No Football Playoff expansion until at least 2025

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The NCAA has proven useless.

The schools are feckless.

ESPN is apparently running the entire show now.

CFP to remain at 4 teams through 2025 season

 

[bamawriter]

The NCAA has proven useless.

The NCAA doesn't run the playoff and has no say in its expansion.

The schools are feckless.

True. But I don't think this particular issue is a glaring example of that fecklessness.

ESPN is apparently running the entire show now.

I don't know that they run the entire show, but they certainly have a say. So does Fox to a lesser degree.

CFP to remain at 4 teams through 2025 season

Good.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The NCAA doesn't run the playoff and has no say in its expansion.

True. But I don't think this particular issue is a glaring example of that fecklessness.

I don't know that they run the entire show, but they certainly have a say. So does Fox to a lesser degree.

Good.

The NCAA is no longer in a position to exert any pressure on schools. It's not that I'm a fan of the NCAA but leadership needs to come from somewhere for the direction of the inevitable changes to college football.

The schools are no better. Maybe Sankey is ambitious, but not that ambitious, or maybe he's just not a good leader. The school admins have been, are, and will be incompetent to deal with sports because almost all of them got to their positions via politics and academics.

ESPN doesn't give a dang about college football except as a cash cow, as we've seen. They'll stuff as many 3+ hour games as they have endless channels in the eyeballs of viewers as long as the public can stomach endless ads.

That may be reality, but I don't see it as good. Leadership is needed from within or you might as well sell college football to the Big Mouse and let them turn it into a pro league.

 

[bamawriter]

ESPN doesn't give a dang about college football except as a cash cow, as we've seen. They'll stuff as many 3+ hour games as they have endless channels in the eyeballs of viewers as long as the public can stomach endless ads.

That may be reality, but I don't see it as good. Leadership is needed from within or you might as well sell college football to the Big Mouse and let them turn it into a pro league.

I see so many complaints about ESPN, but I think so many of those complaints are misguided. ESPN has made college football accessible to an extent that was unimaginable 15-20 years ago. Every single Power 5 game is now available, including the cannon fodder games that all the big schools play. And while ESPN isn't solely to thank for that, they've done the bulk of the work to make it happen.

 

[05_never_again]

The NCAA is no longer in a position to exert any pressure on schools. It's not that I'm a fan of the NCAA but leadership needs to come from somewhere for the direction of the inevitable changes to college football.

The schools are no better. Maybe Sankey is ambitious, but not that ambitious, or maybe he's just not a good leader. The school admins have been, are, and will be incompetent to deal with sports because almost all of them got to their positions via politics and academics.

ESPN doesn't give a dang about college football except as a cash cow, as we've seen. They'll stuff as many 3+ hour games as they have endless channels in the eyeballs of viewers as long as the public can stomach endless ads.

That may be reality, but I don't see it as good. Leadership is needed from within or you might as well sell college football to the Big Mouse and let them turn it into a pro league.

I mean, that's always been the case and there isn't anything wrong with that. Do you think they aired the games out of the goodness of their heart in 1995? Would you rather go back to PPV and Jefferson Pilot?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I see so many complaints about ESPN, but I think so many of those complaints are misguided. ESPN has made college football accessible to an extent that was unimaginable 15-20 years ago. Every single Power 5 game is now available, including the cannon fodder games that all the big schools play. And while ESPN isn't solely to thank for that, they've done the bulk of the work to make it happen.

With that accessibility has come the huge business that college football has become, the lucrative TV deals for the schools, and the controversy over players making millions for the schools and not getting paid.

The chickens, as they say, are coming home to roost on the "great things" ESPN has done for college football.

Without the massive TV money, we wouldn't see the inevitable lawsuits for revenue sharing/employee status for players.

It's double edged and we're going to see the sharp edge soon when the courts decide players are employees of this big business and can negotiate for revenue sharing.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I mean, that's always been the case and there isn't anything wrong with that. Do you think they aired the games out of the goodness of their heart in 1995? Would you rather go back to PPV and Jefferson Pilot?

Would you rather see players declared employees, essentially professional athletes, and negotiate salaries like the NFL?

 

[05_never_again]

Would you rather see players declared employees, essentially professional athletes, and negotiate salaries like the NFL?

If that happens, it would not be under the auspices of the NCAA.

If you blame the media, remember the reason ESPN is able to make the money and have the power they do is because people like you and me watch it.

 

[dobre_shunka]

Suspect it likely was nixed by the "alliance" of the Big 10 and PAC12. Most of their public comments along with the ACC's have been against expansion

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

If that happens, it would not be under the auspices of the NCAA.

If you blame the media, remember the reason ESPN is able to make the money and have the power they do is because people like you and me watch it.

There has to be, as much as we hate it, a controlling entity of alliances to take care of the interests of the various conferences. It's a necessary evil. Something will replace the NCAA to protect the football interests of UTC, ETSU vs the major SEC players........ unless they spilt entirely, then you have a new pro league and old college leagues.

As for business being business and relying on customers. We're all customers but, similar to cable/streaming, at some point the tail wags the dog and the business is heavily controlling the situation.

The Big Mouse flexed a few months ago with YouTube TV. Look for them to flex more as they gain more power.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

The thing that has me worried about expanding the CFP is the potential for blowouts.

 

[05_never_again]

There has to be, as much as we hate it, a controlling entity of alliances to take care of the interests of the various conferences. It's a necessary evil. Something will replace the NCAA to protect the football interests of UTC, ETSU vs the major SEC players........ unless they spilt entirely, then you have a new pro league and old college leagues.

As for business being business and relying on customers. We're all customers but, similar to cable/streaming, at some point the tail wags the dog and the business is heavily controlling the situation.

The Big Mouse flexed a few months ago with YouTube TV. Look for them to flex more as they gain more power.

If a college league existed that paid players, it would split off from the NCAA and the NCAA would remain to govern the schools that didn't join the super league. If enough people thought like you did and didn't want to watch the college league where players got paid, then the idea would flop or never get off the ground in the first place (like what happened to the proposed Super League in European soccer last year). The market will determine what happens; ESPN is able to do what they do insofar as they have an audience of people watching it.

Ultimately, it is consumers who have the power. ESPN has the power they do because of the number of people that watch the games. And if you want to "get money out of the sport," then you'd go back to the college football of the 1960s, with very few (almost no) games on TV and 25k seat stadiums. I don't think anybody wants that.

 

[LouderVol]

The thing that has me worried about expanding the CFP is the potential for blowouts.

Yeah, people dont want to watch the SEC blow out Notre Dame in a bowl game, they want to watch the SEC blowout Notre Dame in a playoff semifinal. That fixes everything.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

If a college league existed that paid players, it would split off from the NCAA and the NCAA would remain to govern the schools that didn't join the super league. If enough people thought like you did and didn't want to watch the college league where players got paid, then the idea would flop or never get off the ground in the first place (like what happened to the proposed Super League in European soccer last year). The market will determine what happens; ESPN is able to do what they do insofar as they have an audience of people watching it.

Ultimately, it is consumers who have the power. ESPN has the power they do because of the number of people that watch the games. And if you want to "get money out of the sport," then you'd go back to the college football of the 1960s, with very few (almost no) games on TV and 25k seat stadiums. I don't think anybody wants that.

My problem is leadership, as I said.

The dominant force in college football today is ESPN and other media companies. Their interest isn't in football but eyeballs. They control the revenue, the scheduling (not entirely but I'm certain UT isn't a prime time game often because of eyeballs,) bowls, etc.

Leadership. Without it, ESPN pushes it until the courts force the issue when the colleges are sued, they have to decide pro or college, and college football is really gone from programs that can't pay players.

The "salary cap" the NCAA should've instituted should've been on TV money and we wouldn't have this huge business and huge mess.

Colleges were greedy for money without paying players, fans were greedy for TV games...... and greed always comes with a price.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Yeah, people dont want to watch the SEC blow out Notre Dame in a bowl game, they want to watch the SEC blowout Notre Dame in a playoff semifinal. That fixes everything.

I’m more partial of seeing an SEC team, preferably the Vols, blowout Notre Dame in a CFP game in Knoxville or South Bend.

 

[05_never_again]

My problem is leadership, as I said.

The dominant force in college football today is ESPN and other media companies. Their interest isn't in football but eyeballs. They control the revenue, the scheduling (not entirely but I'm certain UT isn't a prime time game often because of eyeballs,) bowls, etc.

Leadership. Without it, ESPN pushes it until the courts force the issue when the colleges are sued, they have to decide pro or college, and college football is really gone from programs that can't pay players.

The "salary cap" the NCAA should've instituted should've been on TV money and we wouldn't have this huge business and huge mess.

Colleges were greedy for money without paying players, fans were greedy for TV games...... and greed always comes with a price.

How exactly would "leadership" curtail ESPN?

ESPN doesn't have the power they do just because. As @bamawriter said, the NCAA doesn't even control the playoff. You expect the NCAA or schools to put a limit on how much money they can bring in? Really? I mean, really? ESPN and other media outlets have always controlled revenue and scheduling. Good teams get the best time slots. You have a problem with that?

What you call "greed" I would call "people are willing to pay them that much money." I can be as "greedy" as I want - it doesn't mean anybody would pay me a dime more.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

How exactly would "leadership" curtail ESPN?

ESPN doesn't have the power they do just because. As @bamawriter said, the NCAA doesn't even control the playoff. You expect the NCAA or schools to put a limit on how much money they can bring in? Really? I mean, really? ESPN and other media outlets have always controlled revenue and scheduling. Good teams get the best time slots. You have a problem with that?

What you call "greed" I would call "people are willing to pay them that much money." I can be as "greedy" as I want - it doesn't mean anybody would pay me a dime more.

If college football intended to remain the traditional game we've enjoyed, it cannot be a multi-million dollar business with unpaid employees.

Leadership at the NCAA level could've specified that NCAA schools signing TV deals need NCAA approval and capped it. Would we get less games on TV? Yep. Would we be in the legal mess of players suing for TV revenue? I'll argue less of a mess if the money involved wasn't ridiculous. It's not worth suing if the money involved is smaller.

The NCAA has let this happen with a lack of control over the schools. They focused on the players making money with NIL and fought it to the death but allowed the schools to go nuts making money and paying coaches huge money.

Leadership. Good company leadership controls growth and doesn't just go after the "short money."

 

[05_never_again]

If college football intended to remain the traditional game we've enjoyed, it cannot be a multi-million dollar business with unpaid employees.

Leadership at the NCAA level could've specified that NCAA schools signing TV deals need NCAA approval and capped it. Would we get less games on TV? Yep. Would we be in the legal mess of players suing for TV revenue? I'll argue less of a mess if the money involved wasn't ridiculous. It's not worth suing if the money involved is smaller.

The NCAA has let this happen with a lack of control over the schools. They focused on the players making money with NIL and fought it to the death but allowed the schools to go nuts making money and paying coaches huge money.

Leadership. Good company leadership controls growth and doesn't just go after the "short money."

The NCAA would have splintered the second that was proposed into a group that resembles the current NCAA and a "super league" separate from the NCAA. If anything, it would have accelerated the speed at which the game has changed and not controlled anything.

 

[bamawriter]

Leadership at the NCAA level could've specified that NCAA schools signing TV deals need NCAA approval and capped it. Would we get less games on TV? Yep. Would we be in the legal mess of players suing for TV revenue? I'll argue less of a mess if the money involved wasn't ridiculous. It's not worth suing if the money involved is smaller.

That ship sailed back in the 80s when Georgia and Oklahoma beat the NCAA in court.

And your argument about the NCAA exerting their power to control the schools is nonsensical. The NCAA is the schools. They aren't a separate entity. They execute the will of the schools, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The NCAA would have splintered the second that was proposed into a group that resembles the current NCAA and a "super league" separate from the NCAA. If anything, it would have accelerated the speed at which the game has changed and not controlled anything.

So you're agreeing the schools were greedy, aren't you? The split would've been purely over money, not this "traditional game" we've seen touted about NIL and players being paid.......but about schools making big money.

Again, the lack of leadership and control over the schools and lack of control over the expansion of the money made by schools created this mess. The NCAA chose to allow a very lucrative, fast expanding TV business and that's gotten us to this point where the courts are looking at the business and seeing unpaid employees making their employers millions. It didn't have to be allowed to happen.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

That shipped sailed back in the 80s when Georgia and Oklahoma beat the NCAA in court.

And your argument about the NCAA exerting their power to control the schools is nonsensical. The NCAA is the schools. They aren't a separate entity. They execute the will of the schools, nothing more and nothing less.

That's the real point. The NCAA IS the schools and the schools fought paying players for decades.

Now, when the courts come after them, the fans are looking at the employees as the bad guys in this.

The schools were greedy as hell and ruined the game.

 

[bamawriter]

That's the real point. The NCAA IS the schools and the schools fought paying players for decades.

Now, when the courts come after them, the fans are looking at the employees as the bad guys in this.

The schools were greedy as hell and ruined the game.

I'm not arguing against that at all. The schools had decades to put together a workable plan for treating the players fairly and they flat out refused to do so. So, the option had to be taken away from them.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I'm not arguing against that at all. The schools had decades to put together a workable plan for treating the players fairly and they flat out refused to do so. So, the option had to be taken away from them.

I believe I began this lamenting the the lack of leadership.......

 

[05_never_again]

So you're agreeing the schools were greedy, aren't you? The split would've been purely over money, not this "traditional game" we've seen touted about NIL and players being paid.......but about schools making big money.

Again, the lack of leadership and control over the schools and lack of control over the expansion of the money made by schools created this mess. The NCAA chose to allow a very lucrative, fast expanding TV business and that's gotten us to this point where the courts are looking at the business and seeing unpaid employees making their employers millions. It didn't have to be allowed to happen.

No, I'm not saying they were greedy. They had an opportunity to increase their income and did so.

The NCAA and the schools, as bama said, are one in the same. If the NCAA (more specifically, some schools within the NCAA) proposed a "salary cap" that limited the amount of money they could bring in, all the big money schools would have left the very next day. It's akin to a company putting a cap on employee salaries and some employees not liking it and leaving. It would not have solved anything and, in fact, would have likely already led to the creation of an alternate league that allowed for the bigger TV contracts, paying players, etc.

Once these amounts of money entered the picture (and again, that's because of fans like you and me and nobody else), the idea of college sports as this quaint little institution where people played "for the love of the game" and "it wasn't about money" went out the door.

 

[bamawriter]

I believe I began this lamenting the the lack of leadership.......

But it's not in issue of leadership. The NCAA were digging in their heels on paying players because that's exactly what the schools wanted them to do. Everyone, from the top down, fought this tooth and nail.