New statues going up

[Hacksaw]

It was never there, thus the firsts for black athletes in the SEC was in late 60s and early 70s.

Addressing that fact would help. It was never color blind and trying to pretend it was for most of the existence of college football isn't reality.

How much more addressing will finally make it good? Answer: no amount ever will.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Agreed, it is a big ask, and a fair point.

However, it's not a big ask to avoid regression, like what is happening currently.

That depends on your definition of regression.

I just found the pining for a “color blind society” ironic, as if that was the goal universally throughout this country’s history.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

How much more addressing will finally make it good? Answer: no amount ever will.

Indeed. Pretending race doesn't matter is like pretending a human's sex doesn't matter.

It changes how we interact and have interacted since birth. "Different from me" is grounded for good and bad reasons.

Let's stop insisting it isn't there anymore. It is.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Damn JP.

Beautifully said! And I do agree...

But i noticed you didn't agree with Tee being there. May I ask why?

Thanks, Little. I appreciate it.

Hmm, why not Tee? First, let's look at the others:

• First black player at Tennessee...huge trailblazer, undoubtedly faced off against tons of racism and didn't back down.
• First black quarterback...absolutely. Same-same. Took a lot of courage and commitment.
• First black team captain? Okay, seems a little more contrived, but I can see it. To be team captain, you have to be respected by both your coaches and your teammates. It's a leadership role, one you are explicitly picked out of the crowd for. And you'll have to deal with resentment from teammates (and their families and friends) who think the honor should've been theirs. So yeah, I sort of get this one, too.

But I don't get Tee's inclusion. What does winning a national title add to the SOCIAL hardship and challenges of being a trailblazer? In fact, when Tee took the starting job the year after Peyton left, I don't remember any talk about him breaking any new ground. I don't want to give Vols fans too much credit, there were (and are) certainly racists among our ranks, but we as a community took Tee in stride. I never thought of him as a "black quarterback." I just thought of him as our starting quarterback, a good kid from Mobile with a shy smile and the unenviable job of following after Manning. You never want to be the guy to replace the guy, right?

Except Tee made the most of it, with his teammates. They absolutely did great. Won a national title and all. Really proud of them.

But a unique, trailblazing role in the face of ugly opposition? Huge moral courage in spite of threats?

I don't think Tee faced those kinds of challenges any more than the next lad.

I respect Tee. Hold a special place in my heart for him, and all the members of the '98 squad.

I just don't think this is a statue-worthy thing, not any more than, say, Travis Stephens or Travis Henry, or any number of other guys (of all colors) on the '98 team.

I'm probably not explaining very well, Little. Tee's place in our history just didn't seem, to me, to fit the same mold as the others. As a Jackie Robinson kind of accomplishment.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there are horror stories out there about what Tee faced, and I'm just ignorant of them. IDK.

But that's why I have the perspective I do.

Sorry for the long answer. It didn't seem something I could say in 25 words.

Go Vols!

 

[turnuptheVOLtage]

We should already have statues for Doug Atkins, Reggie White, and Peyton

 

[Doberman]

That depends on your definition of regression.

I just found the pining for a “color blind society” ironic, as if that was the goal universally throughout this country’s history.

I find the folks that bring up the color the most, least want to be judged by said color. More irony.

 

[bigorange]

What a trainwreck of what otherwise should have been a really great thread.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

I find the folks that bring up the color the most, least want to be judged by said color. More irony.

That hasn’t been my experience, then again I’ve never walked a mile in your shoes.

 

[CubsFanTN]

Would be nice if I could say 'yes'

 

[Doberman]

That hasn’t been my experience, then again I’ve never walked a mile in your shoes.

Perhaps geography has something to do with it. But the TV and national news seem to reflect my observations.

 

[zjcvols]

Congrats to those four gentlemen and well deserved to all four.

 

[zjcvols]

Me thinking this thread wouldn’t turn into a disaster and then reading it

 

[VolInNW]

Thanks, Little. I appreciate it.

Hmm, why not Tee? First, let's look at the others:

• First black player at Tennessee...huge trailblazer, undoubtedly faced off against tons of racism and didn't back down.
• First black quarterback...absolutely. Same-same. Took a lot of courage and commitment.
• First black team captain? Okay, seems a little more contrived, but I can see it. To be team captain, you have to be respected by both your coaches and your teammates. It's a leadership role, one you are explicitly picked out of the crowd for. And you'll have to deal with resentment from teammates (and their families and friends) who think the honor should've been theirs. So yeah, I sort of get this one, too.

But I don't get Tee's inclusion. What does winning a national title add to the SOCIAL hardship and challenges of being a trailblazer? In fact, when Tee took the starting job the year after Peyton left, I don't remember any talk about him breaking any new ground. I don't want to give Vols fans too much credit, there were (and are) certainly racists among our ranks, but we as a community took Tee in stride. I never thought of him as a "black quarterback." I just thought of him as our starting quarterback, a good kid from Mobile with a shy smile and the unenviable job of following after Manning. You never want to be the guy to replace the guy, right?

Except Tee made the most of it, with his teammates. They absolutely did great. Won a national title and all. Really proud of them.

But a unique, trailblazing role in the face of ugly opposition? Huge moral courage in spite of threats?

I don't think Tee faced those kinds of challenges any more than the next lad.

I respect Tee. Hold a special place in my heart for him, and all the lads of the '98 squad.

I just don't think this is a trophy-worthy thing, not any more than, say, Travis Stephens or Travis Henry, or any number of other guys (of all colors) on the '98 team.

I'm probably not explaining very well, Little. Tee's place in our history just didn't seem, to me, to fit the same mold as the others. As a Jackie Robinson kind of accomplishment.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there are horror stories out there about what Tee faced, and I'm just ignorant of them. IDK.

But that's why I have the perspective I do.

Sorry for the long answer. It didn't seem something I could say in 25 words.

Go Vols!

JP, I am in favor of the statues, but you make excellent points about Tee. Not really in the same situation as the other three....at all.

 

[buckwild]

Tyler Bray deserves a statue. The guy tore up the strip every night #legend

 

[golfballs]

That depends on your definition of regression.

I just found the pining for a “color blind society” ironic, as if that was the goal universally throughout this country’s history.

That should be the goal. That why he asked what happened to it?

 

[Pacer92]

I applaud our university recognizing the importance of fair and impartial treatment to all people, regardless of skin color or family background or ethnic group.

At the same time, I regret that we continue to emphasize the things that divide us into groups and (potentially, though without intending to) pit us against each other.

What do I mean? Simple. Don't celebrate "whiteness" or "blackness" or "brownness" or "yellowness." Instead, celebrate key individual accomplishments and proven team excellence.

One quick example: number 42. We celebrate Jackie Robinson for having the courage and tenacity to break barriers in American sport. Some mistake that as celebrating his color. But for many folks, it's not about his skin color: it's about his values and his heart and his energy in SPITE of people throwing obstacles in his path (because of his color). We celebrate his individual excellence as a trailblazer, his character and courage and commitment. Not his membership in one sub-section of society or another. The latter is identity politics, and is wholly divisive.

That's a fine distinction, maybe. Some people won't get it. That's fine.

All I know is, we gotta start following Dr. King's dream, judging each other by the quality of our character rather than the color of our skin. We gotta stop highlighting differences, stop dividing ourselves into groups. Because the latter causes those groups to start competing...and eventually fighting.

Let's look instead for the things that bring us together.

Go Vols!

 

[UTK]

Until we stop dividing ourselves based on arbitrary physical characteristics, we're never going to advance as a species. Whatever happened to the goal of a color-blind society?

Because people are different colors. It's not something that should be ignored. It's something that should be celebrated. Everyone of us is human, but its also important to understand peoples origins and life experiences. I get you mean good, the first thing you see in someone shouldn't be the color of their skin. I agree fully, but the color of someone's skin is a part of who they are. And that's okay. Because that diversity makes the world a much more interesting place. It's about accepting people the way they are, not turning a blind eye to it. You have the right idea, we should be human beings first regardless of race, but someone's race is a part of them and that's okay. The goal is to eliminate racism, not race.

 

[vol66]

All deserving, I think it’s great!

 

[zjcvols]

Okay, here’s the case for Tee without the “pandering” some of you want to bring up.

1) Tee is the only modern Tennessee QB to win a legitimate national title at the University of Tennessee (sorry Swamp Rat, 1967 doesnt count unfortunately).

2) Tee, whether fair or not, is the public face of the 98 team. Ask non UT fans to name a player from the 98 team, he would be the most popular answer.

3) Tee was the last QB to lead us to an SEC title.

4) He is the second most recognized QB nationally in UT history.

5) Tee was the first black SEC QB to win a national title.

6) He saved us from Jeremy Pruitt.

Let the man have his statue for god sakes.

 

[JRich]

I really don't know what to think about this. It's great, I guess, that UT wants to honor themselves for being pioneers in racial integration, but they were still behind much of the nation. Also, I can't help but think that coaches and administration in those times were merely trying to win ball games and not be racial "pioneers." Maybe some of you guys know better. Not sure Tee had to go through the same stuff as the other guys.

Someone had to be first, I guess it's cool it was UT? Last to leave the Union and first to rejoin?? The whole thing seems kind of morbid and I can't help but think that they are just jumping on board with the latest media hype about race. The action seems almost apologetic.

 

[sona]

Congrats to those four gentlemen and well deserved to all four.

Had only you posted first, you could have racked up a hundred likes and set a positive tone for this thread.

Do better.

 

[JRich]

Okay, here’s the case for Tee without the “pandering” some of you want to bring up.

1) Tee is the only modern Tennessee QB to win a legitimate national title at the University of Tennessee (sorry Swamp Rat, 1967 doesnt count unfortunately).

2) Tee, whether fair or not, is the public face of the 98 team. Ask non UT fans to name a player from the 98 team, he would be the most popular answer.

3) Tee was the last QB to lead us to an SEC title.

4) He is the second most recognized QB nationally in UT history.

5) Tee was the first black SEC QB to win a national title.

6) He saved us from Jeremy Pruitt.

Let the man have his statue for god sakes.

...but isn't #4 the only reason for the statue? It seems like tokenism to me. "We didn't give you a statue for leading our team to an undefeated SEC and national championship season, but here is one for being black."

 

[zjcvols]

...but isn't #4 the only reason for the statue? It seems like tokenism to me. "We didn't give you a statue for leading our team to an undefeated SEC and national championship season, but here is one for being black."

I know this is shocking to some people, but it’s okay that it is both. I’m sure if Tee lead that team to a 9-3 record he wouldn’t be getting a statue.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Okay, here’s the case for Tee without the “pandering” some of you want to bring up.

1) Tee is the only modern Tennessee QB to win a legitimate national title at the University of Tennessee (sorry Swamp Rat, 1967 doesnt count unfortunately).

2) Tee, whether fair or not, is the public face of the 98 team. Ask non UT fans to name a player from the 98 team, he would be the most popular answer.

3) Tee was the last QB to lead us to an SEC title.

4) He is the second most recognized QB nationally in UT history.

5) Tee was the first black SEC QB to win a national title.

6) He saved us from Jeremy Pruitt.

Let the man have his statue for god sakes.

I don't agree with this at all. That was Al Wilson's team, period!

 

[JRich]

I know this is shocking to some people, but it’s okay that it is both. I’m sure if Tee lead that team to a 9-3 record he wouldn’t be getting a statue.

That's exactly my point. The fact that he is black is only a bonus for UT. Tee Martin has always been Tee Martin, and it's been 23 years and no statue, but now that race is a hot topic, boom statue.