And the positive energy. But in my opinion we really aren't getting a top 5 class. We're getting a top 25 class with a few extra guys.
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Rivals counts the top 20 players..... so those extra dont count if I remember right
We will be top 10.
 
#38
#38
Well I know we will end top 10 come NSD. But I didn't know that about how many of the class the count. I know some do it on a point system. But I'm just saying if we did it by avg star rating we it would be 3 something. I'm just saying also, if we only signed 20-25 that we would probably finish in the recruiting rankings 20-25. Which really isn't better than he who shall not be named. However I will say CBJ. Has built better relationship with HS coaches, and is a better talent evaluator, but just looking at face value, even though we will be ranked a top 10 class we really getting a top 25 class, unless your right about they only rank you based upon your top 20 commits.

Now also if we somehow pull a rabbit out of the hat, and get a commit or two from another 5* or two. Then that will help comfort me. I'm just worried that this class talent wise really isn't much different if you look at how I've broke it down
 
#39
#39
One major similarity- only the top 20 commitments in each class are considered in the main variable of the formula. Both have bonuses for players ranked nationally, but the new formula accounts for the Rivals250. The old formula had bonuses for the Rivals100.

JUCO and Prep School national rankings do not have bonuses. Only those prospect's RR rating will be considered in the point calculation.
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Because of our huge JUCO class, it could actually be higher if they used the bonus system like the top 20 high school players
 
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#40
#40
I wanna apologize to my fellow vols fans, not trying to be negative. I'm normally very positive. And patient. But I just been thinking about this today. Cause when "he" was here despite "his bad ways" we still landed a top 25 class each of his 3 years. So I'm hoping that this class is as advertised!
 
#41
#41
ERvolsfan, I'm not sure where you are getting your data, but, if you sort Rivals.com's top 25 (College Sports: Rivals.com), based on average rating, we currently come in 8th overall at 3.55. We also lead the nation in 4-star recruits with 16. I believe that you are seriously underestimating the overall talent in this class.

Furthermore, all indications are that this class remains fluid in terms of its final composition; we remain hot and heavy in the hunt for additional defensive linemen, particularly JUCOs, and we fully anticipate landing Josh Malone, who almost certainly will wind up as a 5-star prospect. He currently has 67 receptions for 1366 yards and 19 touchdowns.
 
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#42
#42
Plus jucos don't get the extra bonus points hs players get. We are focusing on juco heavily so keep that in mind
 
#43
#43
Like I said I was just going primarily off of opinion, I apologize for not digging up info and facts. Thanks for the info.

Yea I love the energy and momentum we have in recruiting. A lot of top recruits are giving us a strong look which is an improvement. But i do believe if we are gonna get back to competing amongst the best. We are gonna have to start landing 5 star elite players. Not as a whole. But we need to have those few elite players that push us over the top. But I do want yal to understand I am a positive person, I just wanted to hear others opinions of our overall recruiting class, I still believe in our coach and his plan for our program, once we have the speed and athletes that will be a true measuring stick for our program.
 
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