Offensive Line

#1
CountVolcula

CountVolcula

Eternal Vol
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#1
Ok guys and gals

I have seen post after post about Debord, Shoop, and play calling, but we must not overlook the actual cause of all our problems

The offensive line

Now, when I say this, I'm not pointing fingers at the players. I'm not sure they are to blame and this is why


Most of these guys have been blocking on a line for some time now. Some have been playing football since Junior High or Middle School. Its not like these guys just learned how to block their first day of practice here. Techniques, footwork, leverage are taught at all levels. Its how you gauge a recruit to fit your system.

So, why has the offensive line not improved over a course of 4 years?

Some will say injuries. Yes, to some extent, injuries will effect the cohesiveness of a unit. Guys tend to learn how each other play and adapt. A new player in the line will disrupt this. However, every offensive line player should know one another, practice as a unit, and when one has to replace another for either a breather or an injury, you shouldnt be able to tell the difference. Somewhere, the development of the offensive line is failing

With the failures in the offensive line, come the issues with the other aspects of the team. It causes poor QB play with lack of protection and poor pass blocking. Forcing the QB to throw before the route is set. It causes poor play by RBs by not opening holes, etc. It causes more 3 and outs and drives stall

Now, this relates to the defenses also. More the offensive line fails at their job to sustain drives and score, the more strain you put on your defense. The defense spends way to much time on the field, takes more snaps than necessary, and eventually wears down. Over the course of several games, this will result in more injuries and poor play because the defense is worn thin.

A poor offensive line also hamstrings the OC on what calls he can call in certain down and distances. On 3rd and long, our OL cannot protect long enough to go down the field. That and along with Dobbs' inaccuracy, is the reason Debord calls so many screens and short passes.

Butch's main focus should lay with the recruitment of OL and coaching in this position. Its pretty obvious to even the most apologetic fan, that Mahoney isnt cutting it as an offensive line coach. Its been our Achilles Heal for going on 4 years and hasnt improved. A change here is more necessary than any position coach on our team. It must be done

Offensive line is the key to a better team and its the most important. No team succeeds without a great offensive or defensive line.

Just my 2¢
 
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#2
#2
After 4 years, even the starting OL is barely serviceable (pre injury). Frankly, Dobbs made it look much better last year with his running abilities. This year, Dobbs is not running so much and incompetent OL shows up. Mahoney should be gone end of this year.
 
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#4
#4
I don't necessarily agree with a lot of what The Count posts, but he is spot on here--except I would go a step further and bring the S&C program into the discussion, especially as it applies to developing strength across both the offensive and defensive lines. Tired of watching both lines get blown up almost every play no matter what level of competition. Need to get more physical up front on both sides IMO.
 
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#5
#5
Freshmen lining up against 22/23 year old men who are more experienced,more mature physically and mentally is the biggest problem. Due to injuries that's exactly what happened vs bammer.
 
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#7
#7
CountVolcula said:
Ok guys and gals

I have seen post after post about Debord, Shoop, and play calling, but we must not overlook the actual cause of all our problems

The offensive line

Now, when I say this, I'm not pointing fingers at the players. I'm not sure they are to blame and this is why


Most of these guys have been blocking on a line for some time now. Some have been playing football since Junior High or Middle School. Its not like these guys just learned how to block their first day of practice here. Techniques, footwork, leverage are taught at all levels. Its how you gauge a recruit to fit your system.

So, why has the offensive line not improved over a course of 4 years?

Some will say injuries. Yes, to some extent, injuries will effect the cohesiveness of a unit. Guys tend to learn how each other play and adapt. A new player in the line will disrupt this. However, every offensive line player should know one another, practice as a unit, and when one has to replace another for either a breather or an injury, you shouldnt be able to tell the difference. Somewhere, the development of the offensive line is failing

With the failures in the offensive line, come the issues with the other aspects of the team. It causes poor QB play with lack of protection and poor pass blocking. Forcing the QB to throw before the route is set. It causes poor play by RBs by not opening holes, etc. It causes more 3 and outs and drives stall

Now, this the relates to the defenses also. More the offensive line fails at their job to sustain drives and score, the more strain you put on your defense. The defense spends way to much time on the field, takes more snaps than necessary, and eventually wears down. Over the course of several games, this will result in more injuries and poor play because the defense is worn thin.

A poor offensive line also hamstrings the OC on what calls he can call in certain down and distances. On 3rd and long, our OL cannot protect long enough to go down the field. That and along with Dobbs' inaccuracy, is the reason Debord calls so many screens and short passes.

Butch's main focus should lay with the recruitment of OL and coaching in this position. Its pretty obvious to even the most apologetic fan, that Mahoney isnt cutting it as an offensive line coach. Its been our Achilles Heal for going on 4 years and hasnt improved. A change here is more necessary than any position coach on our team. It must be done

Offensive line is the key to a better team and its the most important. No team succeeds without a great offensive or defensive line.

Just my 2¢
Click to expand...

Yep. The 1980's Washington Redskins "Hogs" offensive line were the key to their dominance. Joe Jacoby, Jeff Bostic, Raleigh McKenzie (VFL + Khalil's uncle), Mark May, George Stark...
They set the tone and wore defenses down with big John Riggins running. The team that controls the line wins.
 
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#8
#8
Coleman Thomas is a 3rd year player, I believe.

The other four out there after Kendrick went down were 2nd year players. Richmond and Boulware are RS Freshmen. Hall and Jones are true Sophomores.

With Wiesman, Kendrick and Robertson down our depth is really exposed.

Agreed, Line recruiting has got to improve. This will be Butch's 4th full year of recruiting. He was late in the recruiting process to Tennessee in his first year and the young men he was recruiting to Cincinnati at the time weren't necessarily SEC quality players. That was basically Dooley's class.

This upcoming and next year's recruiting classes will be his true 4th and 5th classes.

You can't rebuild the mess that was Kiffin and Dooley without time and effort. Patience is wearing thin but Bama has been recruiting top talent for many more years than Butch has here.

Time. Time. Tick, tock, tick, tock.
 
#9
#9
We've got 1 OL and 2 LB commits so far, and we wonder why we have no line or linebackers. Based on what we put on field sat we need 5 of each and OL needs to be motorgraders, not gonna beat the Bama's of the world with Atheletic guys need some that can't be pushed around so easily
 
#12
#12
Agreed. OK has been the weak point on this team during the last four years. Dooley can no longer be blamed for that shortcoming. It has to fall on Mahoney. He is the common denominator. We came into this season with a veteran offensive line. You can blame injuries now but what is the excuse for the play against Appalachian State? Why are we still dealing with this issue with guys that have been in the program, starting for two or three years. This offense will not be effective if we cannot run block or pass block.

Butch needs to suck it up and take a hard look at Mahoney. If he doesn't make the changes needed to address the weak links on this staff, he will be dooming himself. Recruits will stop buying in and it will be a downward Dooley like spiral. He needs to make a change this year because good assistant coaches will not be willing to jump on a perceived sinking ship after the 2017 season.
 
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#14
#14
WestGaVol said:
We've got 1 OL and 2 LB commits so far, and we wonder why we have no line or linebackers. Based on what we put on field sat we need 5 of each and OL needs to be motorgraders, not gonna beat the Bama's of the world with Atheletic guys need some that can't be pushed around so easily
Click to expand...
you cant just give a guy a scholly because he plays a position you need.... He has to find the right linemen to fit the scheme he runs..Guys from his last 2 recruiting classes are actually contributing for the most Part all his recruiting classes have been phenomenal when compared to the few years preceding his coming here.
 
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#16
#16
Vols4ever said:
After 4 years, even the starting OL is barely serviceable (pre injury). Frankly, Dobbs made it look much better last year with his running abilities. This year, Dobbs is not running so much and incompetent OL shows up. Mahoney should be gone end of this year.
Click to expand...

Jones has had 4 years to build an OL. The responsibility lies with HIM.

The BEST OL of the Jones' era was the one Dooley left him.... let that sink in a bit.
 
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#17
#17
Vols4ever said:
After 4 years, even the starting OL is barely serviceable (pre injury). Frankly, Dobbs made it look much better last year with his running abilities. This year, Dobbs is not running so much and incompetent OL shows up. Mahoney should be gone end of this year.
Click to expand...

Dobbs was not thinly one to gain yards. Hurd should still break the rushing record at Tennessee in his third year.
 
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#18
#18
sjt18 said:
Jones has had 4 years to build an OL. The responsibility lies with HIM.

The BEST OL of the Jones' era was the one Dooley left him.... let that sink in a bit.
Click to expand...

I want to argue the bold but Im not sure it can be done.
 
#21
#21
The OL play has been bad for years now, and who sees the OL becoming an upper tier SEC OL?

Dobbs, as mobile as he is, leads the SEC in sacks.
 
#22
#22
If Mahoney and Martinez are on staff next year, we can expect to see more of the same. Szerszen needs to go to, or be demoted at the least, in favor of a proven S&C coach.

Debord will be here until Butch is not...
 
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#23
#23
VOLINVONORE said:
Dobbs was not thinly one to gain yards. Hurd should still break the rushing record at Tennessee in his third year.
Click to expand...

That only because he started as a true freshman. He would be closing on 3599 Bt now if he had a above average line for his entire career
 
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#24
#24
The OL looked better in the Georgia and A&M game so I backed off, but they were exposed again last night. Bottom line, even if they bring in an offensive genius as OC, as long as the OL coaching stays the same, things won't be any better. It has been 4 years, so you can't blame youth any more.
 
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#25
#25
Well, I absolutely agree that our OL is not SEC Championship caliber right now. As a matter of timing, in this particular moment we may not even have an SEC East Championship caliber OL.

Our offensive line should be made up of redshirt seniors only supplanted by being recruited over. The redshirt seniors would have been recruited in 2012.

2012 OL recruits = 0
2013 OL recruits = 3 Sanders (5.8), Kendrick (5.5), Wiesman (5.6)
2014 OL recruits = 4 Thomas (5.7), Raulerson (5.6), Blair (JUCO 5.9), Mosley ( 5.7)
2015 OL recruits = 5 Richmond (6.1), J. Jones (5.9), Stewart (5.8), Hall (5.5), Boulware (5.8)
2016 OL recruits = 3 Tatum (5.6), Niehaus (5.6), R. Johnson (5.8)

Sanders is on the kicking team.
Raulerson left the team.
We couldn't find a way to use Blair.
Stewart gave up football.

We moved Robertson a 5.6 rated DT in 2014 to OL.

It is said that it takes 3 years to develop an Offensive lineman - especially in the SEC. HS kids don't cut it in a LOS league and need to mature physically as much as mentally before going into battle.

With no one around from the 2012 class, everyone injured or incapable from the 2013 class, only one recruit marginally contributing from the 2014 class, we are essentially down to Freshmen and sophomores on our offensive line. No offensive line coach is going to fix that against the Alabamas of the world. To the OP's point though, I think we've done poorly overall in OL recruiting and are behind the 8-ball. We have both a talent and an experience deficit on the OL and it has been apparently a monumental challenge for the staff (knowing this particular issue from day one) to fix that with any quality and timeliness. The failure imo is in recruiting. I'm not sure we can reasonably know about development yet.

We missed on OL recruiting in 2014 (IMO) so the foundation of our OL is the 2015 class. At present I don't think we have an elite level competitive OL until possibly 2018 at the earliest, if even then. jmo.
 
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