Muffett Speaks the Truth

Voltopia

9 wins and a bowl game.
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
3,829
Likes
8,427
Lobo
Sue Bird
Ashley how the hell battle
Renee Montgomery
Barbara Turner NBA Job
Diana the goat (greatest Offensive player of all time)
Tamika Williams
Swin Cash
This is why I laugh when people wave off the "ESPN benefits them" argument. For a lot of players, the most lucrative career path that keeps them involved with basketball splits one of two ways - either go into coaching and hope you succeed to such a degree that you become a reasonably well compensated coach, OR go into broadcasting and leverage your expertise to be an analyst or host and see how that goes. Now obviously, just being from an elite and recognizable program is one part of it (though again, if ESPN spends a lot of time repping your team, then they're helping you too), but having THE company that owns the broadcast rights to practically everything college sports be an hour down the road is of inestimable value. Tours, internships, building relationships with people in the industry. Muffet is right about this. The degree to which she's right can be debated, I'm sure, but there is a benefit. When you get caught arranging a tour for the most important recruit of the late 2000s, well ... do you think that's the only time? Who else got a tour? Who else got a callback because someone knows someone? I'm gonna guess they got smarter about it after being caught, but I'm sure it's not hard to find an arrangement that works.

And if you've got a lot former players running your content, and a lot of those relationships built up over time, and you're always doing special reports or following that one team, and giving them highlights for years and years, you don't think that coziness might run both ways? It could be sinister, or unintentional, (though I think it's probably somewhere in the middle), or even just a byproduct of ESPN's investment in building the brand. Who knows. But I think there's a benefit and think she's not off the mark in pointing it out.
 

Gilmore

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2019
Messages
193
Likes
685
Geno's own daughter commented
I believe this is an old blog post from when Pat retired or passed. Either way, I remember reading it, thinking it was a thoughtful tribute. This has nothing to do with the MM Geno silly feud, being fed by ESPN to get clicks. Grateful for our coaches who conduct themselves with class!
 

chuckiepoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
5,944
Likes
10,082
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
22
Likes
36
When you get caught arranging a tour for the most important recruit of the late 2000s,
I understand that the majority of the people on this message board have a complete and total vitriol against Geno and UConn. It comes with having passionate fan bases and heated rivalries. However, this argument used to disparage Geno is ridiculous and worn out. At the time anyone could have a free ESPN tour. The heinous crime that UConn committed was that an unknowing secretary made the call for Maya and she didn't do it for herself. Every Tenn fan has to know this by now. At this point it just seems like a totally childish argument. Find a actual or original reason to hate Geno - Hell - he gives you many. Bitter rivalries make college sports interesting and fun. However, some level of reality is equally important.

From an article on Pat's declining health. "This all goes back to 2006 when Tennessee fired off a 36-page report to the NCAA about the Huskies' alleged recruiting practices. They cited 11 different violations -- 10 of which the NCAA wadded up and tossed in the garbage as junk. The last one, the fact that someone on the UConn staff made a phone call to ESPN to set up a tour of the facility for then recruit Maya Moore, was labeled a "secondary" violation and no penalty was assessed. Free tours of ESPN are available to anyone who calls. In that report, Tennessee even accused Diana Taurasi and Sue Bird of being "recruiters" for the Huskies and that at the Naismith Awards in Atlanta in April 2006, Taurasi and Bird gave Moore a ride to the event. Those are accusations that weren't even based on fact, just hearsay, because Taurasi and Bird weren't in Atlanta at the time -- they were in Moscow playing in the European Championships. "If you are going to make allegations like that, you might want to make sure the people (you are accusing) are in the same place at the same time," Taurasi said at the time. "It's irresponsible to say something like that. It wasn't humanly possible."

BTW: Here is the "devil" discussing PS:
 
Likes: glv98

sisaq

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
3,160
Likes
4,098
I understand that the majority of the people on this message board have a complete and total vitriol against Geno and UConn. It comes with having passionate fan bases and heated rivalries. However, this argument used to disparage Geno is ridiculous and worn out. At the time anyone could have a free ESPN tour. The heinous crime that UConn committed was that an unknowing secretary made the call for Maya and she didn't do it for herself. Every Tenn fan has to know this by now. At this point it just seems like a totally childish argument. Find a actual or original reason to hate Geno - Hell - he gives you many. Bitter rivalries make college sports interesting and fun. However, some level of reality is equally important.

From an article on Pat's declining health. "This all goes back to 2006 when Tennessee fired off a 36-page report to the NCAA about the Huskies' alleged recruiting practices. They cited 11 different violations -- 10 of which the NCAA wadded up and tossed in the garbage as junk. The last one, the fact that someone on the UConn staff made a phone call to ESPN to set up a tour of the facility for then recruit Maya Moore, was labeled a "secondary" violation and no penalty was assessed. Free tours of ESPN are available to anyone who calls. In that report, Tennessee even accused Diana Taurasi and Sue Bird of being "recruiters" for the Huskies and that at the Naismith Awards in Atlanta in April 2006, Taurasi and Bird gave Moore a ride to the event. Those are accusations that weren't even based on fact, just hearsay, because Taurasi and Bird weren't in Atlanta at the time -- they were in Moscow playing in the European Championships. "If you are going to make allegations like that, you might want to make sure the people (you are accusing) are in the same place at the same time," Taurasi said at the time. "It's irresponsible to say something like that. It wasn't humanly possible."

BTW: Here is the "devil" discussing PS:
Ok. Anything else u wana make us believe?
 
Likes: Rickster
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
22
Likes
36
Ok. Anything else u wana make us believe?
One thing that we have learned in the political arena is that you cannot make someone change their views even in the face of complete and total evidence. Let me repeat, ANYONE could have had a free tour of ESPN. (actually, I believe to be more accurate, it was any communication major in college.) It is well documented. It is fact. It is researchable. Hang your hat on the argument if you wish - but it is verifiable and incontrovertible.
 
Likes: glv98

Lucy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2019
Messages
2,003
Likes
6,359
I understand that the majority of the people on this message board have a complete and total vitriol against Geno and UConn. It comes with having passionate fan bases and heated rivalries. However, this argument used to disparage Geno is ridiculous and worn out. At the time anyone could have a free ESPN tour. The heinous crime that UConn committed was that an unknowing secretary made the call for Maya and she didn't do it for herself. Every Tenn fan has to know this by now. At this point it just seems like a totally childish argument. Find a actual or original reason to hate Geno - Hell - he gives you many. Bitter rivalries make college sports interesting and fun. However, some level of reality is equally important.

From an article on Pat's declining health. "This all goes back to 2006 when Tennessee fired off a 36-page report to the NCAA about the Huskies' alleged recruiting practices. They cited 11 different violations -- 10 of which the NCAA wadded up and tossed in the garbage as junk. The last one, the fact that someone on the UConn staff made a phone call to ESPN to set up a tour of the facility for then recruit Maya Moore, was labeled a "secondary" violation and no penalty was assessed. Free tours of ESPN are available to anyone who calls. In that report, Tennessee even accused Diana Taurasi and Sue Bird of being "recruiters" for the Huskies and that at the Naismith Awards in Atlanta in April 2006, Taurasi and Bird gave Moore a ride to the event. Those are accusations that weren't even based on fact, just hearsay, because Taurasi and Bird weren't in Atlanta at the time -- they were in Moscow playing in the European Championships. "If you are going to make allegations like that, you might want to make sure the people (you are accusing) are in the same place at the same time," Taurasi said at the time. "It's irresponsible to say something like that. It wasn't humanly possible."

BTW: Here is the "devil" discussing PS:
Would you care to cite the article you are quoting from?
 

Bakers1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
108
Likes
247
One thing that we have learned in the political arena is that you cannot make someone change their views even in the face of complete and total evidence. Let me repeat, ANYONE could have had a free tour of ESPN. (actually, I believe to be more accurate, it was any communication major in college.) It is well documented. It is fact. It is researchable. Hang your hat on the argument if you wish - but it is verifiable and incontrovertible.
I think it's obvious Uconn has benefitted with ESPN's bias in many ways but in this case I'll just call it a secondary violation rather than bias..


Here are verifiable and incontrovertible facts! It was obviously a violation no matter the reason, . I think the problem with Uconn arranging the tour is - PERCEPTION-. Maya was a young teenager. She probably wasnt aware that ESPN gave free tours to anyone. If she wasn't aware and I doubt she was it could certainly be perceived as a benefit to the recruit....Any kid would be impressed with that connection. There's no doubt she met with important people including commentators etc...

You do agree at the end of the day it was a violation right? (FACTS) It really doesn't matter why..... what matters is it was wrong. It doesn't make it any less of a violation just because anyone could get a free tour RIGHT???????
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
22
Likes
36
Would you care to cite the article you are quoting from?
The NCAA defines a secondary violation as one that is inadvertent in nature or doesn’t represent a significant competitive advantage. Penalties are usually minor, and can include a letter in the school’s file.”

Maya Moore recruiting violation (describes secondary violation)

Tennessee football, Lady Vols commit minor recruiting violations (Tennessee self-reported just three minor NCAA violations during 2020, a downtick in violations compared to previous years. UT reported two by the women’s basketball program. Each was considered an NCAA Level III recruiting violation and resulted in minor institutional or SEC action and no additional penalties imposed by the NCAA.

UConn self-reports 17 minor NCAA violations (secondary violations are nothing, in most cases inadvertent)

ELSBERRY Tennessee coach Summitt’s comments an embarrassment (original article I quoted)

UConn, Moore cited for NCAA recruiting violation (second one to say free to public)

High time UConn Huskies and Tennessee Lady Vols resume game's greatest rivalry (sec news, all the Knoxville/Tennessee ones are behind paywalls, but I am sure they will also confirm ESPN was open to anyone (at the time).
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
22
Likes
36
You do agree at the end of the day it was a violation right? (FACTS) It really doesn't matter why..... what matters is it was wrong. It doesn't make it any less of a violation just because anyone could get a free tour RIGHT???????
The NCAA defines a secondary violation as one that is inadvertent in nature or doesn’t represent a significant competitive advantage. Penalties are usually minor, and can include a letter in the school’s file.” I stand by my statement that anyone who uses this argument that UConn is "cheating" or "favored" is overreaching and showing an unrealistic vitriol laser-focused hate not grounded in reality.

9 of the Most Absurd NCAA Violations in Recent Memory
 

Bakers1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
108
Likes
247
The NCAA defines a secondary violation as one that is inadvertent in nature or doesn’t represent a significant competitive advantage. Penalties are usually minor, and can include a letter in the school’s file.” I stand by my statement that anyone who uses this argument that UConn is "cheating" or "favored" is overreaching and showing an unrealistic vitriol laser-focused hate not grounded in reality.

9 of the Most Absurd NCAA Violations in Recent Memory
You're quote - The NCAA defines a secondary violation as one that is inadvertent in nature or doesn’t represent a significant competitive advantage. Penalties are usually minor, and can include a letter in the school’s file.”

You are taking a finding and interpreting it the way you want just as some are calling it cheating. . If it was inadvertent sure I wouldn't call that cheating. BUT it says OR doesn't represent a significant advantage. Significant does not mean NONE, right? I would say anytime a program gains an advantage as stated below. by the NCAA it COULD be seen as cheating. Can you show me where the NCAA deems the violation only as inadvertent. If so, I agree with you.

From the NCAA -

Secondary violations are isolated or inadvertent and provide only minimal recruiting, competitive or other advantages. They do not include significant impermissible benefits. If an institution commits several secondary violations, the violations may be collectively considered a major infraction.

In no way do I think this is on par with paying recruits or any serious violations. Per one of your articles. below I think it's safe to assume my belief about perception could be right. ESPN stopped for a reason.It's obvious they realize it could be perceived as a benefit. I don't know of any institution that avoids violations the NCAA is too much for anyone.

"In October 2005, ESPN's programming department received a request from the UConn's women's basketball office to provide a tour to high school player Maya Moore and her mother," the network said in a statement. "We obliged. To avoid future incidents, our tour policy will now prohibit high school athletes from receiving tours at the request of a college or university athletic official."

Nowhere in my reply to you did I say it was cheating, right? So as I said in my reply - It is a violation right? and regardless why, it doesn't make it any less of a violation right? Do you agree? These are facts correct?
 
Last edited:
Likes: VA_VOLFAN

CannonVol80

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
952
Likes
2,022
One thing that we have learned in the political arena is that you cannot make someone change their views even in the face of complete and total evidence. Let me repeat, ANYONE could have had a free tour of ESPN. (actually, I believe to be more accurate, it was any communication major in college.) It is well documented. It is fact. It is researchable. Hang your hat on the argument if you wish - but it is verifiable and incontrovertible.
If this is, in fact, more accurate, don't you see that it negates your first claim that "ANYONE could have had a free tour of ESPN", especially since Maya Moore was
not, at the time, even a college student, much less, a communications major.

That said, the ESPN tour was a very small piece of the puzzle that was the complaint that was made. And, in my opinion, was seized upon by UConn and the NCAA as a means of slapping UConn on the wrist rather than dealing with the real issues. I happen to have been present at the practice when Pat had a meeting with the Moores and came out of that meeting and told members of the staff, "You're not going to believe what she asked me for!" ("Known in the law as an "excited utterance") Put this in the context of Kathryn Moore's subsequent move from Georgia (without a job) to a state with one of the highest costs of living in the US and just about anyone can see the circumstantial evidence supporting a specific conclusion.

Before you suggest that yours is the only accurate point of view, you might consider that you don't have the "complete and total evidence".

Jim
 

Lucy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2019
Messages
2,003
Likes
6,359
The NCAA defines a secondary violation as one that is inadvertent in nature or doesn’t represent a significant competitive advantage. Penalties are usually minor, and can include a letter in the school’s file.”

Maya Moore recruiting violation (describes secondary violation)

Tennessee football, Lady Vols commit minor recruiting violations (Tennessee self-reported just three minor NCAA violations during 2020, a downtick in violations compared to previous years. UT reported two by the women’s basketball program. Each was considered an NCAA Level III recruiting violation and resulted in minor institutional or SEC action and no additional penalties imposed by the NCAA.

UConn self-reports 17 minor NCAA violations (secondary violations are nothing, in most cases inadvertent)

ELSBERRY Tennessee coach Summitt’s comments an embarrassment (original article I quoted)

UConn, Moore cited for NCAA recruiting violation (second one to say free to public)

High time UConn Huskies and Tennessee Lady Vols resume game's greatest rivalry (sec news, all the Knoxville/Tennessee ones are behind paywalls, but I am sure they will also confirm ESPN was open to anyone (at the time).
So some of the citations you listed do not appear to have been quoted by you. I’m assuming you listed them as background or definitional sources.
The CtPost article appears to be where a lot of your quotes come from. Interesting, however, you failed to include this quote from the cited article. Pat Summit is”nothing more than a jealous witch with an embarrassing display that reeks of inflated ego and years of hatred toward a program that not only has long passed Tennessee as the premier women’s program in the country, but left hers wallowing in the dust.”
This appears to be an opinion piece not a news article. Please don’t come on this board again with this sort of pathetic crap. The UConn student newspaper would have been a more legitimate source. Did you really think no one would look into your obviously slanted post?
 

NeedOrange

there is no elevator to the top
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
1,381
Likes
2,093
That’s gotta be going over well at the bone-yard…
Yeah it does go over well at the boneyard. It's just factual reference to the greatness of Pat's accomplishments and the classy way she went about her business.

You don't think the comments are original do you? She heard them from her father.

I don't know why Volnation thinks the boneyard doesn't appreciate Pat and all she did. Without Pat there would be no UConn. She gave us the platform on which we stand and Geno admits that regularly.
 
Likes: glv98

VN Store




Top