Navy Shuler coming home.

MurphyVol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
6,464
Likes
11,919
I’m not trying to hate on our team or anything they had a good year. But we only scored 13 vs Penn State with Heath freaking Shuler at QB also should have beaten Florida. We underachieved a little that year
I think Fulmer learned a good lesson that bowl game. The team seemed to take a very lackadaisical approach, almost like it was a "reward" game. I kept seeing the team on the news taking tours, going to amusement parks etc.

Joe Pa had his boys ready and they really trounced us.

Phil won 4 of his next 5 bowls after that beatdown.
 
Likes: DuckInAPen

BJSforVols

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
4,580
Likes
1,704
Manning, Clausen, Bray, and Dobbs were all better and Holloway and Ainge were up there as well
No. Not even close. You could argue Tony Robinson maybe and possibly Jimmy Streater. Clausen was very good but not on Shuler's level. Dobbs was good but no where close to Shuler. Bray is not even worth mentioning. Andy Kelly was a better QB at TN than Ainge. Ainge was not bad but not worth even being discussed when talking about the top 5.

Manning, Shuler, and then Robinson are the top 3 IMO. I'm not old enough to have seen Streater play though. Many older than me would put him in that list as well.
 
Likes: DuckInAPen

BJSforVols

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
4,580
Likes
1,704
I get that they played in different offenses, but a guy wins the Heisman and out rushes you by 2000+ yards....well maybe we use the phrase "a poor man's" differently.
I'd say Tebow's arm compared to Shuler is part of the "poor" man status. You have to understand the game when Shuler played versus Tebow as well. It was a defensive minded game back then. Put a score or two on the board, play field position, and win with defense. Heath Shuler in the FL offense Tebow played puts up a total different stat line than what you see from Shuler at TN in the early 90s.
 

BJSforVols

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
4,580
Likes
1,704
Tony Robinson was a better athlete than Heath. T-Rob was a freak of nature.. Manning was the Best QB to ever come through the system though.
Yes, he was a better athelete but not a better QB. Shuler was a better QB and not far behind Robinson as an athlete. Robinson just made plays out of his athleticism. Shuler made plays out of his athleticism as well as as a QB.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
13
Likes
5
I've had a couple chances to have conversations with Heath (no we're not friends, it's unlikely he'd even remember my name).

He made no bones about it, he stunk it up in Washington and he struggled to do what Turner wanted him to do.

His thing was, he didn't understand why the Skins even wanted him. Turner was adamant he never leave the pocket, never extend a play, everything was timing, etc. He said a couple times in practice his protection broke down, he scrambled a bit and threw a touchdown...and Turner yelled at him and made them run the play over. He'd rather him throw it away than break the pocket and make a play.

People say "he should have come back" and maybe that's true but who knows. The next year Kerry Collins and Steve McNair were high picks. The year Shuler opted to go was a weak year for QBs in the draft.

I think a lot of people discredit Heath because:

He hurt their feelings by not coming back his Sr year (but I contend that if Colquitt stayed heathy we only lose 1 game that year)

He was a bust in the NFL. So was Tebow and countless others. The logic is weird... was Pat Ryan a better college QB than Tebow because he was able to stay on the Jets roster for a decade plus at a low salary?

And lastly...well I won't open that can of worms here.

One thing he did say is that when the Raiders picked him up in 1999, he felt so comfortable in Gruden's system. He said he finally felt "at home" in that type of offense and loved it. No, he wouldn't have beaten out Rich Gannon, but he certainly could have made the roster and extended his career. Who knows what could have happened, but he was tackled in a pre-season game and dislocated/tore tendons on every toe on one foot. I saw him years later (guessing it was 2-3 years) and he still walked with a noticeable limp at that time.
It was tough to watch. Turner’s inability to adjust to his talent was ridiculous. With the right OC, Shuler could’ve had a long successful NFL career. A Greg Roman, Ravens type offense, with his arm, would have been fun to watch. Instead, Turner wanted statues in the pocket like Phillip Rivers.
 
Likes: BJSforVols

Rickyvol77

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Messages
16,708
Likes
21,469
No. Not even close. You could argue Tony Robinson maybe and possibly Jimmy Streater. Clausen was very good but not on Shuler's level. Dobbs was good but no where close to Shuler. Bray is not even worth mentioning. Andy Kelly was a better QB at TN than Ainge. Ainge was not bad but not worth even being discussed when talking about the top 5.

Manning, Shuler, and then Robinson are the top 3 IMO. I'm not old enough to have seen Streater play though. Many older than me would put him in that list as well.
Bray would’ve led every UT QB stat in history with one more season. Streater? Jesus this when people think with their hearts and nostalgia instead of actual facts and stats. This is how idiots think Larry Seviers is better than Carl Pickens. 😂😂
Clausen was better than Shuler except as a rusher. Had more actual big wins. Better stats. Better leader. And to say Kelly was better than Ainge shows you need to review the stats again
 

Volizona

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
485
Likes
663
Good list. So that puts HS in your top 5 questionably. 😉 I'd put him at 2 w the next 3 close behind.

Shuler is likely the most physically talented QB we have ever had. In terms of performance I think he still cracks the top 5 but I can see others ahead of him. Had he stayed in 94 his legacy would have been cemented. That was a very talented team that had to break in 2 freshman QBs. HS only had 2 full seasons.
 
Likes: BJSforVols

Volizona

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
485
Likes
663
I think comparing Shuler to someone like Bray is a tough comparison.

Shuler had 500 attempts in his career, Bray had 450 attempts in a season.

Both had a similar QBR, y/a. Shuler had a better comp% and better TD to INT ratio.

They played in different systems and the game changed. Shulers teams were more run oriented and he could run himself. Shuler was a better athlete too.
 
Likes: BJSforVols

Volizona

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
485
Likes
663
Our schedule was weak. Louisville at 9-3 had the best record of any team we beat
We HAD Bama beat that year and they were one year past a Natty. Think we played Florida very close in the swamp too. We beat Georgia and just destroyed everyone else. Think we were a top 6 team that year before the meltdown vs Penn State.
 
Likes: BJSforVols

VolsSince78

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Messages
661
Likes
1,929
Bray would’ve led every UT QB stat in history with one more season. Streater? Jesus this when people think with their hearts and nostalgia instead of actual facts and stats. This is how idiots think Larry Seviers is better than Carl Pickens. 😂😂
Clausen was better than Shuler except as a rusher. Had more actual big wins. Better stats. Better leader. And to say Kelly was better than Ainge shows you need to review the stats again
Shuler’s QB rating at UT was considerably better than Clausen’s. This despite Clausen having Stallworth, Kelley Washington, and Witten to throw to simultaneously.

Clausen should have had more “big wins” than Shuler. He started 44 games vs 24 games for Shuler. Their W/L % was virtually identical, both at 77%.

Shuler ran for 15 TDs, and ran over UGA and UF defenders to help win big games. (Too bad RPO offense wasn’t developed in 1992-93.)

Clausen a better leader than Shuler? Shuler’s teammates loved him. NFL scouts really liked Shuler’s leadership traits as well. Clausen wasn’t drafted.

I LOVED Clausen’s contributions at UT. I just feel the need to pitch for Shuler in comparison. And we know how NFL scouts and Heisman voters compared the two.
 

swampfoxfan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2017
Messages
1,978
Likes
2,486
I had a autographed Heath shuler framed picture of him diving into the end zone against Louisville in 1993. I was a big fan of his as a kid even got a Redskin game jersey of his well that didn’t work out too well but Heath was a dynamic QB for us he should’ve stayed his senior year though. The 90’s were so good to us with great QBs we had Andy Kelley then Shuler then Manning and then Tee bringing home the national championship.
I really miss those days!
 

MurphyVol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
6,464
Likes
11,919
When I think of "bests" like best QB, I try to think in terms of equality. Everyone has different ideas of "best" and that's why it's so subjective.

Saying Bray is better than Shuler when he had twice the attempts and never had a winning season? That would be hard for me to wrap my head around.

NFL performance? To me that means little regarding how good they were for the Vols.

I think all things being equal- same WRs, same staff, same O line, etc... Manning , Shuler and Dobbs would be head and shoulders above everyone else.

In fact, if used properly we might be talking about Dobbs 1 and Manning 1a.

Clearly Peyton was built for the NFL, but guys like Dobbs and Tebow are built for the college game (unlike the NFL, linebackers aren't as fast as some receivers).

What was exciting about Shuler is he brought our offense a step toward modern times.

He was the first Vol QB of my lifetime that took care of the football.

If you go back and look at the Francis/Robinson/Cockrell/Kelly stats, they usually threw the same number of picks as TDs. People say "well that's part of the game, it was a different era, DBs had more freedom, etc" and while that's all true, if you go back as far as 1985, you had Kerwin Bell at UF throwing 25 TDs vs 8 INTs. I used to swear that Kelly was colorblind.

When Heath came along and had 25 TDs, 8 INTs, 8+ YPA and a 65% comp percentage I was excited to finally have some competence at the QB position. Pretty stellar numbers for a roster that had Garner, Stewart, Mose and Jay Graham in the RB stable.

With Heath's arm, it would have been interesting to see what Pickens and he looked like together. But they were just a year or two from overlapping.
 
Likes: VolsSince78

Rickyvol77

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Messages
16,708
Likes
21,469
Shuler’s QB rating at UT was considerably better than Clausen’s. This despite Clausen having Stallworth, Kelley Washington, and Witten to throw to simultaneously.

Clausen should have had more “big wins” than Shuler. He started 44 games vs 24 games for Shuler. Their W/L % was virtually identical, both at 77%.

Shuler ran for 15 TDs, and ran over UGA and UF defenders to help win big games. (Too bad RPO offense wasn’t developed in 1992-93.)

Clausen a better leader than Shuler? Shuler’s teammates loved him. NFL scouts really liked Shuler’s leadership traits as well. Clausen wasn’t drafted.

I LOVED Clausen’s contributions at UT. I just feel the need to pitch for Shuler in comparison. And we know how NFL scouts and Heisman voters compared the two.
Except for rushing TDs which was Shuler’s best attribute even if came against a very weak schedule compared to other UT greats, his stats weren’t that different from even Crompton or JG. Shuler was a good QB but he in no way was the 2nd best QB here not even close. He was an athlete who couldn’t read defenses well look at his drop off vs any team with a pulse. He beat Florida and UGA but that was it and if he had stayed one more year maybe he would’ve been better but he made the bad choice to go pro and it proved to be a bust disaster.
 

VN Store




Top