Mike Woodson to Indiana

#6

golfballs

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#6
Why exactly has Indiana been so bad for so long? This is different than being bad at football. Basketball requires less investment and just a couple key recruits to get it turned around.
Coaching hires. They replaced Knight w a bad coach. And then hired a coach who got busted by the NCAA and were basically garbage when Crean took over. He did an excellent job elevating the program from where it had been when he was hired but under formed in the Tourney. So they went through another coaching change. I thought they should have given Crean another year. He was 1 year removed from a S16. At least he was making the tourney.
 
#7

05_never_again

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#7
Coaching hires. They replaced Knight w a bad coach. And then hired a coach who got busted by the NCAA and were basically garbage when Crean took over. He did an excellent job elevating the program from where it had been when he was hired but under formed in the Tourney. So they went through another coaching change. I thought they should have given Crean another year. He was 1 year removed from a S16. At least he was making the tourney.
But why can't they attract a great coach? It isn't like Tennessee football where you have an 80+ man roster, competing in the SEC, etc. The Big 10 is not some year in, year out gauntlet and Indiana used to be one of the best brands in that conference. Their record of mediocrity goes back longer than even Tennessee football's.

Archie Miller had solid teams at Dayton, but then got to Indiana and it's like he forgot how to coach.
 
#8

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#8
But why can't they attract a great coach? It isn't like Tennessee football where you have an 80+ man roster, competing in the SEC, etc. The Big 10 is not some year in, year out gauntlet and Indiana used to be one of the best brands in that conference. Their record of mediocrity goes back longer than even Tennessee football's.
Theyve been able to attract good candidates, but through bad decisions (like davis) or bad luck like Sampson, or high expectations like Crean, they’ve failed. When Davis was hired following Knight I think they had more than just winning games on their mind. Kelvin Sampson is obviously a good coach but he got busted by the NCAA. And Crean was a big hire... having made a Final 4 w Marquette and had very good teams there. When they hired Archie he was one of the best “up and coming” coaches that year. He was a good candidate and having operated in nearby Dayton for 6 years it seemed to make sense. He was considered a better candidate by most than Chris Holtmann who OSU ended up hiring. OSU even tried to hire Archie from IU right after he took over.
 
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05_never_again

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#9
Theyve been able to attract good candidates, but through bad decisions (like davis) or bad luck like Sampson, or high expectations like Crean, they’ve failed. When Davis was hired following Knight I think they had more than just winning games on their mind. Kelvin Sampson is obviously a good coach but he got busted by the NCAA. And Crean was a big hire... having made a Final 4 w Marquette and had very good teams there. When they hired Archie he was one of the best “up and coming” coaches that year. He was a good candidate and having operated in nearby Dayton for 6 years it seemed to make sense. He was considered a better candidate by most than Chris Holtmann who OSU ended up hiring. OSU even tried to hire Archie from IU right after he took over.
That's what's so interesting about it. Both Crean and Miller were thought by seemingly everyone as good hires at the time. Is there something structural there that prevents their coaches from coaching? Certainly would not be the first program something like that has happened to.

In contrast, all of Tennessee's post-Fulmer football hires were received either as "meh" or "wait and see" by national media. None have widely been thought of as great hires at the time they were made. It isn't like we hired Gruden and he failed, hired James Franklin and he failed, etc.

I don't know what would be more frustrating - consistently having good coaches tell you "no," or getting "your coach" and having that coach fail anyway. Probably the latter.
 
#12

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#12
Why exactly has Indiana been so bad for so long? This is different than being bad at football. Basketball requires less investment and just a couple key recruits to get it turned around.
Hired bad or overrated coaches. That’s being said, if Kelvin Sampson doesn’t get fired for NCAA violations, he would have had built them into a yearly contender.
 
#16

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#16
I don’t think the games translate much. College is a whole different beast from pros. Kind of a risky hire, but there aren’t a ton of college candidates who really stand out for this job
Indiana might be at that place where they just need to throw money at a "proven coach" at the P5 level, but they might have trouble attracting one. Kind of like a certain school in orange in another sport.

They consider themselves a blue blood of the sport. I wonder if they look around and see the current coaches at Kansas and North Carolina being guys who had previous success at another P5 program. K is an exception, building Duke himself. Cal was a very successful mid-major coach, but he had big program-type of success at both UMass and Memphis, making multiple deep tournament runs at both places.

I think what they ultimately need is a coach that has made multiple deep tournament runs at previous stops, preferably at a P5 school(s). Crean and Miller both made a deep runs at their previous stops, but they didn't do it consistently. They did hire a coach who did that with Sampson, but he got them in NCAA trouble. They are snakebit, no doubt about it.
 
#17
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#17
Along with Tennessee, IU was my favorite basketball team in my younger days. I hope for the best with the Woodson hire, but the man is 63 years old, and that's an odd age to be transitioning to college basketball. He knows the game inside out, but coaching at the college level is a different beast altogether than the pros. I think Indiana is trying to resurrect their past, similar to Michigan with Juwan Howard and hoping for the same level of success.
 
#18

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#18
Indiana might be at that place where they just need to throw money at a "proven coach" at the P5 level, but they might have trouble attracting one. Kind of like a certain school in orange in another sport.

They consider themselves a blue blood of the sport. I wonder if they look around and see the current coaches at Kansas and North Carolina being guys who had previous success at another P5 program. K is an exception, building Duke himself. Cal was a very successful mid-major coach, but he had big program-type of success at both UMass and Memphis, making multiple deep tournament runs at both places.

I think what they ultimately need is a coach that has made multiple deep tournament runs at previous stops, preferably at a P5 school(s). Crean and Miller both made a deep runs at their previous stops, but they didn't do it consistently. They did hire a coach who did that with Sampson, but he got them in NCAA trouble. They are snakebit, no doubt about it.
They’re not a blue blood anymore. At this point just a top 25 program. Scott Drew has Baylor humming but I’d still consider Indiana to be a better program. He’s a Hoosier. I don’t know what kind of money they could muster but they were paying Archie about the same as Drew makes. Bump that up by a mil and maybe he’d listen
 
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#19

05_never_again

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#19
They’re not a blue blood anymore. At this point just a top 25 program. Scott Drew has Baylor humming but I’d still consider Indiana to be a better program. He’s a Hoosier. I don’t know what kind of money they could muster but they were paying Archie about the same as Drew makes. Bump that up by a mil and maybe he’d listen
Other than getting lucky with an up and comer, I think a hire like that is their only way out of it.
 
#22

05_never_again

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#22
Yeah, although would have to wonder if he wants to get back into it at this point. He's 68, and Indiana basketball is a meat grinder. I still can't, for the life of me, believe he left Michigan.

He has the resume of a coach they need though. That is not the place for an up and coming coach to put it mildly, but neither Crean nor Miller were up and comers and they ultimately didn't work out either.
 
#23

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#23
Yeah, although would have to wonder if he wants to get back into it at this point. He's 68, and Indiana basketball is a meat grinder. I still can't, for the life of me, believe he left Michigan.

He has the resume of a coach they need though. That is not the place for an up and coming coach to put it mildly, but neither Crean nor Miller were up and comers and they ultimately didn't work out either.
Archie was an up and comer. He was at Dayton. Both of the previous hires, Crean and Sampson had made a Final 4 w their prior team. I don’t think that’s going to happen again for them. Now w Woodson they’ve basically tried every kind of coach under the sun.
 
#24

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#24
Indiana is basically Bobby Knight and a few good seasons by McCracken at the dawn of the NCAAT. They only made 5 NCAAs in 30+ years of NCAATs before Knight got there. They have made 10 in 21 years since he left. Knight has as many conference titles as all their other coaches combined in the 115 years they've been competing for Big 10 titles. The Lady Vols are having the same struggle replacing Summitt, except it's much easier to make the field in women's basketball.
 

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