Our Assistant Coaches blasted on TOS

[xpsyclonex2002]

I can't disagree with this. Pruitt did not create this mess. However, the bottom line is, if we don't start winning soon we might as well get out of the SEC. We are going to have such a bare cupboard and such a forest of undeveloped talent that we either have to show right now that we can play in the SEC or just get the heck out. This isn't like it used to be 15 years ago period once you're on the bottom, the world is working to hold you there . when Kentucky start beating up on Florida, then you know the times are A-Changin . when Vanderbilt is ritually kicking our butt, The Times They Are A-Changin . I think the days of just hiring a coach and all of your problems going away and I've just about ran its course . We have two years to make ourselves SEC East contenders or else it's game over

 

[jakez4ut]

Finishing on top 25 would be great.

wait, right now we're ranked 31st, and that's not good enough, so much so, that yesterday you felt compelled to call the coaches out on their poor performance in recruiting here.

now today, FINISHING in the top 25 is now great? so if we move up just 6 spots from today over the next 6 months, you're good???

 

[jakez4ut]

I can't disagree with this. Pruitt did not create this mess. However, the bottom line is, if we don't start winning soon we might as well get out of the SEC. We are going to have such a bare cupboard and such a forest of undeveloped talent that we either have to show right now that we can play in the SEC or just get the heck out. This isn't like it used to be 15 years ago period once you're on the bottom, the world is working to hold you there . when Kentucky start beating up on Florida, then you know the times are A-Changin . when Vanderbilt is ritually kicking our butt, The Times They Are A-Changin . I think the days of just hiring a coach and all of your problems going away and I've just about ran its course . We have two years to make ourselves SEC East contenders or else it's game over

as long as we don't overreact or anything.

 

[Behr]

Lulz. A two'fer.

 

[VolInNW]

as long as we don't overreact or anything.

I don't think we are totally in the danger zone just yet, but Minnesota probably didn't feel that way either, and they waited too long to correct.

At some point, we do become Minnesota. Not quite yet, and we have a better chance to turn it around than they did, but at some point, even a storied program can slip into permanent mediocrity.

 

[de1conley]

Threads about how disappointing our “supposed elite recruiters” have been.
Everyone but Niedermeyer getting criticized.
Saying that many came from big successful programs that had strong in state bases and were easy to recruit to. Some saying Pruitt is really pissed off right now.
Do they have a point or is the latest decommit just bringing out the usual negavols.

People are so bent out of shape because they don't understand a true recruiter vs a very good teacher of the game at a certain position that works at a place in which its very east to recruit. I have said it before this staff is not a collection of great recruiters. You have 2 prior to arrival that were NROY and that's CJP and CTM. Recently Nieds got it so that makes 3 on staff now. Its not hard to recruit at Auburn, Ga, or Fla, so in assuming that all the coaches hired were super recruiters they weren't. Rocker and Rump are very good position coaches whom of which are very technical. Weinke who knows, Johnson blah but brings great energy, Sherrer MEH, Ansley is good but he wasn't a stud until he went and put on the Bama gear.

 

[jakez4ut]

I don't think we are totally in the danger zone just yet, but Minnesota probably didn't feel that way either, and they waited too long to correct.

At some point, we do become Minnesota. Not quite yet, and we have a better chance to turn it around than they did, but at some point, even a storied program can slip into permanent mediocrity.

Minnesota?

lol.

we've sucked for a long time, so i get it. but if you just take a second and look at hte landscape of TN football and take in to account the structural changes in leadership that have taken place and the investments the program is making in football right now in terms of "people"; on field coaches and coordinators, QC's, Analysts, S&C, nutrition, medical and traning staff etc, etc, etc....

it's just a whole different deal than it was just two years ago.

it's not a gurantee of success, but one of the primary issues this program has had for more than a decade was organizationally, and everyone being on the same page, with the same purpose/goals.

if nothing else, that's been addressed. and is at least a good place to start from as this program has baically hit the re set button on hte last 10 years. and if i'm being honest, it's one of the, if not the, chief reason behind my level of optimism for the future.

all that said, we do need to see it unfold on the field. and while no one should expect anything resembling titles right now, i think it's certainly fair to expect this program to be competitive w/in the league, especially with anyone not named Bama/GA....and i think we start to see that this year.....hope so anyway.

 

[08Vol]

Not all recruits are into “helped us turn the program around labels”. Getting us above .500 isn’t that exciting. Just saying. Better coach em up like Kentucky did and that 9/10 wins will solve the problem.

And this is why I think Pruitt will he fired during or just after his 4th season. He wasn’t brought in b/c he was a good coach, he was brought in b/c he was a good recruiter. Most of his staff was hired for recruiting ability, instead of coaching ability. Fulmer’s philosophy is “Jimmy’s and Joe’s” win games.

Pruitt has shown he can coach top talent but he has never shown he can coach up middle tier talent. His tenure will end with a whole host of game changing 5* players having the Vols in their top 2 or 3 but deciding to go with established teams with proven winners at the top.

 

[jakez4ut]

And this is why I think Pruitt will he fired during or just after his 4th season. He wasn’t brought in b/c he was a good coach, he was brought in b/c he was a good recruiter. Most of his staff was hired for recruiting ability, instead of coaching ability. Fulmer’s philosophy is “Jimmy’s and Joe’s” win games.

Pruitt has shown he can coach top talent but he has never shown he can coach up middle tier talent. His tenure will end with a whole host of game changing 5* players having the Vols in their top 2 or 3 but deciding to go with established teams with proven winners at the top.

dishing out hot takes like m&m's around here....lol.

 

[08Vol]

It takes some mental gymnastics to explain away how we finish in the top 10 last year, and can't catch a break now.

We don't have any less "credibility" than we did in December.

We didn’t finish in the top 10. We were 12th. And there were 6 SEC teams ahead of us.

 

[butchna]

I can't disagree with this. Pruitt did not create this mess. However, the bottom line is, if we don't start winning soon we might as well get out of the SEC. We are going to have such a bare cupboard and such a forest of undeveloped talent that we either have to show right now that we can play in the SEC or just get the heck out. This isn't like it used to be 15 years ago period once you're on the bottom, the world is working to hold you there . when Kentucky start beating up on Florida, then you know the times are A-Changin . when Vanderbilt is ritually kicking our butt, The Times They Are A-Changin . I think the days of just hiring a coach and all of your problems going away and I've just about ran its course . We have two years to make ourselves SEC East contenders or else it's game over

Bye.

 

[Gandalf]

What did I leave out? Amount of the bonus? $234,000. He had a choice to go all-in with us or or not and he chose not, for $234,000. Just a fact.

I am sorry but this post is just silly. Surely it couldnt be that he was there to win another NC ring? Its not about $200 friggen K. I am sure he knew with the team he was going into it might be another year or two before he got there again. Meanwhile, part of the reason recruits see him as a "defensive guru" is the crushing of GA's offense that he did in that game.

 

[Ten_Titans]

We didn’t finish in the top 10. We were 12th. And there were 6 SEC teams ahead of us.

Ah, yes. 12th. I stand corrected. In that case 12 and 31 are basically the same number.

Carry on!

 

[photovol]

One of the dumbest things I've read on here today. Although that doesn't seem to be saying alot, it is.

You're wrong and it's not worth arguing. Carry on.

5 out of 7
It is what it is

 

[VolInNW]

Minnesota?

lol.

we've sucked for a long time, so i get it. but if you just take a second and look at hte landscape of TN football and take in to account the structural changes in leadership that have taken place and the investments the program is making in football right now in terms of "people"; on field coaches and coordinators, QC's, Analysts, S&C, nutrition, medical and traning staff etc, etc, etc....

it's just a whole different deal than it was just two years ago.

it's not a gurantee of success, but one of the primary issues this program has had for more than a decade was organizationally, and everyone being on the same page, with the same purpose/goals.

if nothing else, that's been addressed. and is at least a good place to start from as this program has baically hit the re set button on hte last 10 years. and if i'm being honest, it's one of the, if not the, chief reason behind my level of optimism for the future.

all that said, we do need to see it unfold on the field. and while no one should expect anything resembling titles right now, i think it's certainly fair to expect this program to be competitive w/in the league, especially with anyone not named Bama/GA....and i think we start to see that this year.....hope so anyway.

Fair points, and all I want this year is 7 wins and no blowout losses. 4 OOC and 3 SEC (UK, Vandy, and either USC or MO) seems very doable. 8 would be awesome, 9 a miracle. 6 would get us to a bowl, but I would feel disappointed, as that would likely mean we dropped both the USC and MO games.

That said, if we win the 4 OOC and only 1 SEC, and finish 5-7 again.....we have a problem. I don't see Pruitt et al being able to build a class off that. And if we drop the BYU game (which is a possibility) it is going to be a VERY long season.

 

[VolforFootball]

wait, right now we're ranked 31st, and that's not good enough, so much so, that yesterday you felt compelled to call the coaches out on their poor performance in recruiting here.

now today, FINISHING in the top 25 is now great? so if we move up just 6 spots from today over the next 6 months, you're good???

I wasn't calling anyone out as much as pointing out an observation that I don't have a lot of emotion invested in. But considering our situation, coming off of a 5-7 record, finishing this year in the top 25 would be considered a success.

However, that's not to say that if we went 10-2, being in the top 25 in recruiting wouldn't be ideal. I'd want to see better recruiting based on success. But, given our current situation, finishing in the top 25 would be great.

 

[Wezcoast]

Minnesota?

lol.

we've sucked for a long time, so i get it. but if you just take a second and look at hte landscape of TN football and take in to account the structural changes in leadership that have taken place and the investments the program is making in football right now in terms of "people"; on field coaches and coordinators, QC's, Analysts, S&C, nutrition, medical and traning staff etc, etc, etc....

it's just a whole different deal than it was just two years ago.

it's not a gurantee of success, but one of the primary issues this program has had for more than a decade was organizationally, and everyone being on the same page, with the same purpose/goals.

if nothing else, that's been addressed. and is at least a good place to start from as this program has baically hit the re set button on hte last 10 years. and if i'm being honest, it's one of the, if not the, chief reason behind my level of optimism for the future.

all that said, we do need to see it unfold on the field. and while no one should expect anything resembling titles right now, i think it's certainly fair to expect this program to be competitive w/in the league, especially with anyone not named Bama/GA....and i think we start to see that this year.....hope so anyway.

I think what he means is a streak or string of bad luck/bad AD can last long enough to bury anybody. Our problem is several other SEC programs have a lot of momentum that have recruited and played at a high level for a long time . We could get just the right group of guys together and be the next juggernaut , but we don't have just one big hill to climb.

 

[08Vol]

that makes more sense than the other post.

to me it's real simple. this just isn't going to happen as fast as some people think it should. there is no program saving class on the horizon that's goign to have us competing for conf titles next year.

we're gonna have develop and build it up. once we get it back, at least to that 2nd tier, then it'll be up to the recruiting to put us on level ground with bama, ga, etc....

that first post sounded a lot like you were saying "well saban did it, Stoops did it, so and so did it in year 2, so we should too" like the situations were comparable.

I think this message speaks to the heart of where fans are on this issue. The side you’re on thinks this is a slow build with improvements happening over the course of many years. A learn to walk before you run approach.

The side I’m on is the current climate of SEC football doesn’t allow for the slow build. Due to the multi million dollar coaching contracts and nature of recruits, success has to either happen quickly or it won’t happen at all. In the first year a coach can preach rebuilding, installing his system, a new culture of winning, and immediate playing time. If there isn’t signs of that happening early on then top recruits will be hesitant to take a chance after the first year or two. If team isn’t winning the administration will put pressure on the coach, due to the high contact value. This forces the coach to take chances with new hires.

A large part of the “win now” culture comes from the coach. After year 2 or 3 the coach’s agent will start pushing for a multi year extension. This extension will always include a large raise. If a coach hasn’t proven to be a tier one winner by year 3 then the school is taking a huge risk by giving them a 3-5 year extension.

 

[jakez4ut]

I think this message speaks to the heart of where fans are on this issue. The side you’re on thinks this is a slow build with improvements happening over the course of many years. A learn to walk before you run approach.

The side I’m on is the current climate of SEC football doesn’t allow for the slow build. Due to the multi million dollar coaching contracts and nature of recruits, success has to either happen quickly or it won’t happen at all. In the first year a coach can preach rebuilding, installing his system, a new culture of winning, and immediate playing time. If there isn’t signs of that happening early on then top recruits will be hesitant to take a chance after the first year or two. If team isn’t winning the administration will put pressure on the coach, due to the high contact value. This forces the coach to take chances with new hires.

A large part of the “win now” culture comes from the coach. After year 2 or 3 the coach’s agent will start pushing for a multi year extension. This extension will always include a large raise. If a coach hasn’t proven to be a tier one winner by year 3 then the school is taking a huge risk by giving them a 3-5 year extension.

No none of that had anything to do with it.

Everyone wants to win as fast as possible.

It's the"as possible" that's up for debate.

 

[Behr]

5 out of 7
It is what it is

I see 5 out of 13.
7 out of 41.
33 out 113.

Like I said, they beat us a few times when we were down, they earned it. Congrats!! If you want to say they own us, go ahead.

 

[jakez4ut]

I think what he means is a streak or string of bad luck/bad AD can last long enough to bury anybody. Our problem is several other SEC programs have a lot of momentum that have recruited and played at a high level for a long time . We could get just the right group of guys together and be the next juggernaut , but we don't have just one big hill to climb.

Basically agree. Our ceiling is further away than it used to be and we're gonna have to get up a flight out two of stairs to get there.

 

[photovol]

I see 5 out of 13.
7 out of 41.
33 out 113.

Like I said, they beat us a few times when we were down, they earned it. Congrats!! If you want to say they own us, go ahead.

If you notice, I said they have owned us for almost a decade and nothing else

 

[hUTch2002]

We didn’t finish in the top 10. We were 12th. And there were 6 SEC teams ahead of us.

Clemson had 2 top 10 classes in the 6 years from 2013-2018 and none higher than 7th. You don’t have to be top 5 or even top 10 to win big because there generally isn’t much separation in those rankings.

 

[Behr]

If you notice, I said they have owned us for almost a decade and nothing else

If you noticed, I said you were wrong.

A far as I know a decade is 10 years. In the last 10 years we are 5-5. If 5 outta 10 = ownership, I think Ill go with we own them.

 

[jakez4ut]

Clemson had 2 top 10 classes in the 6 years from 2013-2018 and none higher than 7th. You don’t have to be top 5 or even top 10 to win big because there generally isn’t much separation in those rankings.

while Clemson has certainly proved that to be true. they did it in the ACC. now, today, they're recruiting obviously at a national level like Bama, if not a little better than bama presently, but either way, that program right now could compete for and win most any other conf championship, SEC included. just like Bama and GA.....

but the climb Clemson had, was much easier. you could compete at a conf title level in the ACC, recruiting at a top 10/15 level....

i take nothing away from them. the results are what they are. but during that climb, there was really only one hurdle, FSU. once they cleared that, they ran off and left the rest of that conference.