On Pearl/Elmore/NCAA/suspensions

#1

StepCross

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#1
1. I'm a Pearl supporter, but honestly it can be hard to keep supporting him on this board, because the arguments in his favor are often SO BAD.

2. There is no conspiracy. This mess is not Matta's fault, or Craft's. Slive is not out to get us, nor is the NCAA. Pearl is not under unfair accusations or persecutions.

3. He screwed up. He lied, and that's not OK. It's against the rules of the NCAA. It's considered by the NCAA and by the University of Tennessee to be gross ethical misconduct.

4. With that said, the actual violations (aside from the lie) were not a big deal. The lie itself is not a huge deal from a common-sense standpoint...you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar, and your knee-jerk reaction is to deny. It's bad, and you're gonna get in trouble for it, but it's understandable. As I said, it's not OK, but it's nowhere near the level of paying players, cheating in recruiting, grade-altering, or the mountain of ugly behavior Dave Bliss engaged in at Baylor. I'd call it medium-bad.

5. Postseason ban is totally unlikely IMO. There was no competitive advantage (I mean, seriously...we ended up losing both Craft and Selby anyway, and it appears we may have lost Adonis Thomas due to this mess now), no ineligible players competed, and there will not be an institutional control finding.

6. What's likely is a suspension of Pearl himself.

7. Now in some sense, the NCAA caught itself between a rock and a hard place by suspending Dez Bryant for a whole year. Because frankly, what Pearl did is worse than what Bryant did, for several reasons. One obvious reason is that Pearl is an adult, and Bryant was a kid. Another is Pearl is an employee, Bryant was a student just wanting to play a sport as an amateur. A third is that (if I recall correctly) Bryant didn't commit any actual violations other than the lie itself.

8. So then, the NCAA is stuck with having to suspend Pearl for more than a year, or look like a hypocrite. But that's bad also (despite Elmore's opinion) because you have to leave some wiggle room for Really Bad Stuff. (again, like paying players, grade-tampering, etc.) If they suspend Pearl for 2 years, it will effectively end his career. Then the NCAA is in the unappetizing position of, "If you lie to us about a BBQ, we'll end your career. But if you dare to pay players, change grades, or anything really bad like that, we'll...um, still do the same thing: end your career." That sends the wrong message.

9. The SEC has actually given the NCAA some wiggle room on this, by suspending Pearl for 8 games. Now the NCAA can suspend Pearl for (let's say) November/December 2011, and it amounts to something like a year total. Together with the pay cut, the loss of road recruiting time, and the 1 scholarship per year they'll probably dock us for 2 years, that's enough to say "worse than Bryant, but not career-ending."

10. The other possibility is a show-cause order. The problem with that, though, is that it basically says "fire him or else," and Tennessee has made it clear they don't intend to do that. Of course, the NCAA could do it anyway, but I think that, too, sends the wrong message, because Tennessee has been quick, public, cooperative, and totally transparent about this whole mess. My GUESS (and it's only a guess, I'm not an expert at all about this stuff) is that the NCAA will prefer a suspension.
 
#3
#3
Interesting outlook. I personally think the university and SEC have handed down enough punishment. Thats just my opinion. I think the NCAA should move on and concentrate on bigger scandals elsewhere. Maybe keep Pearl under close watch for a year or two, but they should move on for the most part.
 
#5
#5
The NCAA already has a punishment for "Really Bad Stuff." It's the show cause order.

A two year suspension wouldn't end Pearl's career. Tennessee would fire him, he'd do television, then some second rate program looking to get a cheap pop would hire him.

I don't think the concept of "competitive advantage" will enter into the NCAA's decision. Treating them like fools, then attempting to gain the assistance of others in clowning them, will be what they focus on in their formulation of penalties.

All of that said, Elmore's proposed penalty is a copout. It's a half measure. It's show cause lite. If you think it merits more than a one year suspension, you should call for the show cause order to be issued.
 
#7
#7
I agree theres no conspiracy and its Bruces fault and #9 seems very reasonable. The two year thing is insane, he lied, so does every college coach in regards to recruiting if not more. Most major programs have secondary violations (see Lane Kiffen and Coach O) and you'll never convince me they didnt know what they were doing when they commited them. So Bruce lied about them while others just give the OMG, I didnt realize what I was doing was wrong, not much difference. Anyway #9 good, two years crazy.
 
#9
#9
Also, the NCAA isn't going to use early season nonconference games to make a statement. If they don't go with an entire year or a show cause order, you can be pretty sure Pearl's chances of coaching in UT's next NCAA Tournament appearance are next to nil.
 
#11
#11
Also, the NCAA isn't going to use early season nonconference games to make a statement. If they don't go with an entire year or a show cause order, you can be pretty sure Pearl's chances of coaching in UT's next NCAA Tournament appearance are next to nil.

So you think the NCAA will either:

-show-cause order
-one-year suspension
-or Bruce Pearl postseason ban in 2012?

Intuitively, those all seem too heavy to me; but the NCAA is hard to predict sometimes.

#3 would be easiest for UT fans to live with...we're not going to be legitimate contenders in 2012 anyway, unless both Tobias and Scotty stay and we get big-man help from somewhere.
 
#13
#13
So you think the NCAA will either:

-show-cause order
-one-year suspension
-or Bruce Pearl postseason ban in 2012?

Intuitively, those all seem too heavy to me; but the NCAA is hard to predict sometimes.

#3 would be easiest for UT fans to live with...we're not going to be legitimate contenders in 2012 anyway, unless both Tobias and Scotty stay and we get big-man help from somewhere.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if they took Fraschilla's advice and suspended him for two NCAA Tournaments. That's the kind of penalty that gets people's attention.
 
#14
#14
I wouldn't be at all surprised if they took Fraschilla's advice and suspended him for two NCAA Tournaments. That's the kind of penalty that gets people's attention.

That's pretty harsh. It would just destroy our recruiting for a couple years, and that's hard to come back from.

That would be very close to a de facto two-year show-cause order.
 
#15
#15
Why not just post this in the Elmore thread?

Because that thread was getting long and stupid with all the analogies about lying about farts in front of police officers who had stopped you to ask for pudding recipes.

(Or something like that.)
 
#16
#16
That's pretty harsh.
That would be the point. It would show they are willing to throw the Hammer of God at people who lie to them, but it doesn't open them to the "You ordered them to fire me" argument that Tark used to eventually take them to the cleaner.
 
#20
#20
My opinion is that the NCAA does whatever it wants to do. There are multiple sets of interpretations depending upon who the school is, and who the coach is. You can flame me if you want because I don't care. If they suspend him for one season or two, or two NCAA tournaments, and says that it's OK for a father to shop/pimp his son out for pay for play as long as the son doesn't know about it is the height of hypocrisy. I know, it's 2 different situations. However, put those two issues in perspective. The weight of one vs. the other. Yes BP did screw up lying about a secondary violation, but the NCAA is way out of whack. I'm tired of all the speculation, and the throw BP under the bus talk on here. I'll just wait until we hear the verdict, and life will go on. At least until 21 Dec. 2012.
 
#21
#21
I just don't understand all this... It appears to me that the whole Cecil Newton pay-for-play scenario is a much more scandalous and aggregious act than what Bruce did yet the NCAA and SEC is dancing around it like Bristol Palin doing the tango. I just don't get it... I know it is apples to oranges, but the SEC rulebook clearly states that any player or family member/handler/agent/associate/etc that asks for cash for a players services from an SEC school immediately loses eligibility with not only the school that the request was made with, but with ALL schools in the SEC. Slive hasn't even responded to the rule that is in HIS book yet he suspends Bruce for violating an NCAA sanction that, to my knowledge isn't even in the SEC rulebook.

What Bruce did was wrong, bottom line end of story. There is no denying that; however, with that said, how wrong was it? Was it wrong enough to end the man's career? Was it wrong enough to justify the current punishment? I am hopeful that the NCAA doesn't make an example out of Bruce just for the sake of making an example and understands that the situation is not "that bad."

Hopefully that LOA gets here soon so we can all know what the worst case scenario is and all this speculation can end. I just hope what is handed down is fair and just.

Go Vols!!!
 
#22
#22
I wouldn't be at all surprised if they took Fraschilla's advice and suspended him for two NCAA Tournaments. That's the kind of penalty that gets people's attention.

It will get people's attention. That Tennessee basketball is done for a long time. Ten seasons before Pearl amassed 165 wins and 126 losses. W/Pearl for 5 years and a few games: 132 w's and 43 losses. Looking forward to Cirque de Soleil and the River Dance proudly featured at TBA.
 
#23
#23
My opinion is that the NCAA does whatever it wants to do. There are multiple sets of interpretations depending upon who the school is, and who the coach is. You can flame me if you want because I don't care. If they suspend him for one season or two, or two NCAA tournaments, and says that it's OK for a father to shop/pimp his son out for pay for play as long as the son doesn't know about it is the height of hypocrisy. I know, it's 2 different situations. However, put those two issues in perspective. The weight of one vs. the other. Yes BP did screw up lying about a secondary violation, but the NCAA is way out of whack. I'm tired of all the speculation, and the throw BP under the bus talk on here. I'll just wait until we hear the verdict, and life will go on. At least until 21 Dec. 2012.

I agree 100% but at least 1 person on here will let you know he doesnt. To me from the time I was a kid (30ish yrs) the biggest issue facing the NCAA in regards to recruiting was kids getting $$$$$ they shouldnt be getting, still goes on everywhere, many of which we all know about and many of which arent too hard to figure out. Those are the issues giving schools an advantage, not BBq and smoke machines, umm, maybe traveling hostesses, lol...but if you believe theres not at least 1 ut football player who was paid to come here you are fooling yourself and if you believe one former UT player now enrolled at Kansas St wasnt paid well Ive got some oceanfront property in Tennessee I can sell you.
 
#24
#24
Because that thread was getting long and stupid with all the analogies about lying about farts in front of police officers who had stopped you to ask for pudding recipes.

(Or something like that.)

haha, fair enough.
 
#25
#25
Let's say it again, even though it has been said multiple and multiple times:

The Bruce Pearl case is basically over. The Cam Newton saga continues.
 
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