Obama camp spies endgame in Oregon

#1
OrangeEmpire

OrangeEmpire

The White Debonair
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#1
AFP: Obama camp spies endgame in Oregon

WASHINGTON (AFP) — Barack Obama set his sights on November's general election Saturday as he campaigned in Oregon, where he hopes to declare victory in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination.
Obama has said Tuesday's primaries in Oregon and Kentucky could mark the end of his drawn-out battle with rival Hillary Clinton, and his campaign pressed home that message by announcing a symbolic return to Iowa that day.
Iowa was the scene of the Illinois senator's first victory in the 2008 presidential nominating race, and his campaign noted Saturday it is "a critical general election state that Democrats must win in November."
Polls show Obama leading in Oregon, where 52 delegates are up for grabs, while Clinton is ahead in Kentucky, a state with 51 delegates that has a similar demographic to West Virginia, where she won a thumping victory Tuesday.
His campaign says he needs just 17 more pledged delegates won through state votes to reach a majority of 1,627, not counting the "superdelegates," party officials who can vote either way at August's Democratic national convention.
Using a baseball analogy, Obama said May 8 that if after Tuesday's primaries "we have a majority of pledged delegates, which is possible, then I think we can make a pretty strong claim that we have got the most runs and its the ninth inning and we have won."
The official finishing line is 2,025 delegates, including superdelegates.
During a rally in Roseburg, Oregon, Saturday, Obama presented himself as the front-runner almost without question, attacking presumptive Republican nominee John McCain on foreign policy, the environment and healthcare.
Reviving Friday's furious row sparked by President George W. Bush's suggestion that Democrats wanted to appease terrorists, Obama said that not talking to North Korea and Iran had only made those states stronger.
"I want everybody to be absolutely clear about this because George Bush and McCain have suggested that me being willing to sit down with our adversaries is a sign of weakness and sign of appeasement," he said.
He also attacked McCain's plan for a gas tax holiday to cope with rising pump prices, which Clinton supports, as well as his other environmental plans, saying the Republican had consistently opposed fuel efficiency standards.
"For him to come to Oregon as an environmental president, but his big strategy is to do more drilling and to have a gas tax holiday for three months, that's a phony solution," he said.
Pitching his message to Oregon's environmentally-conscious voters, Obama called on the United States to "lead by example" on global warming, and develop new technologies at home which could be exported to developing countries.
"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK," Obama said.
"That's not leadership. That's not going to happen," he added.
The Illinois senator also argued that the differences between his healthcare plan and that of Clinton "pale in comparison to the differences we have with John McCain," whose proposals would only work "if you're healthy and wealthy."
The escalating rhetoric between Obama and McCain has evoked the kind of campaign battles more common in the immediate run-up to an election -- and emphasized further Obama's pole position in the Democratic race.
But Clinton has vowed to keep fighting until the end of the primary season on June 3, and campaigning in Kentucky Saturday, she defended the plan for the gas tax holiday and accused McCain of having no idea how to fund it.
"Senator McCain said let's give everybody a gas tax holiday but doesn't want to pay for it. I think I've got the best plan. Let the oil companies pay it out of their excess profits," she said.
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Thoughts?
 
#2
#2
"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK," Obama said.
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you know, I could care less if someone in another country doesn't like how I choose to spend the money I've earned.
 
#4
#4
I wonder what kind of vehicle Obama rides in? What temperature do you keep your home? When going about your daily life do you ask random people if they think this or that is ok?
 
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allvol123 said:
Because the guy running for POTUS is concerned if other countries are "OK" with how we live our daily lives.
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I didn't get that at all. In context, he was referring to McCain's energy policy (keep drilling, give a gas tax holiday) and talking about how the US needed to lead the world on energy policy, not be isolationists.

Here's how I interpreted it: gas is about to bust above $4/gallon (whatever that is per barrel of oil, it's a lot), yet we're the least energy efficient country in the world. What Obama's saying is that, if we want to continue to live the way we currently do, we're either going to be isolationists and pay through the nose for the oil we currently use, or we're going to have to be more innovative and figure out ways to be more efficient.

We can't just assume those selling us oil are going to cut us a deal just because we think it's our individual right to drive SUVs and keep the house chilly. We'd be much better off to actually create new technologies that reduce our need for so much oil from those sources, and then in return sell those technologies to the rest of the world.

After hearing him speak and following the campaign, his big message is that there's huge opportunity here. Imagine increased manufacturing of new technologies right here in the US - like solar panel plants, more efficient engines, water preservation systems, etc. (I don't know them all, but you get the point). More jobs, more money, and all in the name of leading the world's energy policy.

That's what I thought he was saying.
 
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I'll go back to your first reply and agree we interpreted it differently.

First I don't think we need to "lead by example" on Global Warming as he states. But McCain probably agrees with him on that one, so no hope there.

Second, you're saying his spiel was about us being "more innovative and figure out ways to be more efficient"? Yet he criticizes Mccain for wanting to do "more drilling"? Don't get it.
 
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allvol123 said:
I'll go back to your first reply and agree we interpreted it differently.

First I don't think we need to "lead by example" on Global Warming as he states. But McCain probably agrees with him on that one, so no hope there.

Second, you're saying his spiel was about us being "more innovative and figure out ways to be more efficient"? Yet he criticizes Mccain for wanting to do "more drilling"? Don't get it.
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First point - that's fair. I think it makes us stronger (both economically and diplomatically) if we lead the world on energy efficiency. But, agree to disagree.

Second - How does drilling more more make us more efficient or more innovative?

Obama's point is that we should figure out how to live our current lifestyles while using less energy to do it. We're wasting a lot right now. Drilling gives us more oil, but it doesn't make us use that oil more efficiently. In fact, it probably reinforces our current energy consumption.

Make sense?
 
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TennNC said:
Second - How does drilling more more make us more efficient or more innovative?
Make sense?
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How does supplying yourself with what you need not make you more efficient? It is more efficient to rely on others and import your oil from half way around the world?
 
#12
#12
Drilling our own oil is the the short term solution for the US. We should do it while drastically altering our energy grid into nuclear plants and electric cars and mass transit.
If OPEC decides to stick it to us or fails in some way, Americans will be howling for us to be drilling our own oil and then it will be too little too late as we wont be able to get the quantities we would need fast enough.
 
#14
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allvol123 said:
How does supplying yourself with what you need not make you more efficient? It is more efficient to rely on others and import your oil from half way around the world?
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Drilling in ANWR or somewhere closer to home is a drop in the bucket of what we need. Drilling isn't the solution.
 
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#16
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TennNC said:
Drilling in ANWR or somewhere closer to home is a drop in the bucket of what we need. Drilling isn't the solution.
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Is it more efficient or not to supply yourself with something if you are able or drag it from halfway aroud the world. The fact is Obama clearly stated it is not a good idea to drill more in America.
 
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TennNC said:
You're right - I used liberties with that statement.

Technically, we're the 7th least energy efficient country in the world, but we consume more energy than any other country in the world. 5% of the world's population uses 25% of the world's energy.

Population and Energy Consumption

Energy use in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Hmmm..just a quick google and I am told we are the most energy efficient. It does not matter the amount we consume in terms of efficiency, if we do more with it.

U.S. leads major countries of world in energy efficiency | Human Events | Find Articles at BNET.com
 
#18
#18
I'm not very pleased with Obama's energy policy, which in my mind is THE most important issue.

We are going to have to drill our own turf unless we start moving into a new direction almost immediately when he takes office. Again I am not in favor of his plan as it doesnt seem good enough. No nuclear and all coal plants, it should be a combination of both.
 
#19
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allvol123 said:
Is it more efficient or not to supply yourself with something if you are able or drag it from halfway aroud the world. The fact is Obama clearly stated it is not a good idea to drill more in America.
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Actually that's incorrect. What he clearly stated is this:

"For him to come to Oregon as an environmental president, but his big strategy is to do more drilling and to have a gas tax holiday for three months, that's a phony solution," he said.

He never said it was not a good idea. He said it was phony to believe it's the solution.
 
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TennNC said:
Actually that's incorrect. What he clearly stated is this:

"For him to come to Oregon as an environmental president, but his big strategy is to do more drilling and to have a gas tax holiday for three months, that's a phony solution," he said.

He never said it was not a good idea. He said it was phony to believe it's the solution.
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OK, I'll assume anything he criticizes McCain on as something he views as "not a good idea".
 
#21
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allvol123 said:
Hmmm..just a quick google and I am told we are the most energy efficient. It does not matter the amount we consume in terms of efficiency, if we do more with it.

U.S. leads major countries of world in energy efficiency | Human Events | Find Articles at BNET.com
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First that article is 7 years old, but anyway, notice the source.

Conservative News, Views & Books - HUMAN EVENTS

By "doing more with it," you mean we turn around and use more of the stuff we make ourselves. Remember, we import way more than we export, so we're using energy to create more stuff, which we in turn use again ourselves -- and even that's not enough, so we import more stuff that we can use (energy and "stuff"). So, actually, we're doing less with more, which makes us the 7th least energy efficient country.
 
#22
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allvol123 said:
OK, I'll assume anything he criticizes McCain on as something he views as "not a good idea".
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As long as you attribute the quote correctly - what he's saying is "not a good idea" is to rely on drilling and tax holidays as the solution to our energy challenges.

If you have a broken leg, you don't just say, "here, take some Advil. That'll do."
 
#23
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TennNC said:
First that article is 7 years old, but anyway, notice the source.

Conservative News, Views & Books - HUMAN EVENTS

By "doing more with it," you mean we turn around and use more of the stuff we make ourselves. Remember, we import way more than we export, so we're using energy to create more stuff, which we in turn use again ourselves -- and even that's not enough, so we import more stuff that we can use (energy and "stuff"). So, actually, we're doing less with more, which makes us the 7th least energy efficient country.
Click to expand...


I saw it was seven years old, I said it was a quick google search. I'll believe we haven't slipped from first to seventh from last in 7 years. And I feel secure that we do more with more and are vastly more efficient than most countries.
 
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TennNC said:
As long as you attribute the quote correctly - what he's saying is "not a good idea" is to rely on drilling and tax holidays as the solution to our energy challenges.

If you have a broken leg, you don't just say, "here, take some Advil. That'll do."
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe his idea would be to tax the oil companies, correct?
 
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allvol123 said:
I saw it was seven years old, I said it was a quick google search. I'll believe we haven't slipped from first to seventh from last in 7 years. And I feel secure that we do more with more and are vastly more efficient than most countries.
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A little knowledge is dangerous.

We never were first. Find another source than Ann Coulter and Robert Novak. We may produce a lot, but we're consuming what we produce. As a country, that's not efficient.

Here's the math: we have 5% of the world's population. We use 25% of the world's energy resources. We have a trade deficit. Therefore we require a lot more input to match our output.

We are not energy efficient.
 
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