Negative Recruiting - Nature of the threat? Examples?

[BruisedOrange]

One possible "weakness" in our system that we haven't discussed (apologies if we have and I just missed it) is what it means in this system to have sufficient roster depth to sustain losses to injury in certain roles. In my thinking, we have to go deeper than others to remain injury-proof.

On traditional teams, the roster plays a starting five, and thus needs backups for each player. Given the propensity of bigs for getting in foul trouble, those teams usually need two or more backups to protect the rim or run their offense through the low post.

In our system, while we are more generally "positionless," the roles of ball distribution and rim protection require some "specialized traits." Since our system already requires two starting PGs and at least two starting bigs just to play our platoon-like substitution pattern, our roster has the added need to be skilled enough, deep enough to provide backups at the roster's third level--a level that traditional teams fill with "practice" players or "developmental" players.

We actually have to recruit more top players than other teams. But, what we offer to more top quality players is (for now) unique to the marketplace. If there's a weakness in all this, it's that other coaches can (however casually) collude in their negative recruiting accusations.

There's always been negative recruiting by one school against one or two regional or conference competitors. But maybe not since John Wooden's glory days at UCLA has there been a single coach/program against which coaches nationwide would understand needs to be counter-messaged for the good of everyone else.

A thought for distraction, while we wait impatiently for the season to start and mourn our losses in other orange uniforms. Would also love to read specifics about what negative recruiters are claiming against CKC and our program.

 

[NATHAN05]

I agree with you and in theory this would be awesome to stack teams with talent like the 90's Vols teams and Bama past decade or so. Unfortunately I think this is super difficult for us (or anyone really) with NIL / new transfer rules as these 4 and 5 star kids dont wanna ride the pine or wait their turn like days past.

I pretty much only follow the Vols like most here, but looking around the WEEKLY re-vamped top 25 I don't think we're the only ones suffering for depth issues when a quality player has gone down. I think the playoffs will be full of -1 or -2 loss teams.........game has changed for sure.

 

[KingBlue]

in one of caldwell's appearances on vol confidential with austin price
she spoke briefly on how other schools negative recruit against tennessee

and the bulk of the negativity seems to be centered around the style of play
with the hockey subs and playing time being the crux of their attempts to dissuade recruits

there's probably more mudslinging than that, but that's all she was willing to shed light upon

 

[DarkPhoenix]

The negative thing I’ve been hearing over the last year is the hockey substitutions, if she just subbed maybe 2 players at a time and spread it out, they wouldn’t have anything negative to say. It’s just seeing 5 players at the scorers table every 60 seconds that certain people don’t like. I’m not the coach so I won’t give my option on what should be done, I’ll just say I’ll be looking closely at how she substitutes this year.

 

[lvocd]

I kinda think it might not be a good idea to bring even more attention to anything negative (false or not) that opposing coaches and supporters are saying about Tennessee by asking for specific examples.

 

[Mafiaboss]

One possible "weakness" in our system that we haven't discussed (apologies if we have and I just missed it) is what it means in this system to have sufficient roster depth to sustain losses to injury in certain roles. In my thinking, we have to go deeper than others to remain injury-proof.

On traditional teams, the roster plays a starting five, and thus needs backups for each player. Given the propensity of bigs for getting in foul trouble, those teams usually need two or more backups to protect the rim or run their offense through the low post.

In our system, while we are more generally "positionless," the roles of ball distribution and rim protection require some "specialized traits." Since our system already requires two starting PGs and at least two starting bigs just to play our platoon-like substitution pattern, our roster has the added need to be skilled enough, deep enough to provide backups at the roster's third level--a level that traditional teams fill with "practice" players or "developmental" players.

We actually have to recruit more top players than other teams. But, what we offer to more top quality players is (for now) unique to the marketplace. If there's a weakness in all this, it's that other coaches can (however casually) collude in their negative recruiting accusations.

There's always been negative recruiting by one school against one or two regional or conference competitors. But maybe not since John Wooden's glory days at UCLA has there been a single coach/program against which coaches nationwide would understand needs to be counter-messaged for the good of everyone else.

A thought for distraction, while we wait impatiently for the season to start and mourn our losses in other orange uniforms. Would also love to read specifics about what negative recruiters are claiming against CKC and our

 

[Mafiaboss]

The negative thing I’ve been hearing over the last year is the hockey substitutions, if she just subbed maybe 2 players at a time and spread it out, they wouldn’t have anything negative to say. It’s just seeing 5 players at the scorers table every 60 seconds that certain people don’t like. I’m not the coach so I won’t give my option on what should be done, I’ll just say I’ll be looking closely at how she substitutes this year.

Do you think the team would be better if Kim subbed less? I have no idea.

 

[Sudden Impact]

One possible "weakness" in our system that we haven't discussed (apologies if we have and I just missed it) is what it means in this system to have sufficient roster depth to sustain losses to injury in certain roles. In my thinking, we have to go deeper than others to remain injury-proof.

On traditional teams, the roster plays a starting five, and thus needs backups for each player. Given the propensity of bigs for getting in foul trouble, those teams usually need two or more backups to protect the rim or run their offense through the low post.

In our system, while we are more generally "positionless," the roles of ball distribution and rim protection require some "specialized traits." Since our system already requires two starting PGs and at least two starting bigs just to play our platoon-like substitution pattern, our roster has the added need to be skilled enough, deep enough to provide backups at the roster's third level--a level that traditional teams fill with "practice" players or "developmental" players.

We actually have to recruit more top players than other teams. But, what we offer to more top quality players is (for now) unique to the marketplace. If there's a weakness in all this, it's that other coaches can (however casually) collude in their negative recruiting accusations.

There's always been negative recruiting by one school against one or two regional or conference competitors. But maybe not since John Wooden's glory days at UCLA has there been a single coach/program against which coaches nationwide would understand needs to be counter-messaged for the good of everyone else.

A thought for distraction, while we wait impatiently for the season to start and mourn our losses in other orange uniforms. Would also love to read specifics about what negative recruiters are claiming against CKC and our program.

I have no Idea and I am guessing but Lesser $$$$ amount equals more playing time in the system for KC. The portal gives them a year and recognition if they want to change. Only a few players get more playing time in the WNBA's team. Some players with talent sit on the bench for 2 years at other schools before they get on the court for meaningful minutes. With every game under KC players get meaningful minutes. I am waiting for the WNBA to adopt this method of play.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Do you think the team would be better if Kim subbed less? I have no idea.

I dont know, I haven’t seen enough to make that judgement yet. I think it depends on the roster, some players need more time on the court for rhythm and some may not. One thing I would like to know, does she take them out because they’re tired or is because she has them on a time clock? Judging if it’s a good system or not will depend on if she wins Championships, the critics say u can’t win like that and some players won’t want to play in that system, others will say of u have a roster full of good enough players it can work.

 

[Rickster]

I think "Kim Ball" is fun for the fans. Sports is about entertainment and I find her brand of ball very entertaining. Her brand does require a certain type of player to excel but with creative substitutions, just about any player can contribute. Players in her system have won a lot. That's a big selling point. Wins are what captures elite attention. Elite players want to win. As far as negative recruiting tactics go.......losing games or looking bad in games is one thing and it almost always manifests itself as negative pressure on the staff. Another negative is a negative fan base. A negative fan base will do all the negativity research and post it for free. That's doing a lot of work for the opposing coaches.

 

[knoxvol52]

Loyola Marymount under Paul Westphal in the late 80's ran the same type of run and gun offense...


Bo Kimble averaged 32 minutes per game... I'm not the head coach but I believe the women could go longer than the quick subs in and out... Jmo.. I'm far from being the Head Coach ...

 

[BruisedOrange]

FWIW, Kim says if they aren't gasping for air after two minutes, they get immediately challenged by the staff about why they haven't been playing all out. Players are more often begging to come out, before the next wave can come in. That's what she wants.

Unless a player just hates playing fast tempo, why wouldn't you want your video resume for professional ball to show you playing full speed, full focus, making decisions, every second? And for all the substitutions, players get to play free, not constantly responding to directions from the bench. Everyone could see how much players (like Spearman) improved during last season.

Seems to me the questions/accusations about playing fewer consecutive minutes and having frequent substitutions were well answered last season--and certainly didn't prevent us from accumulating top recruiting and transfer classes! And when CKC recruits players, it's always with the understanding you're expected to come in and play immediately.

So that's why I'm wondering what the new negative recruiting logic could be. I don't see anything on the court or during games that could be spun as negative. But I still have the feeling that's what's happening out there this recruiting season.

 

[chuckiepoo]

FWIW, Kim says if they aren't gasping for air after two minutes, they get immediately challenged by the staff about why they haven't been playing all out. Players are more often begging to come out, before the next wave can come in. That's what she wants.

Unless a player just hates playing fast tempo, why wouldn't you want your video resume for professional ball to show you playing full speed, full focus, making decisions, every second? And for all the substitutions, players get to play free, not constantly responding to directions from the bench. Everyone could see how much players (like Spearman) improved during last season.

Seems to me the questions/accusations about playing fewer consecutive minutes and having frequent substitutions were well answered last season--and certainly didn't prevent us from accumulating top recruiting and transfer classes! And when CKC recruits players, it's always with the understanding you're expected to come in and play immediately.

So that's why I'm wondering what the new negative recruiting logic could be. I don't see anything on the court or during games that could be spun as negative. But I still have the feeling that's what's happening out there this recruiting season.

Hard to tell. Is there a game tonight? Tomorrow?

 

[stllvf]

consider just this season and the recruitment -negative impact- re the incident involving a LV player. It doesn't take imagination on how that situation played into other coaches trying to influence recruits.

and to be fair LSU has had more than its share of player drama stories circulating, SC and not playing younger players, coaches' verbal and physical abuse gets headlines .

Personally, I (just me) can only wonder how a young junior in HS being vetted with intense recruiting techniques can decide on a college; a program, a coach etc aafter months, really years, of involvement with multiple schools and coaches.

NOTE: I left out the importance of the influence of expert fans on top ten board boards