Next time someone brings up #voltwitter IRT Schiano...

[GetYouSomeofThat]

I agree… BUT… I did not like that we tried to use the Sandusky thing to justify it. That wasn’t cool. Schiano was innocent of all that.

We didn’t want to replace Butch with a .500 coach, we wanted someone better. That’s what this was really about. Using the Sandusky case and acting like that was our main concern was low class.

While from a strict legal definition he is innocent of the accusations, there is no evidence to support that McCleary just made up a story and implicated a couple of other coaches in ignoring the atrocities that were going on. In this case I for one am not convinced he didn't turn a blind eye to what was happening. Maybe out of sheer disbelief or maybe out of protecting the Penn State brand or even fear of retribution.

Regardless, I'm happy he isn't here and think that that he is not as innocent in reality as he is legally.

 

[turbovol]

Schiano is a sick individual and had to know what was happening at PSU. That whole program should of been taken apart to never play college football again.

Says someone who has no idea what was going on at penn state. The protest was dumb--period. End of story.

 

[nlovu]

Stop with the Schiano defense.
He is a sub 0.500 college head coach and an 11-21 NFL head coach whose players despised him.
OSU passed him over when Urban was suspended.
“The PSU allegations were never proven” is hardly a sufficient qualification to be a head coach at UT.

I'm not defending Schiano. I'm saying the fans got what they wanted when he wasn't hired as they were respohnsioble for it and the ultimate hiring of Pruitt.

 

[I4Vols]

The greatest moment led to the hiring of the biggest catastrophe in TN football history that will likely lead to probation and possibly vacated victories that will allow Georgia to jump TN in the all-time wins? Interesting. Schiano would have recruited better, not lost to GSU, not had the program placed on probation, and left the program in so much better shape for the next coach.

He must be your uncle... for God's sake, he's back as head coach of Rutgers.
He's a good match there, but I didn't see a mad rush from a bunch of other major schools for him.
Maybe if he does so good, is so squeaky clean, and then beats Penn State a bunch, they will hire him... IMO he's a good match there too.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

Says someone who has no idea what was going on at penn state. The protest was dumb--period. End of story.

You’re no better than the man himself.

Just stop.

 

[MoodyVol]

Logical to assume he wouldn't have gotten TN on probation, would have won more games, and wouldn't have embarrassed the university by losing to GSU.

So it was logical to assume that Pruitt would, given there was no evidence whatsoever of that inclination?

 

[dduncan4163]

Wow, I never knew Manchester United didn't want us to hire Schiano either.

 

[ALLVOL 4LIFE]

1. you don't know that.
2. you don't know that, either.
3. and, you don't know that.

None of those three alternate outcomes you mention are fact; they are all conjecture. Maybe Schiano gets to Tennessee, lets his infamous temper take over, and has a fist fight with the school president. Or admits okay yes, he did actually see something in the shower that evening up in Happy Valley. Or any of an infinite variety of other less than stellar outcomes.

Maybe his recruiting tanks. Maybe he cheats. Maybe he leaves the program even worse than Pruitt did.

We'll never know.

But there are two key things we do know:

1. The University of Tennessee will never be associated in any way with the Paterno/Sandusky scandal. Neither through known events nor through clouds of suspicion. We're clear of all that. Our student body are free from that.

2. The Tennessee fan base has heart, and pride, and an ability to make itself heard. Some might call that a bad thing. I think it's a fine thing.

And, by the way, if you want to play this A-then-B game, saying that our rejecting Schiano caused us to get Pruitt, then you also have to play the B-then-C thing, and admit that our firing Pruitt led us to Danny White and Josh Heupel. And if Heup leads our lads to an SEC championship at some point in the next few years, your A-then-B-then-C logic will suddenly be looking pretty damn smart.

In any case, that's all bad logic. Because we didn't reject Schiano in favor of Pruitt. We simply rejected Schiano. And damn glad about it.

Go Vols!

All else aside, you left out the most important of all reasons that Schiano didn’t need to be our coach.

He sucks as a HC and is still proving it today. I know he had a very small run where his team was good, but that was all due to Ray Rice

 

[ALLVOL 4LIFE]

While from a strict legal definition he is innocent of the accusations, there is no evidence to support that McCleary just made up a story and implicated a couple of other coaches in ignoring the atrocities that were going on. In this case I for one am not convinced he didn't turn a blind eye to what was happening. Maybe out of sheer disbelief or maybe out of protecting the Penn State brand or even fear of retribution.

Regardless, I'm happy he isn't here and think that that he is not as innocent in reality as he is legally.

And he sucks as a HC.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

All else aside, you left out the most important of all reasons that Schiano didn’t need to be our coach.

He sucks as a HC and is still proving it today. I know he had a very small run where his team was good, but that was all due to Ray Rice

I didn't leave it out so much as I just didn't want to repeat myself.

Covered in some detail the nested reasons we the Vols fan base rejected Schiano in this thread:

...

Rejecting Schiano was the right thing to do no matter what else followed. Both because he was possibly (not for sure, but quite possibly) a pedophile enabler at Penn State, and because he's not a very good coach.

Folks without a moral compass have trouble understanding people who do have strong values. They tend to look for the "real reasons" behind a values-based decision. They think it's just a fig leaf. In that way, cretins like Pat Forde (and a few folks on these boards) give away their lack of a moral foundation to their character.

Rejecting Schiano for the moral reason wasn't a condemnation of the man. We don't know for sure whether the rumors about his complicity were true. We only know that it is possible they were true, and we do not want a great program and university like Tennessee associated with that. We're not trying to hang Schiano...only keep him away from our lads and lasses, just in case. That's reasonable. It's logical.

But folks without a moral compass can't see that. So they convince themselves that it's really about him not being a good coach.

Okay, we can go there too, because that's also a very good reason to reject Schiano. He's not a very good coach. His weak leadership became evident during his brief NFL stint. He is apparently acerbic, builds drama and dissention in the locker room. Can't brook any authority other than his own; he's an autocrat. Not a good man to have around young adults, teaching them how to grow into greatness. You have to model greatness to lead others to it. Schiano is not capable of that.

And then, finally and most baldly, the man isn't very good at winning football games. This is the point where Herbstreit and other supporters' minds immediately go to that one magical 11-2 season at Rutgers, back in 2006. You know, the season he tied for 2nd. In the Big East conference.

Fact is, Schiano's record as a head coach at Rutgers, even the first time around, the lauded time, was just 68-67. One game above .500. Take out the magical 11-2 year, and what's left? That's not a championship coach, it's a mediocre coach in a mediocre conference. Butch Jones has stronger credentials than that.

And since then, it has been nothing but downhill for Greg. 11-21 in Tampa Bay, along with the already-mentioned locker room drama. And since his return to Rutgers, 8-14. He went 3-6 in his first season, but okay that was his first year, and on top of which it was the Covid year. A weird season to be sure. So give the man a mulligan for that. How about his second season? 5-8. Even Jeremy Pruitt was able to muster 8 wins in his second season. Schiano couldn't even come close to Pruitt.

So if we reject Pruitt, whose second season was three games stronger than Schiano's, you think we're going to now look back with regret for not accepting Greg?

Please.

Only a fool argues, "see what you got, Tennessee, you rejected Schianio and now just see what you got." Only a fool.

Go Vols!

So...yeah. I'd already said it, a few weeks ago. Heh.

Go Vols!

 

[OrangeTsar]

Schiano has never gotten a program on probation.
Schiano took Rutgers to 5 straight bowl games, 6 in 7 years winning 5 of them along with an 11 win season.

Now let’s talk Tampa Bay……

 

[Delmar]

Must we rehash the Schitano mess over and over? He didn’t end up here by whatever means necessary and that is a good thing. He’s a mediocre coach and would have been a bad fit in Knoxville. Period. There should be a ban on future threads about the jerk. Nobody cares anymore.

 

[nlovu]

Now let’s talk Tampa Bay……

Ok. He was about the same as Spurrier and Saban in the NFL.

 

[VOL89grad]

”While from a strict legal definition he is innocent of the accusations, there is no evidence to support that McCleary just made up a story and implicated a couple of other coaches in ignoring the atrocities that were going on. In this case I for one am not convinced he didn't turn a blind eye to what was happening. Maybe out of sheer disbelief or maybe out of protecting the Penn State brand or even fear of retribution.”

^^ This ^*

Folks, we’re just a few weeks away from actual football on Rocky Top… it’s really time to move on. I, like many, have lived through ups and downs.. thankfully it’s trending up on Rocky Top. While I have no ill will for Sciano (go win the big X baby), he was never a good fit for our team, Volunteer nation…. and (most importantly) would never bring us back to being elite in the conference/getting us to competing for national championships. Move on folks, this is just a silly distraction… get ready to give your all for our team this fall!

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Schiano took Rutgers to 5 straight bowl games, 6 in 7 years winning 5 of them along with an 11 win season.

This is what we should all call the "Kirk Herbstreit argument" in favor of Schiano.

But it's just not a valid argument.

Rutgers, under Schiano, had one "magical year." In that incredible, glorified season, they went 11-2. And tied for second. In their conference. The weakest of the big conferences. A conference that doesn't even exist any more. Yep, the Big East. So in this amazing year, Rutgers under Schiano was able to come in second in a glorified Group of 5 conference.

Heck, Butch Jones won his Group of 5 conference title, I think twice. Greg Schiano could only get 2nd place? And in complete accuracy, he just tied for 2nd with someone else. West Virginia, I think.

So taking out that one incredible season, how did Rutgers do the first time around under Schiano's leadership? 57-65, over the other ten years.

Yep, Greg Schiano coached Rutgers for 11 years on his first go-round, and his record, minus the magical year, was a 47% win rate. Even including the unicorn-special 2006 season, his record was 68-67 (50.4%).

We recently had a thread in which we debated the "best 5" and "worst 5" head coaches in Tennessee history. I think some of the Worst 5 had better win rates than that.

Here are some of the Greg Schiano season results from that 11-year stint that has Kirk Herbstreit such a fan:
'01 - 2 wins, 9 losses (remember, these are in the weakest "Power 5" conference in existence at the time)
'02 - 1 win, 11 losses
'03 - 5 wins, 7 losses
'04 - 4 wins, 7 losses
'05 - 7 wins, 5 losses
'10 - 4 wins, 8 losses

Now, to give the man his due, there were a handful of 8- and 9-win seasons mixed up in between those shoddy results.

Yes. Including the magical mystical year, Schiano had almost as many losing seasons as winning seasons. In a putridly weak conference.

It boggles the mind why Herbstreit thinks those are strong credentials.

The man never won his conference. He never sniffed the Top 10. He never got within shouting distance of the BCS. He got double digit wins one year, and came in second. That's his big claim to fame.

...

And that doesn't even get into how his two years in the NFL exposed some serious leadership flaws.

It doesn't even get into his first two seasons back at Rutgers, where he has gone 3-6 followed by 5-8...and with Rutgers now being a member of the B10 conference, chances are Schiano will never see double digit wins again. I'd frankly be surprised if he can put together a 7-5 regular season. Ever again.

And none of THAT gets into the potential that he might. just might, have enabled a child sexual predator by turning a blind eye.

...

Dang it, I went and repeated myself. Maybe this latest batch of Schiano apologists needed to hear it again, though.

Go Vols!

 

[ALLVOL 4LIFE]

I didn't leave it out so much as I just didn't want to repeat myself.

Covered in some detail the nested reasons we the Vols fan base rejected Schiano in this thread:


So...yeah. I'd already said it, a few weeks ago. Heh.

Go Vols!

Sorry, I was only going by the post I quoted. But yeah! We right, he still sucks.

 

[Iam4utalways]

This is what we should all call the "Kirk Herbstreit argument" in favor of Schiano.

But it's just not a valid argument.

Rutgers, under Schiano, had one "magical year." In that incredible, glorified season, they went 11-2. And tied for second. In their conference. The weakest of the big conferences. A conference that doesn't even exist any more. Yep, the Big East. So in this amazing year, Rutgers under Schiano was able to come in second in a glorified Group of 5 conference.

Heck, Butch Jones won his Group of 5 conference title, I think twice. Greg Schiano could only get 2nd place? And in complete accuracy, he just tied for 2nd with someone else. West Virginia, I think.

So taking out that one incredible season, how did Rutgers do the first time around under Schiano's leadership? 57-65, over the other ten years.

Yep, Greg Schiano coached Rutgers for 11 years on his first go-round, and his record, minus the magical year, was a 47% win rate. Even including the unicorn-special 2006 season, his record was 68-67 (50.4%).

We recently had a thread in which we debated the "best 5" and "worst 5" head coaches in Tennessee history. I think some of the Worst 5 had better win rates than that.

Here are some of the Greg Schiano season results from that 11-year stint that has Kirk Herbstreit such a fan:
'01 - 2 wins, 9 losses (remember, these are in the weakest "Power 5" conference in existence at the time)
'02 - 1 win, 11 losses
'03 - 5 wins, 7 losses
'04 - 4 wins, 7 losses
'05 - 7 wins, 5 losses
'10 - 4 wins, 8 losses

Now, to give the man his due, there were a handful of 8- and 9-win seasons mixed up in between those shoddy results.

Yes. Including the magical mystical year, Schiano had almost as many losing seasons as winning seasons. In a putridly weak conference.

It boggles the mind why Herbstreit thinks those are strong credentials.

The man never won his conference. He never sniffed the Top 10. He never got within shouting distance of the BCS. He got double digit wins one year, and came in second. That's his big claim to fame.

...

And that doesn't even get into how his two years in the NFL exposed some serious leadership flaws.

It doesn't even get into his first two seasons back at Rutgers, where he has gone 3-6 followed by 5-8...and with Rutgers now being a member of the B10 conference, chances are Schiano will never see double digit wins again. I'd frankly be surprised if he can put together a 7-5 regular season. Ever again.

And none of THAT gets into the potential that he might. just might, have enabled a child sexual predator by turning a blind eye.

...

Dang it, I went and repeated myself. Maybe this latest batch of Schiano apologists needed to hear it again, though.

Go Vols!

But they are comparing him to JP.

It is logical to assume that he would have done better that JP.

I don’t know you.

It is logical to assume you would have done better than JP. Why? It’s a logical assumption that you would have made a QB change. Definitely after the Alabama fiasco.

A HC having their wife be the bag man? I have to admit that I was surprised to hear that part.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Ok. He was about the same as Spurrier and Saban in the NFL.

I ain’t talking just about W/L record here…..
Greg Schiano loses Tampa Bay Buccaneers with autocratic style

 

[peaygolf]

 

[stolitonic]

…..and would have been just barely good enough to hang around four or five seasons with constant promises of future improvements while simultaneously forever destroying all of the program‘s relationships with all of the football programs in the state due to his well documented toxic personality
No thanks. The program needed an enema. And if Pruitt did nothing else, all lest he provided THAT

∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆
This

Funniest part of it all is that the Schiano lovers still say Vol fans should not have done what we did.
.
It has now been almost five years. The only job offer Schiano received in that time was from Rutgers. Rutgers. I'm sorry, but if we have to fight Rutgers for a coach this is no longer Tennessee football

 

[OrangeTsar]

∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆
This

Funniest part of it all is that the Schiano lovers still say Vol fans should not have done what we did.
.
It has now been almost five years. The only job offer Schiano received in that time was from Rutgers. Rutgers. I'm sorry, but if we have to fight Rutgers for a coach this is no longer Tennessee football

Interestingly enough, that is still one more job offer than Phil ever got after his time at HC

 

[volanatic]

So you have no idea what was said but you're going ahead and labeling it a case of snowflakes, and go on a tired rant about the "liberal meda"; which is hilarious because it's pretty obvious you eat up the media that sells the "anti-woke" because it obviously sells to certain segment of the population.

Can you not read?

 

[nlovu]

This is what we should all call the "Kirk Herbstreit argument" in favor of Schiano.

But it's just not a valid argument.

Rutgers, under Schiano, had one "magical year." In that incredible, glorified season, they went 11-2. And tied for second. In their conference. The weakest of the big conferences. A conference that doesn't even exist any more. Yep, the Big East. So in this amazing year, Rutgers under Schiano was able to come in second in a glorified Group of 5 conference.

Heck, Butch Jones won his Group of 5 conference title, I think twice. Greg Schiano could only get 2nd place? And in complete accuracy, he just tied for 2nd with someone else. West Virginia, I think.

So taking out that one incredible season, how did Rutgers do the first time around under Schiano's leadership? 57-65, over the other ten years.

Yep, Greg Schiano coached Rutgers for 11 years on his first go-round, and his record, minus the magical year, was a 47% win rate. Even including the unicorn-special 2006 season, his record was 68-67 (50.4%).

We recently had a thread in which we debated the "best 5" and "worst 5" head coaches in Tennessee history. I think some of the Worst 5 had better win rates than that.

Here are some of the Greg Schiano season results from that 11-year stint that has Kirk Herbstreit such a fan:
'01 - 2 wins, 9 losses (remember, these are in the weakest "Power 5" conference in existence at the time)
'02 - 1 win, 11 losses
'03 - 5 wins, 7 losses
'04 - 4 wins, 7 losses
'05 - 7 wins, 5 losses
'10 - 4 wins, 8 losses

Now, to give the man his due, there were a handful of 8- and 9-win seasons mixed up in between those shoddy results.

Yes. Including the magical mystical year, Schiano had almost as many losing seasons as winning seasons. In a putridly weak conference.

It boggles the mind why Herbstreit thinks those are strong credentials.

The man never won his conference. He never sniffed the Top 10. He never got within shouting distance of the BCS. He got double digit wins one year, and came in second. That's his big claim to fame.

...

And that doesn't even get into how his two years in the NFL exposed some serious leadership flaws.

It doesn't even get into his first two seasons back at Rutgers, where he has gone 3-6 followed by 5-8...and with Rutgers now being a member of the B10 conference, chances are Schiano will never see double digit wins again. I'd frankly be surprised if he can put together a 7-5 regular season. Ever again.

And none of THAT gets into the potential that he might. just might, have enabled a child sexual predator by turning a blind eye.

...

Dang it, I went and repeated myself. Maybe this latest batch of Schiano apologists needed to hear it again, though.

Go Vols!

All of that when I wasn't arguing Schiano was a good coach.

 

[nlovu]

I ain’t talking just about W/L record here…..
Greg Schiano loses Tampa Bay Buccaneers with autocratic style

His style hasn't led to NCAA violations and has led to a better college record than the guy who was hired because the fans insisted Schiano not be hired.

 

[VolsSince78]

All of that when I wasn't arguing Schiano was a good coach.

I don’t get how a Vol “fan” would be hung up on hiring Pruitt instead of Schiano at this point.

Schiano is a proven mediocre HC. He’s also a prick. And common sense indicates he stayed mum when he knew of child molestation in his midst.

Hiring Pruitt led to hiring White & Heupel in 3 yrs.- a good reset.

I’m sure Rutgers football & Schiano have room for any former lightweight Vol fans who cannot get past UT not hiring Schiano. They can join Rutgers fans in bashing UT fans & Admin for an incident 4+ yrs ago, as they watch their team continue to lose.

Meanwhile, Vol fans are looking ahead again.