New College Sports Commission rejecting NIL deals with collectives. It has begun

[volfan102455]

Either straighten up the mess or end the concept of college football and let all the schools get back to educating our youth,

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Either straighten up the mess or end the concept of college football and let all the schools get back to educating our youth,

False Dilemma, much?

 

[volfan102455]

False Dilemma, much?

No personal opinion from one who is tired of the greed and craziness that is ruining the University.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

Greed and craziness are ruining the US. What's happening to the university is a side affect..

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Greed and craziness are ruining the US. What's happening to the university is a side affect..

Capitalism naturally runs on profit and market checks. An entrepreneur finds a niche and exploits that value to the market for the most profit possible until competition dials the price back.

It's not evil. It's built in the system: make hay while the sun shines, strike while the iron is hot, etc, etc.

It is not greedy to expect to profit from something you have that others want. If your price is too high, the market has to correct it via competition with others who also have it. If you have a monopoly or near monopoly on an item (like individual football or basketball talent) you get rich because lots of people want to watch you.

Nothing evil is going on here. People continue to clamor over sports prices while they gladly pay $8 a gallon for cold water like it's nothing at a convenience store or over $5 for a mass produced 1/4lb hamburger at McDonald's by the billions and are happy about it.

 

[volfan102455]

Capitalism naturally runs on profit and market checks. An entrepreneur finds a niche and exploits that value to the market for the most profit possible until competition dials the price back.

It's not evil. It's built in the system: make hay while the sun shines, strike while the iron is hot, etc, etc.

It is not greedy to expect to profit from something you have that others want. If your price is too high, the market has to correct it via competition with others who also have it. If you have a monopoly or near monopoly on an item (like individual football or basketball talent) you get rich because lots of people want to watch you.

Nothing evil is going on here. People continue to clamor over sports prices while they gladly pay $8 a gallon for cold water like it's nothing at a convenience store or over $5 for a mass produced 1/4lb hamburger at McDonald's by the billions and are happy about it.

I understand capitalism and have no problem with that. The purpose of an educational institutions is to educate students, perform important research, etc.

My problem is with the thought that these athletes get nothing in return for playing at a high-profile university. It is a two-way street.

These athletes get a platform to showcase their talent. Without that platform, it doesn't matter how talented they are - they would have "nowhere" to play; thus no one would know who they are or even care - thus their NIL is "worth nothing". If college football failed to exist in 5 years, they would be pedaling their wares in an NFL minor league with little to no "name" recognition making significantly less than the value of what the University gives them today.

It is all bounded in getting $$ for free without having to do anything to earn it.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I understand capitalism and have no problem with that. The purpose of an educational institutions is to educate students, perform important research, etc.

My problem is with the thought that these athletes get nothing in return for playing at a high-profile university. It is a two-way street.

These athletes get a platform to showcase their talent. Without that platform, it doesn't matter how talented they are - they would have "nowhere" to play; thus no one would know who they are or even care - thus their NIL is "worth nothing". If college football failed to exist in 5 years, they would be pedaling their wares in an NFL minor league with little to no "name" recognition making significantly less than the value of what the University gives them today.

It is all bounded in getting $$ for free without having to do anything to earn it.

Simple. Stop watching. Stop paying the carriage fees. If you don't want or like the product, stop buying it.

Your complaint falls as hollow as anyone who complains: this isn't right that these people get paid so much to ____ (be an electrician, plumber, etc) when that without my business, they have nothing.

Play your own damn football and basketball in the backyard or plumb your own house then.

Otherwise, what's your complaint? YOU support this with your carriage fee payments, merch buys, ticket buys, and potentially DECADES of various forms of support as the sports business at UT became WELL beyond the mission of the school as an educational institution. Did it just start to be a multimillion dollar business when NIL started? No...... but now you complain when the players get a slice of the pie.

Hate it for you that someone who actually has blood, sweat, and hard summer work in the sport actually gets paid from the sport you love to watch. I'm sure you feel it's unfair.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

No personal opinion from one who is tired of the greed and craziness that is ruining the University.

It's still a false dilemma. Real life business deals are rarely limited to two opposite choices. This one has multiple options. That makes your either/or suggestion a classic false dilemma regardless of what you like or dislike.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I understand capitalism and have no problem with that. The purpose of an educational institutions is to educate students, perform important research, etc.

My problem is with the thought that these athletes get nothing in return for playing at a high-profile university. It is a two-way street.

These athletes get a platform to showcase their talent. Without that platform, it doesn't matter how talented they are - they would have "nowhere" to play; thus no one would know who they are or even care - thus their NIL is "worth nothing". If college football failed to exist in 5 years, they would be pedaling their wares in an NFL minor league with little to no "name" recognition making significantly less than the value of what the University gives them today.

It is all bounded in getting $$ for free without having to do anything to earn it.

False Dilemma. Universities have many other purposes. Rallying support around sports teams is one such. Winning is another. Meeting potential life partners is another. Networking is still another. There are more.

You're definitely a fan of a false dilemma.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

It's contracted by the NCAA and it works for the NCAA.

And it is going to share the liability with the NCAA when the Antitrust lawsuit gets filed and ruled on.. Barring an antitrust exemption, of course. That has't happened and may never occur.

 

[volswitten1]

Garza Law Firm gets the most from his NIL money.

 

[volfan102455]

False Dilemma. Universities have many other purposes. Rallying support around sports teams is one such. Winning is another. Meeting potential life partners is another. Networking is still another. There are more.

You're definitely a fan of a false dilemma.

Those are secondary outcomes. You can meet life partners where you work - but that is not the purpose of the company you work for. You can network where you work, but that is not the purpose of the company you work for. You can do the same at church and other activities where people gather but those gatherings typically have a very different purpose for existence.

The primary purpose of a university is to provide educational opportunities to those that attend and research opportunities to faculty and students alike.

Take away the educational angle and it is no longer the University of Tennessee Volunteers .. but the Knoxville Volunteers as there is no tie to anything related to the state educational system or the state government.

 

[UT97Vol]

In before all the lawsuits start. Over/under on this entity making it a year?

Members of the House have already slammed the process. From NYT...

In a letter to the power conferences and NCAA, obtained by The Athletic, attorneys Jeffrey Kessler and Steve Berman stated that the guidance the College Sports Commission (CSC) issued Thursday violates the terms of the settlement and that it should treat collectives the same as any other third-party business.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Those are secondary outcomes. You can meet life partners where you work - but that is not the purpose of the company you work for. You can network where you work, but that is not the purpose of the company you work for. You can do the same at church and other activities where people gather but those gatherings typically have a very different purpose for existence.

The primary purpose of a university is to provide educational opportunities to those that attend and research opportunities to faculty and students alike.

Take away the educational angle and it is no longer the University of Tennessee Volunteers .. but the Knoxville Volunteers as there is no tie to anything related to the state educational system or the state government.

I believe the Athletic Dept at UT has its own budget, pays lots of its own bills, etc NOW so it is essentially separate from the university.

Only the archaic NCAA "they must be students" rules keep it from being a pro sports business ESPECIALLY now that the Athletic Dept will pay the players

Tied to the school? The same way Pilot is tied to Berkshire. They own it and set the leadership but they pretty much leave Pilot alone.

Do you think Buffett has any clue that Pilot paid whatever it paid to get the logo on the field? Doubtful. Berkshire chose the leadership and lets Pilot run like UT chose Danny White and lets him run UT Athletics.

Much of the connection to the school is gone now. Elite players are barely students compared to normal students, have a special cafeteria, provided tutors, provided healthcare, etc, etc. Continue to fool yourself that the teams are "just students who choose to play sports" if you wish but that's not the case in the SEC.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Those are secondary outcomes. You can meet life partners where you work - but that is not the purpose of the company you work for. You can network where you work, but that is not the purpose of the company you work for. You can do the same at church and other activities where people gather but those gatherings typically have a very different purpose for existence.

The primary purpose of a university is to provide educational opportunities to those that attend and research opportunities to faculty and students alike.

Take away the educational angle and it is no longer the University of Tennessee Volunteers .. but the Knoxville Volunteers as there is no tie to anything related to the state educational system or the state government.

You're cherry picking.

Given that only around 62% of college students actually earn even one degree, tell me again how the primary purpose is to educate when nearly 40% don't graduate.

There isn't just one primary purpose. There are several. One such is sports, especially football. The amount of time, effort, money, PR, and alumni support that sports bring are not secondary. In fact, every UT alum I know is a football fan and donor first. It's the only money they spending UT.

LIfe partners? Many college students go to party, and to meet sex - not life - partners. That may not meet your definition of the purpose of the University but it sure meets the definition for a lot of students.
That's not the only place it can happen, but again you're cherry picking other places it happens and ignoring a fact of life for the University.

You don't get to cherry pick one purpose for places that clearly have several, depending on whom is focusing on what purpose.

Remember, the big alcohol butt chugging party that got the TN legislature to modify the state underage drinking law changed to add anal ingestion of alcohol? Yeah, that one happened at UT. Box wine and IV tubing, baby. Legal when it happened.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I believe the Athletic Dept at UT has its own budget, pays lots of its own bills, etc NOW so it is essentially separate from the university.

Only the archaic NCAA "they must be students" rules keep it from being a pro sports business ESPECIALLY now that the Athletic Dept will pay the players

Tied to the school? The same way Pilot is tied to Berkshire. They own it and set the leadership but they pretty much leave Pilot alone.

Do you think Buffett has any clue that Pilot paid whatever it paid to get the logo on the field? Doubtful. Berkshire chose the leadership and lets Pilot run like UT chose Danny White and lets him run UT Athletics.

Much of the connection to the school is gone now. Elite players are barely students compared to normal students, have a special cafeteria, provided tutors, provided healthcare, etc, etc. Continue to fool yourself that the teams are "just students who choose to play sports" if you wish but that's not the case in the SEC.

The athletes are indeed students. They have to be to be eligible to play sports.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

Capitalism naturally runs on profit and market checks. An entrepreneur finds a niche and exploits that value to the market for the most profit possible until competition dials the price back.

It's not evil. It's built in the system: make hay while the sun shines, strike while the iron is hot, etc, etc.

It is not greedy to expect to profit from something you have that others want. If your price is too high, the market has to correct it via competition with others who also have it. If you have a monopoly or near monopoly on an item (like individual football or basketball talent) you get rich because lots of people want to watch you.

Nothing evil is going on here. People continue to clamor over sports prices while they gladly pay $8 a gallon for cold water like it's nothing at a convenience store or over $5 for a mass produced 1/4lb hamburger at McDonald's by the billions and are happy about it.

Evil it is not.

 

[YankeeVol]

It has always been pay to play but just in different form: Tuition, Room and Board, Trainers, medical staff, tutors, wine, women and song, etc…

Players have always been paid to play just the pay was not commiserate to their importance to the team except Alabama and a few other favored schools…

At least Bama didn't use McDonald's bags....

 

[volfan102455]

You're cherry picking.

Given that only around 62% of college students actually earn even one degree, tell me again how the primary purpose is to educate when nearly 40% don't graduate.

Oh please! You are now cherry picking. Schools in general, be they grade school, high school or college were created to 'educate' folks.

The University of Tennessee was founded in 1794 - the first college football game occurred circa 1861 with the first rules written in 1876. The first UT team was in 1891, almost 100 years after the University was founded.

Yes, a lot of students do not obtain a degree. There are many reasons for that. But that does not imply that the primary purpose of the University is not to educate students. Why someone attends a college is a very different thing and many unfortunately can't make the adjustment from high school to college or encounter other situations that make them leave school or put off school for a while and then go back later to finish. I am one of those that started, then returned to finish what I started.

There are circa 38,000 students who attend UTK. There are around 700 athletes. The average yearly cost to attend UTK is around 33K (for instate, 50K+ for out of state). The overwhelming majority of the dollars funneled into the University is from academics and research NOT from the AD.

 

[stolitonic]

You saw at least one. We all did. The Moonshine Mountain Cookie Company, or whatever they were called, and their deal with first Alontae Taylor, then Bru McCoy. Every interception (Alontae) or touchdown (Bru) wins all fans two free cookies, that deal? Yah, that was one of the first value-added NIL deals for our program, I think. Guess it will go again this year with some new player.


p.s. I don't think this new direction will survive the courts. Who is this new agency to say what methods of valuing a players name, image and likeness are more valid than others? If I want to pay a young man to come sign autographs, and invite the fans to pay an entry fee to show up as well, is that "just gathering money to pay for the player to be in the program? Or is there inherent value for the fans sharing time with the lads? How much value? That's up to the people paying for a ticket to decide. Right? Capitalism at work?

In a day and age where people will happily pay hundreds of dollars for a single game ticket, who is to say it's not really worth it to them to pay hundreds to spend time with a star player and get photos with him and some signatures on merch? How can they possibly argue the only purpose of those gatherings is to earn money to pay the kid to play for that team?

Arguments in this realm get really circular, really fast. Nah, don't see it lasting through the courts.

Go Vols!

Did Moonshine Mountain "sponsor" a player last year?

Just realized I don't recall it being mentioned on any of the broadcasts last season

I know Bri did a deal last year for medical equipment where something got donated for every touchdown or whatever

 

[volfan102455]

Much of the connection to the school is gone now. Elite players are barely students compared to normal students, have a special cafeteria, provided tutors, provided healthcare, etc, etc. Continue to fool yourself that the teams are "just students who choose to play sports" if you wish but that's not the case in the SEC.

The majority of the student athletes earn degrees and earn them early. They do attend classes and learn something else besides their sport. That is what students do - take classes, learn, earn a degree. They are students as well as athletes. And they are not the only ones who partake in activities outside of their education - the band members, the cheerleaders, those that participate the theatric groups, etc. - all of those are doing something as well - maybe they also should be paid and marked as a "non-student".

Some play sports for the hope that it helps them to make the NFL, NBA, MLB - but only a few of them will do that - so most are playing sports for the chance to earn an education and get it paid for.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The majority of the student athletes earn degrees and earn them early. They do attend classes and learn something else besides their sport. That is what students do - take classes, learn, earn a degree. They are students as well as athletes. And they are not the only ones who partake in activities outside of their education - the band members, the cheerleaders, those that participate the theatric groups, etc. - all of those are doing something as well - maybe they also should be paid and marked as a "non-student".

Some play sports for the hope that it helps them to make the NFL, NBA, MLB - but only a few of them will do that - so most are playing sports for the chance to earn an education and get it paid for.

I'm certainly not saying ACTUAL college athletics is bad. It's very good for both the athletes and non-athletes.

What's bad is the business, huge business, some schools have turned sports into at their university. There's nothing in the mission of the school that should require multi million dollar, state of the art, training and rehab facilities which are only used by athletes or multimillion dollar, larger than pro teams have stadiums, or coaches who are by far the highest paid college (even state) employees.

It's grotesquely out of line with a school's mission and it's done in the name of winning and attracting elite athletes....... not education.

Not all colleges do this. Those that do should spin that business off of the university and form a pro league. If they can restart ACTUAL college athletics, wonderful, but what they're doing currently is running a pro sports franchise alongside a school.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I'm certainly not saying ACTUAL college athletics is bad. It's very good for both the athletes and non-athletes.

What's bad is the business, huge business, some schools have turned sports into at their university. There's nothing in the mission of the school that should require multi million dollar, state of the art, training and rehab facilities which are only used by athletes or multimillion dollar, larger than pro teams have stadiums, or coaches who are by far the highest paid college (even state) employees.

It's grotesquely out of line with a school's mission and it's done in the name of winning and attracting elite athletes....... not education.

Not all colleges do this. Those that do should spin that business off of the university and form a pro league. If they can restart ACTUAL college athletics, wonderful, but what they're doing currently is running a pro sports franchise alongside a school.

None of that is required. It's a choice. For UT, it's a very good choice.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Oh please! You are now cherry picking. Schools in general, be they grade school, high school or college were created to 'educate' folks.

The University of Tennessee was founded in 1794 - the first college football game occurred circa 1861 with the first rules written in 1876. The first UT team was in 1891, almost 100 years after the University was founded.

Yes, a lot of students do not obtain a degree. There are many reasons for that. But that does not imply that the primary purpose of the University is not to educate students. Why someone attends a college is a very different thing and many unfortunately can't make the adjustment from high school to college or encounter other situations that make them leave school or put off school for a while and then go back later to finish. I am one of those that started, then returned to finish what I started.

There are circa 38,000 students who attend UTK. There are around 700 athletes. The average yearly cost to attend UTK is around 33K (for instate, 50K+ for out of state). The overwhelming majority of the dollars funneled into the University is from academics and research NOT from the AD.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Again, you're arguing a false dilemma. There is no single "primary purpose". There are multiples.

The fact that you're arguing it on a sports board is hysterical.