Non-Lady Vol Basketball News 2020-21

LadyVols_WBK

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Includes Updated Blue Star 2021 rankings. Sorry about the highlights on UConn players. This was from The Boneyard.
View attachment 324344
I would love to see the Lady Vols 2021 recruiting class ranking on World Exp. Report might tell us why Dan Olson has us as the #5 recruiting class in the nation for the 2021 cycle.
 
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Amb3096

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I would love to see the Lady Vols 2021 recruiting class ranking on World Exp. Report might tell us why Dan Olson has us as the #5 recruiting class in the nation for the 2021 cycle.
He had Wynn ranked pretty high...right around top 20 compared to other services that had her in the lower half of the top 50. He also had Miles in his top 50, which no one else did. Between those two, that would explain why he has Tennessee's class rated so much higher.
 
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lfvol

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Includes Updated Blue Star 2021 rankings. Sorry about the highlights on UConn players. This was from The Boneyard.
View attachment 324344

Thanks for the summary chart. Just reinforces how much SC and UConn crushed it. They certainly aren’t slipping.

Both TX and ND even with a legendary coaching retirement really did well in the second tier.
 
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lfvol

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The point is recruiting does matter, but player rankings can be all over the board.
On an individual, that is sometimes true. But, as it turns out, the teams that get the most top three to five players win the most because the star rate is high. Arguing otherwise ignores the results. UConn and SC are good bets for continued success.
 

VolBall09

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On an individual, that is sometimes true. But, as it turns out, the teams that get the most top three to five players win the most because the star rate is high. Arguing otherwise ignores the results. UConn and SC are good bets for continued success.
Eh recruiting makes some difference. I believe it’s primarily the coaching though. As has been proven both directions, many times over.

Holly had top recruiting classes and was never going to sniff a title because she couldn’t coach basketball. Vic Schaefer built a program at MSST on “nobodies” and had them competing way above their expectations before he ever started pulling in big names.

Doesn’t matter how talented a program’s players are if they aren’t being guided appropriately. I felt very similarly about Lindsay Gottlieb. She was an overrated coach IMO. Her teams got worse and worse as her players got more and more talented. Her best team was the one she inherited her first season. Karen Aston, same thing. Plenty of top 5 talent, no results.
 

Amb3096

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Eh recruiting makes some difference. I believe it’s primarily the coaching though. As has been proven both directions, many times over.

Holly had top recruiting classes and was never going to sniff a title because she couldn’t coach basketball. Vic Schaefer built a program at MSST on “nobodies” and had them competing way above their expectations before he ever started pulling in big names.

Doesn’t matter how talented a program’s players are if they aren’t being guided appropriately. I felt very similarly about Lindsay Gottlieb. She was an overrated coach IMO. Her teams got worse and worse as her players got more and more talented. Her best team was the one she inherited her first season. Karen Aston, same thing. Plenty of top 5 talent, no results.
A good coach who recruits good players will be the right combination 9 out of 10 times. Vic is certainly an exception, but I'm not going to assume that Kellie will replicate Vic's success with lower profile players because she's not at his level as a coach. Besides, even Vic's not going after the same kind of players today as he did when he was building up MSST; he's going for the same elite players that Geno and Dawn are going after.
 

lfvol

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Eh recruiting makes some difference. I believe it’s primarily the coaching though. As has been proven both directions, many times over.

Holly had top recruiting classes and was never going to sniff a title because she couldn’t coach basketball. Vic Schaefer built a program at MSST on “nobodies” and had them competing way above their expectations before he ever started pulling in big names.

Doesn’t matter how talented a program’s players are if they aren’t being guided appropriately. I felt very similarly about Lindsay Gottlieb. She was an overrated coach IMO. Her teams got worse and worse as her players got more and more talented. Her best team was the one she inherited her first season. Karen Aston, same thing. Plenty of top 5 talent, no results.

You are entitled to your opinion. Curious if you think Dawn Staley was a great coach though. As for grabbing an occasional example of coaching up meh talent, fine. It happens. But the most consistent final four team also consistently recruits the best.
 

brassie

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Its not the ingredients, its the cook
So throw water in a pot and a good cook will make a great stew? Great programs typically have great players and great coaching. A team with great players and poor coaching will achieve little and a team with great coaching and mediocre players will do the same.
 

Mr. Doo Wop

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So throw water in a pot and a good cook will make a great stew? Great programs typically have great players and great coaching. A team with great players and poor coaching will achieve little and a team with great coaching and mediocre players will do the same.
Do you consider the talent on the Mississippi State team in 2017 as above average? They achieved a lot with what I thought was average talent. Then again, Maybe it was above average. I believe average and mediocre are the same.
 

Amb3096

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Do you consider the talent on the Mississippi State team in 2017 as above average? They achieved a lot with what I thought was average talent. Then again, Maybe it was above average. I believe average and mediocre are the same.
There are always occasional exceptions to the general rule, and that was one of them. But MSST still had two AP AAs on that team who both ended up as top 8 WNBA draft picks. McCowan and Vivians weren't elite players when they were recruited, but they were by the time Vic was done coaching them. Kellie is not on Vic's level as a coach, so it's not a foregone conclusion she can replicate what he did with less heralded recruits.
 

NeedOrange

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Do you consider the talent on the Mississippi State team in 2017 as above average? They achieved a lot with what I thought was average talent. Then again, Maybe it was above average. I believe average and mediocre are the same.
Victoria Vivians ESPN #24; Morgan William ESPN #25; Teaira McCowan ESPN #45; Dominique Dillingham ESPN #59; Blair Schaefer ESPN # 62; Chinwe Okorie ESPN Not ranked (Lagos Nigeria). They stuck a knife through UConn hearts that may never heal.
 

Amb3096

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Victoria Vivians ESPN #24; Morgan William ESPN #25; Teaira McCowan ESPN #45; Dominique Dillingham ESPN #59; Blair Schaefer ESPN # 62; Chinwe Okorie ESPN Not ranked (Lagos Nigeria). They stuck a knife through UConn hearts that may never heal.
I'd double check your rankings for William, Dillingham and Schaefer. Maybe that was their rankings at their positions, but no way that's a national ranking.

Vivians is higher than I thought she was.
 
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Do you consider the talent on the Mississippi State team in 2017 as above average? They achieved a lot with what I thought was average talent. Then again, Maybe it was above average. I believe average and mediocre are the same.
The greatest compliment to a coach of all time was given to Bear Bryant when it was said, "He can take his'n and beat y'orn and take y'orn and beat his'n.

That to me is the essence of a great coach. One that can take whoever they have and get the very best out of them. I agree, MS team was average in talent....Coach K this year has, to me, above average talent and has a year of introduction to her new conference,,,,This will be a very defining year for me, re her.

There are always occasional exceptions to the general rule, and that was one of them. But MSST still had two AP AAs on that team who both ended up as top 8 WNBA draft picks. McCowan and Vivians weren't elite players when they were recruited, but they were by the time Vic was done coaching them. Kellie is not on Vic's level as a coach, so it's not a foregone conclusion she can replicate what he did with less heralded recruits.
How is this a foregone conclusion...she has yet to be given this same opportunity....Vic had years to take average talent and make them better. We have to give Coach K a chance and a little time before we can make such a statement.

People on here know me and know I am harder on coaching than on any aspect of the program. I am a coach and I define progress by my own internal barometer and by the experiences, both personally and without. If coach K fails to advance in a timely manner, I will be the first to call her out....But for right now she has done as good a job as I could see myself doing in the same given time frame.

Year one: introduction to the conference, level and program

Year two advancement in the inherited personnel, acquiring personnel to fill voids, improvement in in-game coaching and winning the games you are supposed to and maybe stealing a couple you are not supposed to win.

Year three markedly improvement in all aspects, including and especially recruiting.

Year four Elite 8 minimum and for this program, , , Final Four should be the goal by then
 

Amb3096

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How is this a foregone conclusion...she has yet to be given this same opportunity....Vic had years to take average talent and make them better. We have to give Coach K a chance and a little time before we can make such a statement.

People on here know me and know I am harder on coaching than on any aspect of the program. I am a coach and I define progress by my own internal barometer and by the experiences, both personally and without. If coach K fails to advance in a timely manner, I will be the first to call her out....But for right now she has done as good a job as I could see myself doing in the same given time frame.

Year one: introduction to the conference, level and program

Year two advancement in the inherited personnel, acquiring personnel to fill voids, improvement in in-game coaching and winning the games you are supposed to and maybe stealing a couple you are not supposed to win.

Year three markedly improvement in all aspects, including and especially recruiting.

Year four Elite 8 minimum and for this program, , , Final Four should be the goal by then
Do you know what a "foregone conclusion" is? All I'm saying is that there's no guarantee that Kellie will be able to replicate what Vic did in a similar situation. Vic is considered one of the elite coaches in the game; Kellie is not. Maybe she will prove to be one day, but right now...there is no comparison between the two. It's like comparing forecasting a 2nd round NBA draft pick to being the next Michael Jordan without any relevant accolades under his belt yet.

And while I'm at it...please stop using yourself as a barometer for success for Kellie. Experiences as a part-time little league AAU coach is not even close to leading a D1 P5 powerhouse program. So just...just stop already.
 

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