OL Technique Question

#1
kiddiedoc

kiddiedoc

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#1
Can one of the coaching/technique experts please explain the "zone blocking" scheme employed by the OL, how it differs from a more traditional scheme, and when/why we changed over? I could probably google and find some sort of answer, but I'm feeling a little lazy.

For some reason, I am fixated on how our line has underperformed in recent years, especially given the apparent talent level we have recruited and amazing strength we have developed in the training room.
 
#2
#2
kiddiedoc said:
Can one of the coaching/technique experts please explain the "zone blocking" scheme employed by the OL, how it differs from a more traditional scheme, and when/why we changed over? I could probably google and find some sort of answer, but I'm feeling a little lazy.

For some reason, I am fixated on how our line has underperformed in recent years, especially given the apparent talent level we have recruited and amazing strength we have developed in the training room.
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not sure about zones, but clawson's flip=flopping is a big FLOP, and the OL is clearly confused, they couldn't block me, and i'm not even a lineman........
 
#4
#4
Zone blocking can be very effective when you have backs with good vision, and physical ability to match it. It seems that Foster has the vision, but lacks the legs and Hardesty has the legs, but lacks the vision. And Creer? Streaky is all I can say.
 
#5
#5
kiddiedoc said:
Can one of the coaching/technique experts please explain the "zone blocking" scheme employed by the OL, how it differs from a more traditional scheme, and when/why we changed over? I could probably google and find some sort of answer, but I'm feeling a little lazy.

For some reason, I am fixated on how our line has underperformed in recent years, especially given the apparent talent level we have recruited and amazing strength we have developed in the training room.
Click to expand...

I think it changed around 2005. I think our coaching staff visited with the Denver Broncos staff about that time. It must be interesting because every back they put in is successful. We still recruit huge offensive lineman, but denver uses smaller quicker types.
 
#6
#6
It's good for running backs that like to cut back against the grain too.
 
#7
#7
It seems zone blocking would be easier agaisnt defenses that use a lot of motion before the snap. It's easier for linemen to figure out how to block in a certain area than it is for them to figure out who to block. Thus, it's especially useful against defense that use a lot of schemes. It may have been an effort to simplify assignments, but I don't know... just fits with what appears to be a slow learning curve with the new offense (whatever that is..as I'm hoping we haven't seen it yet).
 
#8
#8
Too many missed blocks and not driving off the ball. Nothing hard about that.
 
#9
#9
TnTom said:
Too many missed blocks and not driving off the ball. Nothing hard about that.
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Agree... you'd think they could just wedge block and get a yard againt NIU, but hey, something's wrong. Those guys are strong as oxen.

Jamal is playing now. He could get a yard against NIU without a line.
 
#11
#11
From what I've heard the scheme isn't so much the problem as the basic technique. These guys are lacking in the fundamentals. They are not well-coached.
 
#12
#12
Typically you block using the following rule:

1st block is head up

if no one head up 2nd block is inside

if no one inside look 3rd block being linebacker

The backs are to read the blocks of the lineman and move upfield when they see the hole. Good backs are smart enough to take a glance and read their line assignments ( they usually only have 3 reads Guard, tackle and tightend.

Example:
If guard has a guy inside he takes the block inside, if the tackle has no one head up or inside he'll take the linebacker, and tightend has a guy head up or slightly outside he turns his guy out and the back should read a hole around the 4 or 6 and turn it up and make 1st defender miss.
 
#13
#13
I'am a fan of drive blocking myself. I'll explain that one to you. Grab the guy infront of you and drive him backwards or into the turf. Simple but effective.
 
#14
#14
kptvol said:
From what I've heard the scheme isn't so much the problem as the basic technique. These guys are lacking in the fundamentals. They are not well-coached.
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That's really sad. It's shoulder to shoulder, get low, and push. I don't think the 1 yard stuff is complicated technique. We do still have sleds at UT, right?
 
#15
#15
They don't stay on their blocks long enough for a play to develop. Not sure if that's because because the defender is quicker and stronger, or because of technique.

They don't have a lot of leaverage. They don't stay low and drive off the ball. I don't see many defensive lineman being driven off the line as a play develops, they have problems moving people in space.

If they want to learn how to block, they should watch tape of how the opposing team blocks UT's defensive line. That should be great lessons every week. :lol:
 
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#16
#16
The Zone blocking is used for a fast team. Quick, agile Linemen, who can reach outside and make sure linebacker and ends can't reach the HB stretch play. We switched to it at our H.S. we had one of the faster Runningbacks in our conference and O-Lines and it worked pretty well. We also had Mikel Leshoure who now plays for Illinois as a major ball carrier. We had about 3,000 rushing yards last year, so it does work given the right system.
 
#17
#17
oklavol said:
They don't look like they stay on their blocks long enough for a play to develop. I'm not sure if that's because because the defender is quicker and stronger, or because of their technique.

They don't seem to have a lot of leaverage either. They don't stay low or drive off the ball. I don't see too many defensive lineman being driven into the ground as a play develops, UT seems to have problems moving people in space at all.

If they want to learn how to block, just let them watch tape of how the opposing team blocks UT's defensive line. That should be some great lessons every week. :lol:
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i've started seeing this alot more since the college game has gone to the standing pass block where you allow penetration while jabbing your defender outside. It seems that the college teams that throw more have more difficulty in drive blocking. This usually stems from teams working more on passing game in practice to get timing routes working and less on the running game.
 
#18
#18
Zone blocking is garbage. There, I said it.

Bob Davie's explanation of zone blocking largely falls flat because for most of it, he's talking about what's called combo blocking. At its heart, this involves base or down blocking. But in most teams that run full-fledged zone blocking, it's a series of reaches.

Let me explain thusly. To oppose a regular five-man offensive line (no tight end), the two defensive ends will set up on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackles. In order for the play to successfully get outside, the tackle must come off quickly, take a flat step, and try to fight the DE to get his helmet across the DE's helmet. This is a reach block.

Here's the problem. The first commandment of DL play is this. DO NOT GET REACH BLOCKED. What's the second commandment? DO NOT GET REACH BLOCKED. And the third is this: DO NOT GET REACH BLOCKED.

We can begin on the chalkboard. There's a story about when Sammy Baugh was with the Redskins at the beginning of his career, and they were preparing for a game against the Eagles. The coach (whose name escapes me) drew up a basic play and said "This back will block the DT." Baugh raised his hand and said, "Coach, there's a problem. On Sunday that won't be an X on a chalkboard. That's going to be (HOF lineman) Bucko Kilroy." The coach scratched his head, then made a series of adjustments.

But in zone blocking, there is no real thought to the fact that defensive linemen and linebackers are simply faster than offensive linemen. If the scheme were truly that effective and revolutionary, there would be a huge gap in yards per carry that couldn't be explained by a simple talent disparity.

The reason why outside zone blocking fails is because, as more teams go to a read-and-react defense, all the DLs are fighting that reach all the way down the line. So when the ballcarrier goes to find a seam or a spot to cut back, he'll have all his own linemen, all the DLs, and at least one linebacker wedged into a very tight area.
 
#19
#19
Ohio Vol said:
Zone blocking is garbage. There, I said it.

Bob Davie's explanation of zone blocking largely falls flat because for most of it, he's talking about what's called combo blocking. At its heart, this involves base or down blocking. But in most teams that run full-fledged zone blocking, it's a series of reaches.

Let me explain thusly. To oppose a regular five-man offensive line (no tight end), the two defensive ends will set up on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackles. In order for the play to successfully get outside, the tackle must come off quickly, take a flat step, and try to fight the DE to get his helmet across the DE's helmet. This is a reach block.

Here's the problem. The first commandment of DL play is this. DO NOT GET REACH BLOCKED. What's the second commandment? DO NOT GET REACH BLOCKED. And the third is this: DO NOT GET REACH BLOCKED.

We can begin on the chalkboard. There's a story about when Sammy Baugh was with the Redskins at the beginning of his career, and they were preparing for a game against the Eagles. The coach (whose name escapes me) drew up a basic play and said "This back will block the DT." Baugh raised his hand and said, "Coach, there's a problem. On Sunday that won't be an X on a chalkboard. That's going to be (HOF lineman) Bucko Kilroy." The coach scratched his head, then made a series of adjustments.

But in zone blocking, there is no real thought to the fact that defensive linemen and linebackers are simply faster than offensive linemen. If the scheme were truly that effective and revolutionary, there would be a huge gap in yards per carry that couldn't be explained by a simple talent disparity.

The reason why outside zone blocking fails is because, as more teams go to a read-and-react defense, all the DLs are fighting that reach all the way down the line. So when the ballcarrier goes to find a seam or a spot to cut back, he'll have all his own linemen, all the DLs, and at least one linebacker wedged into a very tight area.
Click to expand...

I enjoy reading your posts...
 
#20
#20
Ohio Vol said:
Zone blocking is garbage. There, I said it.

Bob Davie's explanation of zone blocking largely falls flat because for most of it, he's talking about what's called combo blocking. At its heart, this involves base or down blocking. But in most teams that run full-fledged zone blocking, it's a series of reaches.

Let me explain thusly. To oppose a regular five-man offensive line (no tight end), the two defensive ends will set up on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackles. In order for the play to successfully get outside, the tackle must come off quickly, take a flat step, and try to fight the DE to get his helmet across the DE's helmet. This is a reach block.

Here's the problem. The first commandment of DL play is this. DO NOT GET REACH BLOCKED. What's the second commandment? DO NOT GET REACH BLOCKED. And the third is this: DO NOT GET REACH BLOCKED.

We can begin on the chalkboard. There's a story about when Sammy Baugh was with the Redskins at the beginning of his career, and they were preparing for a game against the Eagles. The coach (whose name escapes me) drew up a basic play and said "This back will block the DT." Baugh raised his hand and said, "Coach, there's a problem. On Sunday that won't be an X on a chalkboard. That's going to be (HOF lineman) Bucko Kilroy." The coach scratched his head, then made a series of adjustments.

But in zone blocking, there is no real thought to the fact that defensive linemen and linebackers are simply faster than offensive linemen. If the scheme were truly that effective and revolutionary, there would be a huge gap in yards per carry that couldn't be explained by a simple talent disparity.

The reason why outside zone blocking fails is because, as more teams go to a read-and-react defense, all the DLs are fighting that reach all the way down the line. So when the ballcarrier goes to find a seam or a spot to cut back, he'll have all his own linemen, all the DLs, and at least one linebacker wedged into a very tight area.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Why does Denver seem to have so much success in their system?
 
#22
#22
sMi.Spite said:
Interesting. Why does Denver seem to have so much success in their system?
Click to expand...


They are undersized, but they also have outstanding technique,plus they are very quick,smart, and athletic.

I saw a lineman at a HS game last week that was listed at 165 lbs,and he completely man handled his guy all night that was well over 200 lbs.
 
#23
#23
our guys are seeming to have extreme trouble in executing any blocking scheme. I saw a toss sweep Sat that was set up beautifully but the pulling guard and the full back both missed their blocks on the corner. They weren't out manned, they whiffed on the block. That is a fundamental that goes back to peewee ball. I say that is good part of the blame for the blocking issues go back to the players not doing the most basic of what they have been taught.
 
#24
#24
I don't understand how we can have such inability to run the ball. We have what is probably the most experience offensive line in the SEC if not the NCAA and we couldn't sustain a respectable running game against a decent highschool team. How can our linemen be so inable to blaock anyone, any set, any defensive formation.

Last year, this same line only gave up 4 sacks all year and this year we give up that many if not more each game. Did changing offenses destroy our offensive lines ability to block?
 
#25
#25
KYVolFan said:
I don't understand how we can have such inability to run the ball. We have what is probably the most experience offensive line in the SEC if not the NCAA and we couldn't sustain a respectable running game against a decent highschool team. How can our linemen be so inable to blaock anyone, any set, any defensive formation.

Last year, this same line only gave up 4 sacks all year and this year we give up that many if not more each game. Did changing offenses destroy our offensive lines ability to block?
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It never was a real good line. Overrated at best. The quick passing game everyone bitched about last year was by design, because cutcliffe knew these guys couldn't hold blocks long. They're terrible and no one should be making anymore excuses about how good we were last year. Smoke and mirrors.
 
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