Not even a review of totally obvious targeting by Bama

[midtnvol2]

I've actually spoken to replay officials. I have at least a rudimentary understanding of how the process works.



First off, you're making an assumption that you cannot possibly make. Who says he saw the hit in real time? Perhaps he was watching the ball carrier. You know, like the primary camera did. Unlike the refs on the field, the replay official doesn't have a particular spot or position he's supposed to watch throughout the play. Chances are that he's like most viewers and will watch the ball.



There was no "live and close up" on the main feed. Go back and watch the video you posted. The main feed was from the press box camera all the way thru the play. The close up didn't come until the replay.

You are literally full of it and defending your boys. First off the Tennesssee QB had the ball, so the main camera was on HIM for everyone to see. Secondly there was a clear launch into the player leading with his forearm in punch that you can see it go through Hooker. Per the SEC the replay officals crew stationed at the SEC office and at the game have the right to review that play even if a flag wasn't thrown, and also have the power to call the penalty after reviewing the film. One of my kids is a tv producer and has produced live sports football and basketball. I guarantee you there were probably four cameras at that game, not one.. One camera at a game is Conference USA OVC level of TV production not a power five conference. I have sat with him inside the production truck during games. It is MANDATORY by the NCAA confrences that the head official meet with the producer a minimum of 2 hours before the game, to review all camera locations and views. I have witnessed this. It is more critical in basketball due to fewer cameras. If an official doesn't like a particular location, if possible the camera is moved by the production team before the start of the game. There are many bodies inside the truck monitoring each camera and believe me when I say they can grab a replay in a matter of seconds. When a referee picks up the headset they open a communication via the headset line with the producer in the truck and they send the official every camera angle they have on the play in question. The official will usually tell them which ones they want to see again. They are online with the replay official in the booth as well. IF the observation crew at SEC HQ or the in stadium replay official wanted to review the play they could have and had the replays in a matter of seconds. A good producer pays attention to the game and recognizes that critical moments that could possibly be reviewed and is already communicating with others in the truck to start pulling the replays before it is announced. Thats how it is already at the monitor when the official walks over to it. TV production teams at this level have good experience and very professional at their jobs. Again I know and have sat in the truck during several collegiate games. You Sir are blowing smoke!!!!

 

[bamawriter]

You are literally full of it and defending your boys. First off the Tennesssee QB had the ball, so the main camera was on HIM for everyone to see.

He didn't have the ball when he was hit. The camera was following the ball. The hit was closer to the left side of the frame than it was to the middle.

You can argue your point without making stuff up.

Secondly there was a clear launch into the player leading with his forearm in punch that you can see it go through Hooker.

Right. Which is why I said it's hard to tell whether he actually hit helmet-to-helmet.

Per the SEC the replay officals crew stationed at the SEC office and at the game have the right to review that play even if a flag wasn't thrown, and also have the power to call the penalty after reviewing the film.

Absolutely no one is arguing otherwise.

My oldest is a tv producer and has produces live sports football and basketball. I guarantee you there were probably four cameras at that game, not one.

Edited for brevity and because no one is disputing that.

There are many bodies inside the truck monitoring each camera and believe me when I say they can grab a replay in a matter of seconds.

In this case there was a total of 12 seconds between the end of the play and the next snap.

When a referee picks up the headset they open a communication via the headset line with the producer in the truck and they send the official every angle they have on the play. The official can will usually tell them which ones they want to see again. They are online with the replay official in the booth as well.

In football they don't talk to the truck. The head ref talks to the replay official and a control center in Birmingham that has access to every feed from every game. But six of one, really.

IF the observation crew at SEC HQ or the replay official wanted to review the play they could have and had the replays in a matter of seconds.

I agree, they can turn the replay around in a few seconds. But the replay ref needs another few seconds to pick a camera angle and actually watch the play, usually in some form of slow-motion.

I'll reiterate: there were 12 seconds between the end of the play and the next snap. You'll note that the broadcast didn't even get thru one replay without missing the next snap.

A good producer pays attention to the game and recognizes that critical moments that could possibly be reviewed and is already communicating with others in the truck to start pulling the replays before it is announced. Thats how it is already at the monitor when the official walks over to it. Again I know and have sat in the truck during several collegiate games. You Sir are blowing smoke!!!!

You seem to be referring to your experience with basketball which does not translate very well to football.

Without doing a bit of research, I'd be willing to bet that the average signal from the replay booth comes more than 20 seconds after the previous play ends. Would you disagree?

 

[midtnvol2]

He didn't have the ball when he was hit. The camera was following the ball. The hit was closer to the left side of the frame than it was to the middle.

You can argue your point without making stuff up.



Right. Which is why I said it's hard to tell whether he actually hit helmet-to-helmet.



Absolutely no one is arguing otherwise.



Edited for brevity and because no one is disputing that.



In this case there was a total of 12 seconds between the end of the play and the next snap.



In football they don't talk to the truck. The head ref talks to the replay official and a control center in Birmingham that has access to every feed from every game. But six of one, really.



I agree, they can turn the replay around in a few seconds. But the replay ref needs another few seconds to pick a camera angle and actually watch the play, usually in some form of slow-motion.

I'll reiterate: there were 12 seconds between the end of the play and the next snap. You'll note that the broadcast didn't even get thru one replay without missing the next snap.



You seem to be referring to your experience with basketball which does not translate very well to football.

Without doing a bit of research, I'd be willing to bet that the average signal from the replay booth comes more than 20 seconds after the previous play ends. Would you disagree?

To begin with, it doesn't matter if the QB had the ball or in this case just released the ball a mear 1 to maybe 1.5 seconds before he was contacted. The rule states hitting a defenseless player, which Hooker was. A forearm to the head or neck area is targeting. Jesus man NBC Sports rules expert Terry McAuly tweeted it was textbook targeting and should have been stopped and called case closed. And no my kids experience isn't mostly in basketball. He works for an independent production team that has a contract with ESPN. ESPN doesn't have enough equipment or employees to cover all the games they are under contract to cover. These independent companies handle the production with their own equipment and ESPN supply the on air announcers. ESPN supplies these companies with their computer templates, the ESPN graphics that you see on screen, and these production guys set it up. These production trucks are equipped with satalites that send the TV feed to Bristol (ESPN home) for live broadcasts. So if you know about TV production what I just described should register with you that I know what I am talking about. At the SEC level they may interceed at SEC headquarters, but to say nothing goes thru a production truck or production center at any level of college football is simply wrong. You can nitpick whatever anyone says all you want to, but when a 19 year NFL official says its targeting its a safe bet to say it was targeting. Your boys won the game, so why can't you admit they got a pass and no one called the targeting? It really is that simple the video doesn't lie. It doesn't matter if it was 12 seconds or 20 seconds between snaps, if they wanted to stop it they could have.

 

[bamawriter]

To begin with, it doesn't matter if the QB had the ball or in this case just released the ball a mear 1 to maybe 1.5 seconds before he was contacted.

I'm not sure it was even an entire second.

The rule states hitting a defenseless player, which Hooker was. A forearm to the head or neck area is targeting.

That assumes he hit him in the head or neck, which is really hard to see from the brief looks we got. He very well may have.

Jesus man NBC Sports rules expert Terry McAuly tweeted it was textbook targeting and should have been stopped and called case closed.

Having watched McAulay ref NFL games, I'm inclined to take the exact opposite of his stance.

At the SEC level they may interceed at SEC headquarters, but to say nothing goes thru a production truck or production center at any level of college football is simply wrong.

I never said the feed doesn't go thru the truck, I said the refs don't talk to the truck like they do in basketball. What the ref sees in the little box is controlled by the replay official, and both are on the line with Birmingham.

Your boys won the game, so why can't you admit they got a pass and no one called the targeting? It really is that simple the video doesn't lie. It doesn't matter if it was 12 seconds or 20 seconds between snaps, if they wanted to stop it they could have.

I've never made any claim that it definitely wasn't targeting. If someone wants to say that it should have been flagged on the field he'll get no argument from me. My only point is that it's completely bonkers to suggest that UT's desire to get a quick snap off didn't reduce the likelihood of a review.

Think about it: teams that are concerned about a review overturning a play try to snap it as quickly as possible to beat the replay ref to the punch, and they are often successful. To ignore that when UT snapped it so quick that ESPN didn't even get thru one replay is to completely ignore reality.

 

[DuckInAPen]

That assumes he hit him in the head or neck, which is really hard to see from the brief looks we got.

Hooker's head snaps to the right and backward when the defenders helmet crosses in front of Hooker's face mask. Ockham's razor and all that.

 

[bamawriter]

Hooker's head snaps to the right and backward when the defenders helmet crosses in front of Hooker's face mask. Ockham's razor and all that.

Granted. As I said earlier, a view from further down the sideline would have been more helpful than what we got.

 

[midtnvol2]

Obviously you ignore the Hooker's head snap from left to right as your Bama boy hits him with his forearm that was clearly in the video. Only someone like you would question a 19 year NFL head referee. And yes you are still arguing that it wasn't targeting. I know you won't admit it, but there have been plenty of games in the NFL and college where after a critical 1st down spot, or questionable catch the offense runs to the line well under 12 seconds to try and snap the ball and the refs blow the whistle and run in to stop the play. If UT was playing sooo fast that ESPN couldn't show the replay, how is it that we saw other UT offensive replays during the game? You can say what you want, but the bottom line still remains that IF the ONES in charge wanted to stop the game and take a look they could have, but they didn't. Make all the excuses for why they didn't that you want to. It doesn't take but a few seconds to push that button.

 

[bamawriter]

Obviously you ignore the Hooker's head snap from left to right as your Bama boy hits him with his forearm that was clearly in the video. Only someone like you would question a 19 year NFL head referee. And yes you are still arguing that it wasn't targeting. I know you won't admit it, but there have been plenty of games in the NFL and college where after a critical 1st down spot, or questionable catch the offense runs to the line well under 12 seconds to try and snap the ball and the refs blow the whistle and run in to stop the play. If UT was playing sooo fast that ESPN couldn't show the replay, how is it that we saw other UT offensive replays during the game? You can say what you want, but the bottom line still remains that IF the ONES in charge wanted to stop the game and take a look they could have, but they didn't. Make all the excuses for why they didn't that you want to. It doesn't take but a few seconds to push that button.

I don't have the patience to break up you walls of text anymore. I'll just leave this by saying that I'd care more about what literally every poster on here thinks of that play than I do about a former NFL ref's opinion. Officiating in the league is abysmal and has been for decades.

 

[midtnvol2]

I don't have the patience to break up you walls of text anymore. I'll just leave this by saying that I'd care more about what literally every poster on here thinks of that play than I do about a former NFL ref's opinion. Officiating in the league is abysmal and has been for decades.

Ditto, I don't have the stomach to deal with you either. And I agree that the officiating in the SEC has SUCKED for years! But I will admit when we benefit from an obvious miss and say it wrong. There were several in the Mizzu game this year and it wasn't fair to Mizzu.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

I get that, but it's actually difficult to tell if he actually hit Hooker in the head. The best angle would have been from further down the sideline, but we never got that.

He did not have to hit him in the head, it is "the head and neck area." The replay included in this very thread eliminates any question if he was contacted in that area, and for sure it was the clearest launch I have seen this season. He had a great opportunity to cut him in half with his shoulder at the waist but passed to take the head shot.

 

[onevol74]

Obviously you ignore the Hooker's head snap from left to right as your Bama boy hits him with his forearm that was clearly in the video. Only someone like you would question a 19 year NFL head referee. And yes you are still arguing that it wasn't targeting. I know you won't admit it, but there have been plenty of games in the NFL and college where after a critical 1st down spot, or questionable catch the offense runs to the line well under 12 seconds to try and snap the ball and the refs blow the whistle and run in to stop the play. If UT was playing sooo fast that ESPN couldn't show the replay, how is it that we saw other UT offensive replays during the game? You can say what you want, but the bottom line still remains that IF the ONES in charge wanted to stop the game and take a look they could have, but they didn't. Make all the excuses for why they didn't that you want to. It doesn't take but a few seconds to push that button.

Really, even the omission in the game is irrelevant. The SEC Commissioner has the benefit to review the video and make a conclusion post game. Just like he did with Juann Jennings. This test is on him to step forward and show that he is not biased. The obvious lack of holding calls and mis-spotting of the ball on close first down calls are historical with Alabama football. There was a great YouTube video a couple of years ago where the ref spotted the ball and then looked behind him at the yard marker and moved the ball forward for Alabama.

Other conferences have a legitimate gripe about the corruption that goes on in the SEC. We need a major investigation.

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

I wish we didn't have to talk about officiating, but the fact is they give the better teams more leeway with alot of things. Not even say they are doing it intentionally. But who does the brass over officiating think he or they are fooling. SEC fans by and large know the basic rules. Why in Haiti do we even have replay, if it is cheery picked and the stadiums across the sec don't even have all the same angles. And heck they don't use it all the time anyway, the inconsistency in replay usage is ridiculous. And I don't want to hear they looked upstairs and can stop play if needed. That is a cop out that screwed us and others with clearly plays that should have been looked at. No helmet to helmet on Hooker? Are your freaking kidding me, and who in haiti said we don't need to look at that. It is pitiful, and it's not just UT games we have something rotten going on with SEC officials, the best conference with the worst officials who seem to like to control the big games. If they really cared they would make sure all schools had the same cameras everywhere they were deemed needed. Our refs are getting a terrible rep and I wish it wasn't the case. Some calls are tough, but we have issues and the sec office is fooling themselves if they don't think the fans notice. There needs to be more scrutiny among the head of officials and they need to hold them more accountable. There is no place for shady officials or just plain no good officals. They need a better training program and need to be told by higher ups that the standards are going to go up not down with the men in stripes. I just want fair as possible refs, that isn't too much to ask for. GBO!

 

[Mightyvol]

I wish we didn't have to talk about officiating, but the fact is they give the better teams more leeway with alot of things. Not even say they are doing it intentionally. But who does the brass over officiating think he or they are fooling. SEC fans by and large know the basic rules. Why in Haiti do we even have replay, if it is cheery picked and the stadiums across the sec don't even have all the same angles. And heck they don't use it all the time anyway, the inconsistency in replay usage is ridiculous. And I don't want to hear they looked upstairs and can stop play if needed. That is a cop out that screwed us and others with clearly plays that should have been looked at. No helmet to helmet on Hooker? Are your freaking kidding me, and who in haiti said we don't need to look at that. It is pitiful, and it's not just UT games we have something rotten going on with SEC officials, the best conference with the worst officials who seem to like to control the big games. If they really cared they would make sure all schools had the same cameras everywhere they were deemed needed. Our refs are getting a terrible rep and I wish it wasn't the case. Some calls are tough, but we have issues and the sec office is fooling themselves if they don't think the fans notice. There needs to be more scrutiny among the head of officials and they need to hold them more accountable. There is no place for shady officials or just plain no good officals. They need a better training program and need to be told by higher ups that the standards are going to go up not down with the men in stripes. I just want fair as possible refs, that isn't too much to ask for. GBO!

Usually calls even out when the same standards are applied equally. Doesn’t seem to work out this way in the SEC. Makes me wonder if outside influence, ( read money), is at play. Even the replay reviews are suspicious. Over turning calls without clear evidence or letting calls stand with clear evidence the on field call was missed. Always follow the money. UT better start playing not only “big boy football” but “big boy influence”, ( see definition above).

 

[stillwater5]

This was my thought too. We snapped the ball before they could review it. However, it should have been called on the field as this is textbook targeting. He launched and made force able contact to Hooker’s head with the crown of his helmet.

The defender doesn't have to always lead with the crown of the helmet to be called targeting.

 

[Percival]

If we didn't get those calls, at HOME, against Ole Piss, why would you think we'd get them in Satan's Belly, AL next door to the SEC office???

 

[ETSU VOL]

The defender doesn't have to always lead with the crown of the helmet to be called targeting.

No but the defender in this case did. Thank you for your input

 

[onevol74]

No but the defender in this case did. Thank you for your input

He also launched with the helmet.

 

[90 Vol]

The SEC and TV announcers can officially STFU when they start pearl clutching about player safety. That play was clear and obvious targeting and it was dismissed by the announcers and outright ignored by the SEC officials. We now know their priorities and it has nothing to do with player safety.

 

[90 Vol]

He didn't have the ball when he was hit. The camera was following the ball. The hit was closer to the left side of the frame than it was to the middle.

You can argue your point without making stuff up.



Right. Which is why I said it's hard to tell whether he actually hit helmet-to-helmet.



Absolutely no one is arguing otherwise.



Edited for brevity and because no one is disputing that.



In this case there was a total of 12 seconds between the end of the play and the next snap.



In football they don't talk to the truck. The head ref talks to the replay official and a control center in Birmingham that has access to every feed from every game. But six of one, really.



I agree, they can turn the replay around in a few seconds. But the replay ref needs another few seconds to pick a camera angle and actually watch the play, usually in some form of slow-motion.

I'll reiterate: there were 12 seconds between the end of the play and the next snap. You'll note that the broadcast didn't even get thru one replay without missing the next snap.



You seem to be referring to your experience with basketball which does not translate very well to football.

Without doing a bit of research, I'd be willing to bet that the average signal from the replay booth comes more than 20 seconds after the previous play ends. Would you disagree?

It was clear targeting. You're making yourself look like a fool in trying to say otherwise.

 

[bamawriter]

It was clear targeting. You're making yourself look like a fool in trying to say otherwise.

It wasn't clear targeting, and you're making it clear that your fandom is the basis for your conclusion.

Bama released a highlight video yesterday that includes that hit from one of their sideline cameras. I can say, with all confidence, that there was no helmet-to-helmet hit. The only issue would be how high Moore's arm/shoulder hit Hooker. I still haven't seen a decent view of that.

 

[90 Vol]

It wasn't clear targeting, and you're making it clear that your fandom is the basis for your conclusion.

Bama released a highlight video yesterday that includes that hit from one of their sideline cameras. I can say, with all confidence, that there was no helmet-to-helmet hit. The only issue would be how high Moore's arm/shoulder hit Hooker. I still haven't seen a decent view of that.

A Bama released highlight video? I trust that view about as much as I trust out of date gas station sushi.

Bama player launched. Bama players helmet hit Vols QB facemask (part of helmet). Trying to convince everyone that they didn't actually see what they saw is futile.

 

[bamawriter]

A Bama released highlight video? I trust that view about as much as I trust out of date gas station sushi.

Bama player launched. Bama players helmet hit Vols QB facemask (part of helmet). Trying to convince everyone that they didn't actually see what they saw is futile.

Lots of people are convinced they've seen Elvis in the years since 1977. They didn't, but they won't be convinced either.

The same applies here. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I know that it won't happen. I'm simply stating what I know and what I don't know.

 

[BlinghamptonVol]

It wasn't clear targeting, and you're making it clear that your fandom is the basis for your conclusion.

Bama released a highlight video yesterday that includes that hit from one of their sideline cameras. I can say, with all confidence, that there was no helmet-to-helmet hit. The only issue would be how high Moore's arm/shoulder hit Hooker. I still haven't seen a decent view of that.

You got a link to the presumably doctored ‘highlight’?

 

[bamawriter]

You got a link to the presumably doctored ‘highlight’?

No. I don't have a link to any highlight that has been presumably doctored.

 

[BlinghamptonVol]

No. I don't have a link to any highlight that has been presumably doctored.

I was just paving the way for any video evidence that doesn’t support our story to be thrown out as doctored. You might have missed the conspiracy theorists on our 4th down spot against Ole Miss.

But seriously, do you have a link that shows the hit from a different angle? It’s a bye week around here.