My One Big Offensive Critique

#1
NorthDallas40

NorthDallas40

Displaced Hillbilly
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#1
Yes I'm enjoying the win. Yes #WGWTFA again this Saturday. Yes I'm confident going forward.

But.

We simply MUST come up with a short yardage/short field package and employ it as needed. The first half goal line stand by FLA exposed this. You can't take the ball 3 yards deep in the back field and hand it to a flat footed RB and have sustained success against SEC defenses.

Get Dobbs under center and have him sneak it, misdirect/bootleg/play action it or give it to Hurd with a lead blocker and a head of steam. That's my thoughts on it anyway. And I'm sure it's come up in the past three days just didn't see it.
 
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#2
#2
The play call was good but Croom dropped it. Again I am not sure why they didnt run off to left and have Dobbs run it to end zone which has worked very well for them in the past. I am guessing it had to do with look FL was showing.
 
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#4
#4
Seriously tho. I see where OP is coming from. We really seem hamstrung when our offense features this ...

1. Hurd behind Dobbs
2. TE & 3 wides or 2 TE
3. The Defense stacking the box with 7-8
4. We seem incapable of an audible
5. Slow developing handoff to Hurd off-guard, with maybe a pulling TE or not.

... we started the opening play with it, and I'll guess ran 7-8 more times with > 2 yards success maybe once. Waiting on the awesome O plays vid to come out.

My questions are this ...
#1 Why run this basic play as the apparent "starting point" of our offense? EVERY single team we've played has stuffed it more often than not. The obvious BeatTN gameplan is "stack the box" and make Dobbs win with his arm.
#2 When a guy with a home business who works 70 hours per week can stare at a TV screen and see the defense stacked in licking their chops ... then what are our coaches / QB seeing? A variety of audibles seem possible in this situation IMO. Dobbs rarely does and we run right into it over and over.
#3 Our offense comes alive in a big way when we are keeping defenses guessing. Fake jet sweep, real jet sweep, two backs and one goes in motion, fake to RB and QB run or throw, shovel pass, reverse, fake reverse, play action etc. Florida's athletic D seemed sooo flat footed when we began to dial that up in the 2nd half. Not that the 1st 1/2 was horrible (except scoring / RZ), but it seemed more predictable.
#4 Why has "pace and space" been put on the back burner? I realize it's situational, TV timeouts hamper, and fake injuries hamper it. But, this offense starts thriving when it has multiple options in the run game and goes fast in places.

I'm interested in doing a count / stats on the Hurd off guard play from last week. They stuffed it twice on the GL (2yl?) when we should have had an easy 7. Not sure what they are expecting our OL to accomplish on that play vs that defense.

#2
 
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#5
#5
I would like to see Kamara lines up behind Hurd in an I-formation. You have the dive to Hurd or a fake dive pitch to Kamara. Or you have the fake dive option run with Dobbs with a pitch option to Kamara. Or what do you know another option. A fake dive pull option look with a pass option for Hurd sneaking out after the dive or a crossing wide reciever or TE.
 
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#6
#6
Yes to be clear it's more like the post just above. (Well 2 above now but just above is the kind of thinking I'm doing also) I'm not referring to just the formation (while I am really against taking the ball deep into the back field when you start from the 1) but IF we do line up with Dobbs under center it's limited with what we've done thus far and yes we don't seem to do any check offs I don't think it's hard to scheme against us on that.

Shotgun works well for us mostly. But a short field comes with other needs I think is all
 
#7
#7
livefaith said:
Seriously tho. I see where OP is coming from. We really seem hamstrung when our offense features this ...

1. Hurd behind Dobbs
2. TE & 3 wides or 2 TE
3. The Defense stacking the box with 7-8
4. We seem incapable of an audible
5. Slow developing handoff to Hurd off-guard, with maybe a pulling TE or not.

... we started the opening play with it, and I'll guess ran 7-8 more times with > 2 yards success maybe once. Waiting on the awesome O plays vid to come out.

My questions are this ...
#1 Why run this basic play as the apparent "starting point" of our offense? EVERY single team we've played has stuffed it more often than not. The obvious BeatTN gameplan is "stack the box" and make Dobbs win with his arm.
#2 When a guy with a home business who works 70 hours per week can stare at a TV screen and see the defense stacked in licking their chops ... then what are our coaches / QB seeing? A variety of audibles seem possible in this situation IMO. Dobbs rarely does and we run right into it over and over.
#3 Our offense comes alive in a big way when we are keeping defenses guessing. Fake jet sweep, real jet sweep, two backs and one goes in motion, fake to RB and QB run or throw, shovel pass, reverse, fake reverse, play action etc. Florida's athletic D seemed sooo flat footed when we began to dial that up in the 2nd half. Not that the 1st 1/2 was horrible (except scoring / RZ), but it seemed more predictable.
#4 Why has "pace and space" been put on the back burner? I realize it's situational, TV timeouts hamper, and fake injuries hamper it. But, this offense starts thriving when it has multiple options in the run game and goes fast in places.

I'm interested in doing a count / stats on the Hurd off guard play from last week. They stuffed it twice on the GL (2yl?) when we should have had an easy 7. Not sure what they are expecting our OL to accomplish on that play vs that defense.

#2
Click to expand...


Just a thought but we, our coaches, want them to stack the box some. Even when teams stack the box on us we occasionally get big yards on the ground plus it opens up the entire field through the air. In every game this year we have went deep through the air and scored td's.

When you take the time to find out about what our scheme is meant to do, you wont be nearly as frustrated. There are places online to find that info if you're interested. I love the strategy part of the game. Maybe I'm more of an Dobbs-ish like fan though.
 
#8
#8
I wish we would use some of the formations from our playboy on NCAA 2014.

Seriously though, not idea why we don't bust out the triple option.
 
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#9
#9
I do agree..we need a short yardage package..maybe some old WISHBONE would work..or just line up all the big uglies on the line and run power under center...or a bootleg..IF PEYTON MANNING can run a bootleg we all know DOBBS can....
 
#10
#10
livefaith said:
Seriously tho. I see where OP is coming from. We really seem hamstrung when our offense features this ...

1. Hurd behind Dobbs
2. TE & 3 wides or 2 TE
3. The Defense stacking the box with 7-8
4. We seem incapable of an audible
5. Slow developing handoff to Hurd off-guard, with maybe a pulling TE or not.

... we started the opening play with it, and I'll guess ran 7-8 more times with > 2 yards success maybe once. Waiting on the awesome O plays vid to come out.

My questions are this ...
#1 Why run this basic play as the apparent "starting point" of our offense? EVERY single team we've played has stuffed it more often than not. The obvious BeatTN gameplan is "stack the box" and make Dobbs win with his arm.
#2 When a guy with a home business who works 70 hours per week can stare at a TV screen and see the defense stacked in licking their chops ... then what are our coaches / QB seeing? A variety of audibles seem possible in this situation IMO. Dobbs rarely does and we run right into it over and over.
#3 Our offense comes alive in a big way when we are keeping defenses guessing. Fake jet sweep, real jet sweep, two backs and one goes in motion, fake to RB and QB run or throw, shovel pass, reverse, fake reverse, play action etc. Florida's athletic D seemed sooo flat footed when we began to dial that up in the 2nd half. Not that the 1st 1/2 was horrible (except scoring / RZ), but it seemed more predictable.
#4 Why has "pace and space" been put on the back burner? I realize it's situational, TV timeouts hamper, and fake injuries hamper it. But, this offense starts thriving when it has multiple options in the run game and goes fast in places.

I'm interested in doing a count / stats on the Hurd off guard play from last week. They stuffed it twice on the GL (2yl?) when we should have had an easy 7. Not sure what they are expecting our OL to accomplish on that play vs that defense.

#2
Click to expand...

IMO if you can show and have success with that I back set w/ Hurd, and maybe a lead blocker, at least once early in the game in a less important short yardage situation the goal line options will be there. Convert or gash them with it once and you can all but guarantee they stack 8+ the next time which sets up the play action and begs for a Dobbs keeper on the boot.
 
#11
#11
The worst/most predictable play in our offense is when we run Hurd up the gut on second down. That play literally never works. It's like giving the defense a free down.
 
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#12
#12
NorthDallas40 said:
Yes I'm enjoying the win. Yes #WGWTFA again this Saturday. Yes I'm confident going forward.

But.

We simply MUST come up with a short yardage/short field package and employ it as needed. The first half goal line stand by FLA exposed this. You can't take the ball 3 yards deep in the back field and hand it to a flat footed RB and have sustained success against SEC defenses.

Get Dobbs under center and have him sneak it, misdirect/bootleg/play action it or give it to Hurd with a lead blocker and a head of steam. That's my thoughts on it anyway. And I'm sure it's come up in the past three days just didn't see it.
Click to expand...

the croom drop was what killed that. Dobbs is an excellent short yardage runner, as is Hurd.

i think the criticism i have is why do we still run hurd on sweeps?

other than that, the only real criticism i had for the offense was all the drops in the 1st half. i was actually impressed with the game plan over all.

and we got to see why in the 2nd half.
 
#14
#14
jakez4ut said:
the croom drop was what killed that. Dobbs is an excellent short yardage runner, as is Hurd.

i think the criticism i have is why do we still run hurd on sweeps?

other than that, the only real criticism i had for the offense was all the drops in the 1st half. i was actually impressed with the game plan over all.

and we got to see why in the 2nd half.
Click to expand...

Yeah I hear ya. The series I pointed to in my first post didn't fail due to scheme it failed due to execution. I agree too. And we are all obviously happy with the outcome as a whole.

It might just be an old man personal bias on my part. Don't turn the line to gain needlessly from 1 yard into 3 or 4. That's it. We just don't seem to have as deep a playbook for the 1 to 3 yard cases as we do the 3+ case to me is all.

At the end of the day, 4-0, and WGWTFA this Saturday in Athens.

Edit: for example on a punt return who else loses their damn mind and screams at the TV when the kick returner immediately turns and runs 5 yards back while he tries to get outside. I'm "that guy"
 
Last edited:
#15
#15
Under center or not, there are advantages and disadvantages. To me, the real issue is getting that push up front. If the line takes care of business, formation shouldn't be an issue.
 
#16
#16
NorthDallas40 said:
Yeah I hear ya. The series I pointed to in my first post didn't fail due to scheme it failed due to execution. I agree too. And we are all obviously happy with the outcome as a whole.

It might just be an old man personal bias on my part. Don't turn the line to gain needlessly from 1 yard into 3 or 4. That's it. We just don't seem to have as deep a playbook for the 1 to 3 yard cases as we do the 3+ case to me is all.

At the end of the day, 4-0, and WGWTFA this Saturday in Athens.

Edit: for example on a punt return who else loses their damn mind and screams at the TV when the kick returner immediately turns and runs 5 yards back while he tries to get outside. I'm "that guy"
Click to expand...

i think we all have been at one point or another...:eek:lol:

i think the play action we saw will benefit us going forward, and the run game has a cumulative affect, if you listen to the broadcast, you hear them talking about it as the 2nd half went on in to the 3th qtr, about FL's defense being gassed. so while last week i preached patience on the game plan, i did so, not expecting to have to be patient with the pass game (!!), but rather the run game to have that cumulative affect, which ultimately it did, albeit for different reasons than i originally thought.

that credit goes to the defense for continually getting off the field in the 2nd half and putting their defense back on it.

there is something to this "complimentary football" CBJ talk about ad nauseum.:p
 
#17
#17
IMO, Dobbs was under center more in the Florida game than any other this year.

Haven't reviewed any stats on that or anything.

But, they do seem to be hearing your concern.
 
#18
#18
Jax_Vol said:
IMO, Dobbs was under center more in the Florida game than any other this year.

Haven't reviewed any stats on that or anything.

But, they do seem to be hearing your concern.
Click to expand...

he was, and it even got a "well, what are they doing here?" from Gary when they lined up under center late in the 1st half....so yeah, it's uncommon for us, even if only done a hand full of times.
 
#20
#20
Running out of the I formation (for a zone blocking team) in short yardage without a fullback, most of the teams have the QB bring the ball to the back so he still gets it 3 deep reads the blocks and finds a hole. The problem comes when there is not crease to run in. This is the problem we are having, no hole. We need to win the battle up front. Last year we used a TE in motion as a blocking back gain an advantage or balance the number of blockers to the D. The offense we run gives us a lot of plays we can run, more than from an I formation. Forget running a triple option or wishbone as these take a lot of practice time and are high risk. Perhaps you could put it in for a bowl game. QB sneak no problem. Our inside zone should be working better.
 
#21
#21
I agree. Surely the coaches have some reason albeit not very clear to me. My thought is there is no possible way that running a QB sneak 4 times in a row from the 2 yard line doesn't score. Even if everyone and their grandpa knows its coming, it's still gonna end up as a TD.
 
#22
#22
livefaith said:
Seriously tho. I see where OP is coming from. We really seem hamstrung when our offense features this ...

1. Hurd behind Dobbs
2. TE & 3 wides or 2 TE
3. The Defense stacking the box with 7-8
4. We seem incapable of an audible
5. Slow developing handoff to Hurd off-guard, with maybe a pulling TE or not.

... we started the opening play with it, and I'll guess ran 7-8 more times with > 2 yards success maybe once. Waiting on the awesome O plays vid to come out.

My questions are this ...
#1 Why run this basic play as the apparent "starting point" of our offense? EVERY single team we've played has stuffed it more often than not. The obvious BeatTN gameplan is "stack the box" and make Dobbs win with his arm.
#2 When a guy with a home business who works 70 hours per week can stare at a TV screen and see the defense stacked in licking their chops ... then what are our coaches / QB seeing? A variety of audibles seem possible in this situation IMO. Dobbs rarely does and we run right into it over and over.
#3 Our offense comes alive in a big way when we are keeping defenses guessing. Fake jet sweep, real jet sweep, two backs and one goes in motion, fake to RB and QB run or throw, shovel pass, reverse, fake reverse, play action etc. Florida's athletic D seemed sooo flat footed when we began to dial that up in the 2nd half. Not that the 1st 1/2 was horrible (except scoring / RZ), but it seemed more predictable.
#4 Why has "pace and space" been put on the back burner? I realize it's situational, TV timeouts hamper, and fake injuries hamper it. But, this offense starts thriving when it has multiple options in the run game and goes fast in places.

I'm interested in doing a count / stats on the Hurd off guard play from last week. They stuffed it twice on the GL (2yl?) when we should have had an easy 7. Not sure what they are expecting our OL to accomplish on that play vs that defense.

#2
Click to expand...
I don't have a high football IQ and I'm not going to pretend I do. However, from the outside looking in, it seems like DeBord(and maybe even Shoop) approach their football games like games of chess. Although chess can technically be won in two moves, it is never achieved between two experienced players. Instead, a series of moves set the player up down the line for a win. The opponent, if inferior, falls for these moves. "Ahh, they must just be trying to get another pawn like all those times before." But then their opponent claims a knight. A Rook. A bishop. The Queen. Check. Check-mate. If the opening moves are done correctly and the opponent falls for it, victory is almost always imminent.

...or maybe not
 
#23
#23
cwbytruckers said:
I would like to see Kamara lines up behind Hurd in an I-formation. You have the dive to Hurd or a fake dive pitch to Kamara. Or you have the fake dive option run with Dobbs with a pitch option to Kamara. Or what do you know another option. A fake dive pull option look with a pass option for Hurd sneaking out after the dive or a crossing wide reciever or TE.
Click to expand...

All teams which run shotgun offenses tend to have some problems in short yardage situations. Putting a Qb under center seems to increase the chances of fumbled exchanges from center to QB, and the Oline is not use to firing off with straight ahead blocking which can cause problem with blitzing LBs. Saturday, there would not have a problem if the pass had not been dropped. When the plunge on the first play failed, the left guard was pushed back into the backfield and the play was stuffed. Both of those played failed because of execution, not because the QB was not under the center.
 
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