Gun control debate (merged)

[hog88]

Ok, so, once again, how does the US compare to other countries on gun violence? It’s a completely relevant, scientific question to pose. Answer it and let’s discuss, or ignore it and let’s just write it off as you choose to ignore it.

How does the US compare to other countries in regards to people on antidepressants and attention disorder drugs? Start there.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Ok, I did. Was this the section you’re pointing out?
”There are many legal and responsible uses for guns; an individual’s right to own and possess guns was established in the U.S. Constitution and affirmed in the 2008 and 2010 Supreme Court rulings in District of Columbia v. Heller15 and McDonald v. City of Chicago.16 However, the scarcity of research on firearm-related violence limits policy makers’ ability to propose evidence-based policies that reduce injuries and deaths and maximize safety while recognizing Second Amendment rights. Since the 1960s, a number of state and federal laws and regulations have been enacted that restrict government’s ability to collect and share information about gun sales, ownership, and possession, which has limited data collection and collation relevant to firearm violence prevention research. Among these are the amendments to the Gun Control Act of 1968,17 which prohibits the federal government from establishing an electronic database of the names of gun purchasers and requires gun dealers to conduct annual inventories of their firearms.
In addition to the restrictions on certain kinds of data collection, congressional action in 1996 effectively halted all firearm-related injury research at the CDC by prohibiting the use of federal funding “to advocate or promote gun control.”18 In 2011, Congress enacted similar restrictions affecting the entire U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.19 The net result was an overall reduction in firearm violence research (Kellermann and Rivara, 2013). As a result, the past 20 years have witnessed diminished progress in understanding the causes and effects of firearm violence.“

Here’s a decent summation.
CDC Gun Research Backfires on Obama

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Require every gun purchaser to go through a criminal background check, make gun trafficking a federal crime.

THERE IT IS!

How about voters getting an ID then?

Oh, and I am pretty sure gun trafficking is a crime already.

But I am sure it will make a yuge dent in the Chicago murder rate if I have to be investigated in order to buy a rifle.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Ok, quantify that for me. Does the US have more mental illness?

We have more Democrats than any other country, so I would say that is a huge yes.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Background checks are only required if you purchase a gun through a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL), which includes retailers (anyone from Walmart to mom and pop shops) and some individuals. You do not need to undergo a background check if you buy a gun online, through a gun show, or through some private sales.

Speak for yourself

If I buy a gun from my brother, why would he put me thru a background check? Because it is the law? LOL.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Again it is already against the law to buy a firearm at a gun show or online without a FFL. Private sales between individuals are impossible to ever regulate period. There is nothing to preemptively stop that.
The fact you think some meaningless law would keep criminals from obtaining firearms is hilarious

It's not hilarious actually. It's dangerous and pathetic at the same time.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Like I said earlier, make illegal gun dealing a federal crime, then enforce it. Not rocket science.

LOL

 

[hndog609]

So how does the US rank in gun violence statistics?

Literally could not care less about comparing the US to other countries. Hell, it's a mess trying to make good comparisons across different states just here in the US. Here's a post I made pointing out that issue. (it's a bit dated being a previous post and all but I think that's a small issue in context)

It's more complicated than what you're trying to posit. I compared Guns & Ammo's 2017 "Best States for Gun Owners" (gun friendly) to the latest gun murder rates I could find (2015) and found this:

Of the 17 states with a firearm homicide rate of less than 2 8 were in the top 20 most gun friendly.

Of the states (plus DC, which was also 17 interestingly enough) with a FHR of 3.5 or more 5 were from the 20 least gun friendly.

The average ranking was 27.29 for the former and 25.29 for the latter. Practically no difference at all.

Demographics and socio-economics look to be a much greater driver of firearm homicide (or lack thereof) than just saying "Gun Laws! Yeah!".

And what about just cities? Based on the idea of what you think firearms laws would look like where do you think you'd be safer, San Antonio TX or Philly PA? (selected for having near equal populations at the time of this data) Well the numbers I'm looking at has SA's murder and non-negligent ms rate per 100k at 8.15 vs Philly's at 20.06.

The real bedrock in all this is that guns in and of themselves are a pretty poor indicator of outcome in the US and clearly there are much greater drivers at work. This is precisely why so many are steadfastly resistant to the incessant (in some cases psychotic) fixation on firearms.

 

[hog88]

They are.

Nope

 

[vols40]

The CDC studies just about anything and everything detrimental to human life and well-being, but they weren’t the only ones mentioned were they? The FBI, CIA, ATF... they all have legal or financial restrictions on gun-related research.

Guns are not the problem. People are the problem. Need more arm citizens shooting crazy people between the eyes to say enough is enough

 

[MG1968]

Gun owners are the most emotional people in America. If you propose anything that restricts your "right" to the unfettered purchase of firearms you lose your minds.

2A supporters can’t hold a candle to abortion rights advocates when it comes to histrionics any time “reasonable restrictions” are mentioned.

 

[OHvol40]

Why not you are!

And you gun grabbers do this over and over and over...

Still 0.000 what else ya got?

Gun grabber? Bet I have more than you...

 

[OHvol40]

The US has millions more than most country and yes it has a large section of mentally ill and drug addicts that aren’t as large as in other countries. I figured you would understand that even in your mid level hospital

Prove it.

And mid-level... lol

There is only one hospital in the entire state of TN that isn’t mid-level, and it ain’t UT.

 

[OHvol40]

How does the US compare to other countries in regards to people on antidepressants and attention disorder drugs? Start there.

Prescribed drugs does not = mental illness numbers, it just means we prescribe more drugs.

 

[OHvol40]

Here’s a decent summation.
CDC Gun Research Backfires on Obama

Did you just ignore that section I quoted from the study YOU provided?

 

[OHvol40]

THERE IT IS!

How about voters getting an ID then?

Oh, and I am pretty sure gun trafficking is a crime already.

But I am sure it will make a yuge dent in the Chicago murder rate if I have to be investigated in order to buy a rifle.

Is that whataboutism I sense?

 

[OHvol40]

Literally could not care less about comparing the US to other countries. Hell, it's a mess trying to make good comparisons across different states just here in the US. Here's a post I made pointing out that issue. (it's a bit dated being a previous post and all but I think that's a small issue in context)

It's more complicated than what you're trying to posit. I compared Guns & Ammo's 2017 "Best States for Gun Owners" (gun friendly) to the latest gun murder rates I could find (2015) and found this:

Of the 17 states with a firearm homicide rate of less than 2 8 were in the top 20 most gun friendly.

Of the states (plus DC, which was also 17 interestingly enough) with a FHR of 3.5 or more 5 were from the 20 least gun friendly.

The average ranking was 27.29 for the former and 25.29 for the latter. Practically no difference at all.

Demographics and socio-economics look to be a much greater driver of firearm homicide (or lack thereof) than just saying "Gun Laws! Yeah!".

And what about just cities? Based on the idea of what you think firearms laws would look like where do you think you'd be safer, San Antonio TX or Philly PA? (selected for having near equal populations at the time of this data) Well the numbers I'm looking at has SA's murder and non-negligent ms rate per 100k at 8.15 vs Philly's at 20.06.

The real bedrock in all this is that guns in and of themselves are a pretty poor indicator of outcome in the US and clearly there are much greater drivers at work. This is precisely why so many are steadfastly resistant to the incessant (in some cases psychotic) fixation on firearms.

 

[OHvol40]

Guns are not the problem. People are the problem. Need more arm citizens shooting crazy people between the eyes to say enough is enough

 

[vols40]

View attachment 270092

And not one of those guns pulled their own triggers.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Gun grabber? Bet I have more than you...

Maybe don’t know. However you clearly covet your fellow red necks guns and their control over those guns. Cause you don’t seem to be able mind your own damn business on me and my guns. It’s none of your or the government’s damn business what firearms I own or what limitations on said ownership should apply.

 

[NorthDallas40]

View attachment 270092

Now break out the suicides! We’ve covered this already! You’re not interested in “gun deaths” or you’d be focusing on suicide! People are the damn problem!

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Did you just ignore that section I quoted from the study YOU provided?

Yeah, I did and went to the overall conclusion of the study. You know, the damn point.

 

[NorthDallas40]

View attachment 270092

Our homicide rate is largely unchanged for over a hundred years. But the current trend is downward anyway! Guns aren’t the problem people are the problem

 

[vols40]

Our homicide rate is largely unchanged for over a hundred years. But the current trend is downward anyway! Guns aren’t the problem people are the problem View attachment 270098

That's why I was so impressed with the deacon of that church acting bravely and dropping that scumbag.

 

[bnhunt]

Let’s be real here. No dem should ever talk about being on the right side of 1a. If it wasn’t for 1a. The left would of past hate speech laws along time ago. I don’t know about said poster, but if you’re asking me that question, the media has the right to write whatever fake crap they want. If people, like yourself, are too stupid to think for themselves than that is a bigger problem than the media’s lies.

Yet you live on every word of FoxNews and Rush Limbaugh. The "fake news" angle is the weakest and most ridiculous argument right-wingers try to make. It's just a Trump talking point that has no place in reality, but has turned into some silly rallying cry for the right.