Offsides Penalty on 1st Onside Kick (Pic)

[uttom300]

Because what they did or did not say means absolutely nothing.

That is absolutely ridiculous. By your logic, the fans should not be told the reason for any penalty.

 

[utvolpj]

That is absolutely ridiculous. By your logic, the fans should not be told the reason for any penalty.

As long as the coaches know it makes no difference what the fans are told

 

[vollygirl]

It doesn't matter because of the order of events. Illegal touching was the more important one to deal with

A flag indicates a penalty. Has for as long as I've been watching the game

If the refs mic is broken are there no more penalties?

At least once last night they picked up the flag and said, "There is no penalty" or whatever the wording is. So, throwing the flag out of their pocket doesn't automatically indicate a team has committed a penalty.

 

[uttom300]

As long as the coaches know it makes no difference what the fans are told

Yeah, it really does. The fans would not have been nearly as upset if they were told why the flag was thrown. You must have been a ref to think that way.

 

[uttom300]

At least once last night they picked up the flag and said, "There is no penalty" or whatever the wording is. So, throwing the flag out of their pocket doesn't automatically indicate a team has committed a penalty.

Exactly. The point is that the ref indicated that illegal touching was the penalty. No indication was made that another violation had occurred except the illegal touching.

 

[UTFootballFan]

As I have stated previously, even the band had no idea. As did 99% of the stadium crowd. Did you not hear how everyone was excited about the reversal? That is why even the TV crew said "Its interesting because they didn't call offsides." Is it relevant? Only because that's their job: to say why throw the flag. Does it make a difference? No. But that just adds to the fact that no one was offsides.

Oh, that's different. If the band didn't hear or see it, it absolutely didn't happen. Wish you would have said that earlier. GEEZ. Are you a student at Tenn? How do you get through your classes?

 

[uttom300]

As long as the coaches know it makes no difference what the fans are told

So you would be completely fine with watching a game where they only told the coaches the foul and walked the ball backwards or forwards without telling any person watching why they were penalizing a team? :blink:

 

[UTFootballFan]

At least once last night they picked up the flag and said, "There is no penalty" or whatever the wording is. So, throwing the flag out of their pocket doesn't automatically indicate a team has committed a penalty.

It means one of the refs thought he saw a penalty but after consultation, they decided there wasn't a penalty. Some are starting to pick nits just to argue.

 

[uttom300]

Oh, that's different. If the band didn't hear or see it, it absolutely didn't happen. Wish you would have said that earlier. GEEZ. Are you a student at Tenn? How do you get through your classes?

You must not have been at the game. That is certainly obvious. And please refrain from insult, its unbecoming of a fellow vol fan to throw insults at another. Very childish.

 

[UTFootballFan]

I just asked a question.

 

[uttom300]

It means one of the refs thought he saw a penalty but after consultation, they decided there wasn't a penalty. Some are starting to pick nits just to argue.

You clearly lack understanding of Vollygirl's post.

 

[vollygirl]

It means one of the refs thought he saw a penalty but after consultation, they decided there wasn't a penalty. Some are starting to pick nits just to argue.

Mostly just trying to understand. If the ref threw the flag as the ball was kicked, that's a problem for me. That's what the video evidence shows correct? That he had the flag at the ready when the ball was kicked?

 

[uttom300]

I just asked a question.

Sure you did.

 

[uttom300]

Mostly just trying to understand. If the ref threw the flag as the ball was kicked, that's a problem for me. That's what the video evidence shows correct? That he had the flag at the ready when the ball was kicked?

Again, exactly correct. Much more scruitiny was given to the kick than a normal kickoff. Offsides is hardly ever called, but it happens very regularly. But in this case, video replay shows no one offsides, so it was even more egregious.

 

[volinSmyrna]

Again, just watched the replay, no offsides call was made. All the ref said was illegal touching, first down Missouri. That's it. Anyone saying differently did not watch the game. After watching the replay the first time any offsides was even mentioned was after they reversed the illegal touching.

Did you watch the replay on mute?

The ref never called it, are you saying the announcer said it?

Yep, must've watched on mute because that is all Herby talked about through the first half of the stopage/ review time.

So if its not a foul for illegal touching, why was illegal touching all the head ref said? You would think they would call the penalty for what they actually threw the flag for. That is how it was indicated to the crowd. Its what they are paid to do.

This has been asked and answered over and over throughout this entire thread....but here it goes one more time.

We kick the ball....the ref standing on the 35 yardline on the UT side throws the flag right after the kick for offsides (nobody had touched the ball yet).

Ball ricochets off of a Mizzou player, but the refs didn't see that and so they throw the beanbag when it bounces off the UT player before the ball went 10 yards signaling the illegal touch. There is never a flag thrown for illegal touching, as it's technically not a penalty.

So the ruling on the field is Illegal touching by Tennessee, Mizzou ball at the 43 or whatever yardline they said we touched it first. There is NO need to state that there was an offsides penalty and no need for Mizzou to have to decline it because the illegal touching happened or so it was called.

The play goes to replay, and it was correctly determined that Mizzou actually touched it first, so the illegal touching is thrown out...now we go back to the offisides and re-kick. If Mizzou had recovered the kick, they could have declined the offsides and taken possession, but since we recovered it the penalty was then enforced and we had to kick again.

Bottom line, is the officials were 0-2 on that play, in my opinion. There is strong evidence to show that there was no offsides, and they missed the Mizzou player touching the ball first.

 

[volinSmyrna]

Mostly just trying to understand. If the ref threw the flag as the ball was kicked, that's a problem for me. That's what the video evidence shows correct? That he had the flag at the ready when the ball was kicked?

Not quite Volly....you can see from the pic looking in that direction. He had both hands on his knees at the kick.

 

[uttom300]

Did you watch the replay on mute?



Yep, must've watched on mute because that is all Herby talked about through the first half of the stopage/ review time.



This has been asked and answered over and over throughout this entire thread....but here it goes one more time.

We kick the ball....the ref standing on the 35 yardline on the UT side throws the flag right after the kick for offsides (nobody had touched the ball yet).

Ball ricochets off of a Mizzou player, but the refs didn't see that and so they throw the beanbag when it bounces off the UT player before the ball went 10 yards signaling the illegal touch. There is never a flag thrown for illegal touching, as it's technically not a penalty.

So the ruling on the field is Illegal touching by Tennessee, Mizzou ball at the 43 or whatever yardline they said we touched it first. There is NO need to state that there was an offsides penalty and no need for Mizzou to have to decline it because the illegal touching happened or so it was called.

The play goes to replay, and it was correctly determined that Mizzou actually touched it first, so the illegal touching is thrown out...now we go back to the offisides and re-kick. If Mizzou had recovered the kick, they could have declined the offsides and taken possession, but since we recovered it the penalty was then enforced and we had to kick again.

Bottom line, is the officials were 0-2 on that play, in my opinion. There is strong evidence to show that there was no offsides, and they missed the Mizzou player touching the ball first.

I've watched the replay on full blast, and again the official never signals offsides until after the review. How did you not hear Reece say "They didn't call offsides"? But to your main point, I agree. There was no one offsides and the official decided to throw the flag for some reason. It was a terrible call and cost us the chance to try to score.

 

[vollygirl]

Not quite Volly....you can see from the pic looking in that direction. He had both hands on his knees at the kick.

So he's the one that threw the flag?

 

[volinSmyrna]

I've watched the replay on full blast, and again the official never signals offsides until after the review. How did you not hear Reece say "They didn't call offsides"? But to your main point, I agree. There was no one offsides and the official decided to throw the flag for some reason. It was a terrible call and cost us the chance to try to score.

Herby saw the guy throw the flag and he mentioned offsides almost immediately. Even the "expert" ref they brought in said something about the offsides. I agree, it would have made things clearer if the ref would have said something about offsides, but the point is he didn't have to. Illegal touching trumps it and makes it irrelevant.

 

[Orange Maniac]

Not quite Volly....you can see from the pic looking in that direction. He had both hands on his knees at the kick.

You can see the flag come out just after the kick then you see the other guy toss the beanbag for the illegal touch. I think JRM's head was over the line. First thing Herbstreit said was it wasn't going to matter because Tennessee was off sides. Then the debating started and the official they had on staff finally explained it correctly. Just watch the replay on ESPN and it should clear things up. If it doesn't clear things up for people, then they just want it to be a problem whether it was or not.

 

[volinSmyrna]

So he's the one that threw the flag?

Yes. The ref that was on the 35 on the UT sidelines was the one that called it. You can clearly see him throw it on the film.

 

[volinSmyrna]

You can see the flag come out just after the kick then you see the other guy toss the beanbag for the illegal touch. I think JRM's head was over the line. First thing Herbstreit said was it wasn't going to matter because Tennessee was off sides. Then the debating started and the official they had on staff finally explained it correctly. Just watch the replay on ESPN and it should clear things up. If it doesn't clear things up for people, then they just want it to be a problem whether it was or not.

Spot on. I still don't think JRM was offsides, but oh well.

 

[uttom300]

The issue is with the offsides call itself. Noone was offsides. An official normally won't call offsides unless the guy steps over the line, not just when a piece of helmet crosses. That was the issue here: Noone crossed the line, except maybe JRM's facemask. That is unacceptable officiating in a crucial point in the game.

 

[Cdywolfe]

Well… It completely blows my mind that this is still being discussed.

 

[uttom300]

Well… It completely blows my mind that this is still being discussed.

Why is that? Its going to be discussed for a long time, just as any other controversial call. Especially one that decides the outcome of the game. Hopefully we have better refs next time who don't make bad calls.