Official Gramps' Memorial Eternal OT Thread

Understand that I am not trying to pick a fight with Catholics. Truly. I dont even post in the Bible thread anymore, and am loathe to argue with anyone over religion. Ok..

Most protestants I know consider Catholics Christian* with an asterisk. Only slightly closer to actual Christian doctrine than the Mormon followers. There are LOTS of good reasons for this...as could list a half dozen things off the top of my head that Catholics do which are never mentioned, or even vaguely implied in the Bible...as well as several things they do very intentionally and regularly that God Himself clearly said "don't do that." That said, there are Catholic folks here, and 1 especially, that I consider a friend and do not ever want to offend. At the end of the day , I am glad that they are in fact Christians, and pray to the same God that I do....so let's just stick to the matter at hand, OK?

The pope just came out today, a 1st, and endorsed gay civil unions. Thats how they worded it....but we all know a civil union is just another word for marriage. God made it abundantly clear how He feels about homosexuality (note I did NOT say homosexuals) just the sin itself, not the sinner who is no different than me or you. God Almighty, and I quote, says homosexuality "...is an abomination against God ". How can a pope then "endorse" anything to do with homosexuality?? Much less a LIFELONG commitment to keep doing that same sin??? This guy is supposed to be the holiest man on planet Earth to Catholics...ordained and chosen by God Himself to lead all the Catholics...how can he endorse not only sin, but a lifetime commitment to keep sinning with the same other gay person???

If a Preacher got up in any church where my family has ever worshipped, and endorsed this same stuff, 1 of 2 things would happen, or actually probably both:

1. Everyone would get up and leave. Then. Not later...right then.

2. The Deacons would hold an emergency business meeting and fire the Preacher. Religious leaders cannot endorse sin...thats a baseline, foundational truth. Will never be accepted by rational folks .

So I ask...what happens now? Do all Catholics follow him in sin, and endorse those unions? When God says no???

Does the catholic church discipline the pope or make a statement saying that is not the official stance of the church???

What do you think, as a catholic about it? What difference is there between the pope endorsing that sin, and him endorsing stealing, lying, murder etc? How?

I have nothing against gay folks, and do not care what they do in their bedrooms. Absolutely none of my business. However, if asked about it, I will truthfully say that it is a sin...no different from any other sin...and that we should not do those things, because God said not to. Hate the sin, love the sinners...like me. I am surely a sinner. I dont seek to rationalize my sin though, nor flaunt it ...nor do I expect anyone to endorse it. Much less a religious leader who should know better...moreso than a layman.

When I read that today it was a huge "wth,"
.... just cannot wrap my head around it.

Hope I didn't offend anyone. I dont expect anyone to believe the way that I do...that is a personal choice. If asked, I do believe however that I can back up my beliefs with scripture. I dont see that happening here.
 
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Understand that I am not trying to pick a fight with Catholics. Truly. I dont even post in the Bible thread anymore, and am loathe to argue with anyone over religion. Ok..

Most protestants I know consider Catholics Christian* with an asterisk. Only slightly closer to actual Christian doctrine than the Mormon followers. There are LOTS of good reasons for this...as could list a half dozen things off the top of my head that Catholics do which are never mentioned, or even vaguely implied in the Bible...as well as several things they do very intentionally and regularly that God Himself clearly said "don't do that." That said, there are Catholic folks here, and 1 especially, that I consider a friend and do not ever want to offend. At the end of the day , I am glad that they are in fact Christians, and pray to the same God that I do....so let's just stick to the matter at hand, OK?

The pope just came out today, a 1st, and endorsed gay civil unions. Thats how they worded it....but we all know a civil union is just another word for marriage. God made it abundantly clear how He feels about homosexuality (note I did NOT say homosexuals) just the sin itself, not the sinner who is no different than me or you. God Almighty, and I quote, says homosexuality "...is an abomination against God ". How can a pope then "endorse" anything to do with homosexuality?? Much less a LIFELONG commitment to keep doing that same sin??? This guy is supposed to be the holiest man on planet Earth to Catholics...ordained and chosen by God Himself to lead all the Catholics...how can he endorse not only sin, but a lifetime commitment to keep sinning with the same other gay person???

If a Preacher got up in any church where my family has ever worshipped, and endorsed this same stuff, 1 of 2 things would happen, or actually probably both:

1. Everyone would get up and leave. Then. Not later...right then.

2. The Deacons would hold an emergency business meeting and fire the Preacher. Religious leaders cannot endorse sin...thats a baseline, foundational truth. Will never be accepted by rational folks .

So I ask...what happens now? Do all Catholics follow him in sin, and endorse those unions? When God says no???

Does the catholic church discipline the pope or make a statement saying that is not the official stance of the church???

What do you think, as a catholic about it? What difference is there between the pope endorsing that sin, and him endorsing stealing, lying, murder etc? How?

I have nothing against gay folks, and do not care what they do in their bedrooms. Absolutely none of my business. However, if asked about it, I will truthfully say that it is a sin...no different from any other sin...and that we should not do those things, because God said not to. Hate the sin, love the sinners...like me. I am surely a sinner. I dont seek to rationalize my sin though, nor flaunt it ...nor do I expect anyone to endorse it. Much less a religious leader who should know better...moreso than a layman.

When I read that today it was a huge "wth,"
.... just cannot wrap my head around it.

Hope I didn't offend anyone. I don't expect anyone to believe the way that I do...that is a personal choice. If asked, I do believe however that I can back up my beliefs with scripture. I dont see that happening here.

You mentioned the part that sets me off. I offended zep the other day with a comment which did cause me some reflection about my view. I can best describe my anger about the LBGT... movement as

A few years ago the government came up with a policy about sexual harassment - particularly in the workplace. I agree with the policy particularly where supervisors and subordinates are concerned, but it goes on into offensive actions and speech - such as off color jokes. I agree with that, too, since I believe we should be a civil society. That pretty much caps what's appropriate public behavior if we believe in not intruding on the rights of others - which the law on sexual harassment seeks to do. So with that as the background, what gives any other group the right to flaunt what has for years been considered deviant behavior in the face of the general public? How could you in this day and age consider a "married" same sex couple in the WH as acceptable behavior - maybe the day will come, but a lot of us old codgers have to go away first - or they've violated that rule about sexual harassment.

To me there's a lot of hypocrisy from liberals who on one hand want acceptance of different lifestyles to the point of forcing tolerance everyone else while refusing to accept that others also have a right not to be forced while in public to witness what they feel is perverse (for lack of a better word).
 
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You mentioned the part that sets me off. I offended zep the other day with a comment which did cause me some reflection about my view. I can best describe my anger about the LBGT... movement as

A few years ago the government came up with a policy about sexual harassment - particularly in the workplace. I agree with the policy particularly where supervisors and subordinates are concerned, but it goes on into offensive actions and speech - such as off color jokes. I agree with that, too, since I believe we should be a civil society. That pretty much caps what's appropriate public behavior if we believe in not intruding on the rights of others - which the law on sexual harassment seeks to do. So with that as the background, what gives any other group the right to flaunt what has for years been considered deviant behavior in the face of the general public? How could you in this day and age consider a "married" same sex couple in the WH as acceptable behavior - maybe the day will come, but a lot of us old codgers have to go away first - or they've violated that rule about sexual harassment.

To me there's a lot of hypocrisy from liberals who on one hand want acceptance of different lifestyles to the point of forcing tolerance everyone else while refusing to accept that others also have a right not to be forced while in public to witness what they feel is perverse (for lack of a better word).
I remember in the 60's and 70's people being repulsed by the abomination of a mixed (black/white) couple in public.
 
She had a convertible Saab years ago. She's wanted another drop top ever since. But I only wanted a hard top convertible. The Lexus came along at a good price.
I have a friend in Atlanta who has 3 Saab convertibles that are like new. 2 are the high performance Turbo Viggen models and one is a very late hi-po 6 cylinder.
 

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