Name, Image, Likeness (NIL) Lady Vols Basketball

#1

stllvf

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#1
BACKGROUND BEFORE THE QUESTION RE WOMEN'S BASKETBALL “We’re a professional sport (football,” Lane Kifflin said , “and they are professional players.”

the sporting news article continues
Lane Kiffin took a very different tack than the one many of his peers have chosen on the ever-shifting state of college athletics. Rather than complaining about unfairness or corruption and hurling thinly veiled accusations at his opponents, he’s taking it all in with open arms and a full acceptance of reality — which is looking more and more like the only way left to survive in the sport.

In the SI interview, he openly affirms that players should be paid, and while the presence of collectives is questionable to just about everyone involved in the sport, he refuses to blame the players themselves for it. If the money’s available to them, particularly if they come from a financially unstable background, income would obviously be a major factor in their college decision — and he’s willing not to look down on them for it. It’s all met with acceptance.

Knowing the NCAA, he’s right — it will take ages to make any sort of change. He’s not pulling any punches on the reality of NIL. He knows that players are being paid to come in, and that there will be plenty of kinks in the system that will have to be worked out, and he also said he thinks that the gap in on-field performance will widen, at least temporarily, for the top schools. But at the same time, he knows that NIL isn’t going anywhere fast, and he’s dealing with it — quite frankly, a refreshing respite from the complainers,


Many articles have been written speculating the impact on primarily football.

This thread is open to those of us who would like to Speculate on our Lady Vols and NIL. With one of few women's teams with name recognition and a logo that is recognized (even tho dated in the opinion of several noted board experts on everything) ; and UTN thanks to legislative support is one of the leaders re NIL.

The issue as Kiffin noted in his article it is not fact no value in complaining accept the full reality.

Personally, I am interested in the thoughts of some boarders whom I respect for their knowlege and professionalism and sometimes don't agree with.
 
#2

Raebo

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#2
For me it is becoming a lot like MLB (and other pro sports). At one time (yes I am old) I was foolish and thought MLB players had a lot of allegiance to their team but I was fine with free agency since I thought players should get paid more. With so many players now basically going to the highest bidder I realize they have VERY little allegiance to the “team” but have some allegiance to their teammates but most of their allegiance is to the big bucks. I think college sports-football, men and women basketball is rapidly transitioning to that mindset (at least at the major schools).

Coach Kellie has stated the number 1 question recruits have is about NIL. That indicates to me that in general their number 1 allegiance is to the money. If I was in their situation I would probably feel the same way. Just like any job offer there are other considerations such as location, how does the family feel about it, etc.. If they attend 1 school for 4 years they will probably acquire some degree of allegiance to the school.

Just like MLB I am a fan of a team/school and I respect what the players did while at my team but my allegiance to the players is down since I feel like they are becoming mercenaries, especially with the transfer portal playing a role along with the NIL.

Just my feeling.
 
#3

glv98

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#3
My wish, probably naive af, is that NIL be separated from recruiting. Deals only made after a recruit is enrolled. Recruits can still consider what deals current players are getting in making their decision, but NIL should not be used as direct monetary enticement to recruiting IMO.

Of course at this point I'm happy if the Ladies get anything at all. Thrilled for their shirtzees or whtever. They're on a whole different planet than that new quarterback the Vols just recruited/bought.
 
#4
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#4
My wish, probably naive af, is that NIL be separated from recruiting. Deals only made after a recruit is enrolled. Recruits can still consider what deals current players are getting in making their decision, but NIL should not be used as direct monetary enticement to recruiting IMO.

Of course at this point I'm happy if the Ladies get anything at all. Thrilled for their shirtzees or whtever. They're on a whole different planet than that new quarterback the Vols just recruited/bought.
Will be interesting to see what happens when these players aren't as good as advertised...
 
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#5

Twinsbornoncampus

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#5
Will be interesting to see what happens when these players aren't as good as advertised...
I believe that there should be no restrictions since there are none for coaches. It will be impossible to police it. To restrict movement make the contracts binding with a buyout clause. Each athlete signs for what they agree with or go somewhere else. Free market conditions will create it own process subject to contractual law.
 
#6

#1LVLS MAN 4 LIFE

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#6
I have always commented on NIL's from the stand point of how it would affect the relationship between the universities, coaches, athletes, locker room and team chemistry, but I do think there is something to be said about financial compensation. I competed in an era that if you ordered a sandwich while staying at a hotel it was a NCAA violation, or if "uncle Jim" gave you a few bucks so you can buy something to eat because the student center was closed your school could be facing probation for rules violations. There will be many who say the athletes are getting a free education, that's true, but in reality not true. That free education comes at the cost of your talents, your commitment, risks to your physical, psychological, and emotional health while you and your teammates produce Billions of dollars in sports entertainment value without compensation. In any other industry this structure would be highly suspect as the opportunity for a "free" education is nowhere near the monetary, branding, notoriety value that colleges and universities receive from the value produced by young student athletes. Yes, there are young ladies who want to come and play for Tennessee because this is where Tamika Catchings, Chamiqua Holdsclaw, Kelly Jolly Haper, or the fact that Pat Summitt coached here. But we would all be naïve to think that money dose not matter, it truly does. If as a young athlete your coming from a situation where you don't know if the lights are going to be on from one month to the next, or when your going to eat a real meal or go without so another sibling can eat, what young person, let a lone athlete, is going to turn down a lucrative NIL opportunity? From this vantage point student athletes should be paid, but make sure your provide the same opportunity to the regular student who represents the college or university as well. The question now, is how to bring order to the current wild wild west of the NIL world.
 
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#7

lvocd

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#7
I’m normally full of words and opinions about everything, and I’m sure that I bore the socks off a lot of people here with them.

But on this topic, I’m not sure I have my head wrapped around this emerging phenomenon well enough to say much yet.

I have already either purchased myself, or been gifted with, nearly every shirzee/NIL-related shirt Orange Mountain Designs has offered, so I clearly support the right of players earning money off their own identity.

But outside of t-shirts and autographs, I haven’t really spent time thinking about the issue because I am sure it would be overwhelming to dive deeper.

It’s all so complicated, and probably will become more so before it’s eventually all ironed out.
 
#8

lvocd

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#8
I will say this, as it is about as basic a solution as anyone with even a handful of active brain cells could suggest: Perhaps there could be a system put in place which places a maximum dollar amount per year for each student-athlete, beginning with a modest amount in year one and increasing the limit each year to max out in their senior year.

Just a thought. Honestly, I can't think of anything right now that's NOT going to require many extra staff members working 24/7 trying to monitor for compliance.
 
#9
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#9
What the courts have essentially said is that there is only professional athletics. Now its for the NCAA or conferences to bring in their version of the salary cap.
 
#10

madtownvol

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#10
For me it is becoming a lot like MLB (and other pro sports). At one time (yes I am old) I was foolish and thought MLB players had a lot of allegiance to their team but I was fine with free agency since I thought players should get paid more. With so many players now basically going to the highest bidder I realize they have VERY little allegiance to the “team” but have some allegiance to their teammates but most of their allegiance is to the big bucks. I think college sports-football, men and women basketball is rapidly transitioning to that mindset (at least at the major schools).

Coach Kellie has stated the number 1 question recruits have is about NIL. That indicates to me that in general their number 1 allegiance is to the money. If I was in their situation I would probably feel the same way. Just like any job offer there are other considerations such as location, how does the family feel about it, etc.. If they attend 1 school for 4 years they will probably acquire some degree of allegiance to the school.

Just like MLB I am a fan of a team/school and I respect what the players did while at my team but my allegiance to the players is down since I feel like they are becoming mercenaries, especially with the transfer portal playing a role along with the NIL.

Just my feeling.

Back in the days before free agency, "the loyalty to the team" was a narrative that owners used to having almost complete control over a player's career. They really were property owned by the team until the team decided to let them go. And all were paid well below their market value. The NCAA similarly huge amounts of money for March madness and the football playoff and it promotes the heck out of their star players. NIL are saving the NCAA from tougher demands for revenue sharing, via athlete salaries. Now the game, as it stands, is hey kids you can earn some extra cash off your name and image just keep your hands out of till.

Rich alumni have bought star athletes for decades. The NCAA does an occasional investigation but that is kabuki theater to give the appearance of integrity. The NIL is just making the realities of recruiting more transparent (for football and men's basketball) and letting other sports, like women's b-basketball players get into the $ game. When I hear Nick Saban crying about NIL, I hear the sound of someone who is very worried that his under-the-table competitive advantage is being taken away. Jimbo Fisher strongly hinted at that illicit reality in his clapback to Saban and its interesting that Saban almost immediately back pedaled.
 
#11

stllvf

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#11
A few women Gymnasts, I believe 4 from UCLA and several from SEC schools are well funded prior to NIL and so remain, obviously related to Olympics and following. Don't know how or why they were 'allowed" but who cares now.

Madtownvol and others - do you believe that Saban - under the table funding - at some lesser lever has existed in women's sports particularly basketball?

and Yes or No do you expect that NIL will impact recruiting for any of the current top 15 universities? My expectation is that several new colleges will suddenly recruit better. Oral Roberts was an example some time back in men's basketball.
 
#12

madtownvol

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#12
A few women Gymnasts, I believe 4 from UCLA and several from SEC schools are well funded prior to NIL and so remain, obviously related to Olympics and following. Don't know how or why they were 'allowed" but who cares now.

Madtownvol and others - do you believe that Saban - under the table funding - at some lesser lever has existed in women's sports particularly basketball?

and Yes or No do you expect that NIL will impact recruiting for any of the current top 15 universities? My expectation is that several new colleges will suddenly recruit better. Oral Roberts was an example some time back in men's basketball.
Yes, I do think it will shake recruiting up. We are seeing signs of that happening now.

On the women's side, you don't tend to have the rich alumni will to be $ for a top team as per the case in football and men's b-basketball. I am sure there have been some cases but I doubt it has been widespread.
 
#13

Twinsbornoncampus

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#13
I will say this, as it is about as basic a solution as anyone with even a handful of active brain cells could suggest: Perhaps there could be a system put in place which places a maximum dollar amount per year for each student-athlete, beginning with a modest amount in year one and increasing the limit each year to max out in their senior year.

Just a thought. Honestly, I can't think of anything right now that's NOT going to require many extra staff members working 24/7 trying to monitor for compliance.
That would be price fixing which is illegal. Why don’t we just give the players what they agreed to. If there is no agreement then the player and the school moves on. I pretty sure that is the way it’s done. To require an exception to established law is unnecessary. Since the powers that be does not want to label players as employees there should be insurance available as well as vesting requirements as well otherwise your players will move from team to team depending on the money just like coaches. Allow them to work study at a much higher rate LOL.
 
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#14

Twinsbornoncampus

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#14
For me it is becoming a lot like MLB (and other pro sports). At one time (yes I am old) I was foolish and thought MLB players had a lot of allegiance to their team but I was fine with free agency since I thought players should get paid more. With so many players now basically going to the highest bidder I realize they have VERY little allegiance to the “team” but have some allegiance to their teammates but most of their allegiance is to the big bucks. I think college sports-football, men and women basketball is rapidly transitioning to that mindset (at least at the major schools).

Coach Kellie has stated the number 1 question recruits have is about NIL. That indicates to me that in general their number 1 allegiance is to the money. If I was in their situation I would probably feel the same way. Just like any job offer there are other considerations such as location, how does the family feel about it, etc.. If they attend 1 school for 4 years they will probably acquire some degree of allegiance to the school.

Just like MLB I am a fan of a team/school and I respect what the players did while at my team but my allegiance to the players is down since I feel like they are becoming mercenaries, especially with the transfer portal playing a role along with the NIL.

Just my feeling.


If a player commits to school gets hurt and can never play again. That player now has lost, how can they be made whole. I am so happy that payments to players can now be taxed. That player now can create value for themselves. The changes will continue and recruits will soon hire agents on a contingency basis to get what they deserve. With the agents will come more opportunities for under table deals this will bring in lawyers, courts, judges, lies, defamation suits it will just go on and on because all of the institutions will try to get their share of these kid’s money. Funny how the money that was being mad by NCAA football never got this much attention but now that has changed, that is all I hear. I applaud UT for not allowing that good ole boy attitude to once again derail our team and brand.
 
#15

Remy

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#15
Arguing against NIL at this point is like arguing balls and strikes with an umpire. Your entitled to your opinion but it doesn't count for anything. I'm just happy to see from my distant non-insiders view that appears UT is taking advantage of what reality is rather than whining and harping about the old days or what we'd rather see instead. If NIL is in full force I expect UT supporters to be some of the best in the country at being competitive using it.
 
#16

madtownvol

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#16
That would be price fixing which is illegal. Why don’t we just give the players what they agreed to. If there is no agreement then the player and the school moves on. I pretty sure that is the way it’s done. To require an exception to established law is unnecessary. Since the powers that be does not want to label players as employees there should be insurance available as well as vesting requirements as well otherwise your players will move from team to team depending on the money just like coaches. Allow them to work study at a much higher rate LOL.
Not quite. Price fixing falls under anti-trust laws and addresses situations where two competitors conspire to set prices in a market to avoid competition. If I am McDonalds and I agree with BK that we won't sell sandwiches for anything less that $5 that is price fixing. The NCAA puts caps on all kinds of things-- the amount that can be spent on athlete meals when traveling. But NIL are tricky because it is not specifically between the University and the athlete but other actors, businesses. buyers etc. who wish to license the athletes NIL for some purpose, ranging from ad appearance to autographed merchandise.

So, NCAA regulations can trigger lawsuits since they would be trying to control the ability of athletes to earn $ on their NILs, which the Supreme Court gave them the right to do.

As it stands, the NCAA is placing restrictions on how boosters or funding collectives operate:

Member schools received new guidelines Monday saying that boosters or collectives who contact recruits or sign athletes to contracts that are contingent upon a player's attendance at a particular school are breaking NCAA rules
So, the NCAA has largely given up any hope of placing limits on how much $ an athlete through NIL but they are trying to eliminate the "perception" of schools buying athletes via the above restriction. We need to remember that NIL has only been in place a year (and this recruiting class is the first one to be impacted by it) so it will take a while for some stable status quo to be established (if that ever happens).

More info here: NCAA issues 'reasonable' NIL booster guidelines
 
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#18

Twinsbornoncampus

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#18
Not quite. Price fixing falls under anti-trust laws and addresses situations where two competitors conspire to set prices in a market to avoid competition. If I am McDonalds and I agree with BK that we won't sell sandwiches for anything less that $5 that is price fixing. The NCAA puts caps on all kinds of things-- the amount that can be spent on athlete meals when traveling. But NIL are tricky because it is not specifically between the University and the athlete but other actors, businesses. buyers etc. who wish to license the athletes NIL for some purpose, ranging from ad appearance to autographed merchandise.

So, NCAA regulations can trigger lawsuits since they would be trying to control the ability of athletes to earn $ on their NILs, which the Supreme Court gave them the right to do.

As it stands, the NCAA is placing restrictions on how boosters or funding collectives operate:



So, the NCAA has largely given up any hope of placing limits on how much $ an athlete through NIL but they are trying to eliminate the "perception" of schools buying athletes via the above restriction. We need to remember that NIL has only been in place a year (and this recruiting class is the first one to be impacted by it) so it will take a while for some stable status quo to be established (if that ever happens).

More info here: NCAA issues 'reasonable' NIL booster guidelines
Not quite. Price fixing falls under anti-trust laws and addresses situations where two competitors conspire to set prices in a market to avoid competition. If I am McDonalds and I agree with BK that we won't sell sandwiches for anything less that $5 that is price fixing. The NCAA puts caps on all kinds of things-- the amount that can be spent on athlete meals when traveling. But NIL are tricky because it is not specifically between the University and the athlete but other actors, businesses. buyers etc. who wish to license the athletes NIL for some purpose, ranging from ad appearance to autographed merchandise.

So, NCAA regulations can trigger lawsuits since they would be trying to control the ability of athletes to earn $ on their NILs, which the Supreme Court gave them the right to do.

As it stands, the NCAA is placing restrictions on how boosters or funding collectives operate:



So, the NCAA has largely given up any hope of placing limits on how much $ an athlete through NIL but they are trying to eliminate the "perception" of schools buying athletes via the above restriction. We need to remember that NIL has only been in place a year (and this recruiting class is the first one to be impacted by it) so it will take a while for some stable status quo to be established (if that ever happens).

More info here: NCAA issues 'reasonable' NIL booster guidelines
Clearly I don’t have a clue but, who sets the salary cap? The caps purpose will be to set an even floor for bcs teams and maintain fairness. Just another way to control spending some might say. I know it’s not here just give it time.
 
#19

37620VOL

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#19
NIL strategy is going to be big. One possibility would to structure it so that everyone on the roster gets a base amount. So level 1 could be a collective of businesses pay each player $x to do a list of promotional activities. Level 2 could be an "eat what you kill" structure so that each player can create their own NIL deals within the rules and as the market allows. Level 3 would be proactive deals targeting elite recruits through Spire prior to signing an LOI. I think you would want enough cash to real in 2 elite recruits in every class with at least WNBA level $ (but probably more) continuing each year through graduation.
 
#20

stllvf

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#20
All the opinion articles focus football, men's basketball and probably baseball in that order.

Focusing specifically on women's minor sports where scholarships are frequently less than 100%. Were I Oklahoma women softball I would expect funds have been adequately allocated, LSU women track - sprints; other examples of the best for many years. however UTn has several teams that are competitive nationally and I wonder the outside funds available for such athletes.
hypothetically you offer a top 20 HS volleyball player a 1/2 scholarship and what is the coach's answer provided to that player re NIL? While I ask this to board readers I feel confident the UT coaches have a real reality answer for 2022.

You know where this is leading I hope, the deep pockets of our board regulars we should incorporate and with the available NIL surplus funding decide to support selected UT women's athletes. after we acquire the $75 k minimum we can Zoom and decide who to support. And we all know that one of our own was in the collection of bad debts so our contributions will be safe.
 
#21

NeedOrange

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#21
Currently the greatest support for athletes getting NIL deals comes in helping the individual develop their own brand.. There is one institution that athletes in every sport are provided with professional help in developing branding, professional editors and videographers, financial and contractual advice. They also make connections with corporations that might have an interest in the athlete. This is done through a third party not for profit corporation. Also geography is coming into play. Schools located in some locations have greater availability to connect athletes with NIL opportunities. For instance, you may have noticed an uptick in recruiting in southern California.
 
#22

EarlVolFan

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#22
So time for speculation has ended. Orange Mountain Designs has formed a NIL collective named after the old 'Lady Vol Boost-Her Club'.

Let's get behind Lady Vol Basketball and show our support for these exceptional players!

 
#25

VA_VOLFAN

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#25
I'm assuming she is the only one not sponsored for now is because of the legal trouble she got into a few months ago
I saw something on twitter. I guess I get it but hopefully something is in the works. Jordy made a mistake (although in HS) she learned and we all love her! I wanna support BK so if she does get signed i will support her (and the rest of the ladies of course).
 

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