Messy Situation in Wisconsin

[stolitonic]

Wow, this is an odd one. Player signed a two year contract with Wisconsin very recently. Then decided he wanted to transfer-to Miami under the guise of a sick father.

College football in the year 2025 is getting a bit out of control.

Former Wisconsin DB Xavier Lucas leaving school for Miami without entering transfer portal in a groundbreaking move

Wisconsin refused to enter Lucas into the portal after he requested a transfer, but he's off to Miami regardless in a groundbreaking move that may have ramifications across college football.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[CAVPUT]

Why do I think this might be a Curtis Flood type event? Do contracts matter? Do rules? Can players walk Saturday mornings before a game unless paid more? This is insane. For the love of money....gospel truth.

 

[ptcarter]

Lawyer up. College football needs to abide by the rule: "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away". Who's writing these NIL contracts anyway? I harken (love that word) to one of the initial deals the Gators made with the QB that walked. It's still the Wild West.

 

[stolitonic]

Why do I think this might be a Curtis Flood type event? Do contracts matter? Do rules? Can players walk Saturday mornings before a game unless paid more? This is insane. For the love of money....gospel truth.

If it ever gets out that a key player at a major university sat out a key game in season in search of more NIL funds that may very well spell the end of CFB.

Face it, even when I am lucky enough to be at my folks place in TN 90 minutes from Knox-a bare bones trip for two to see a UT football game is a $500 investment. No hotel. Just cheap tickets, gas, and dinner. If I take more of a normal "planned" trip involving flights, a rental car, and hotels-that jumps up to more like $2500. Chances are even for that princely sum, it would be a OOC cupcake game. A legit SEC game and add on another grand-easily.

I don't sweat the money, but would I spend it if I knew for instance that say Nico or Pierce had decided to sit out that week seeking even more $$?

I know the kid at UNLV did his thing a few months ago, but there is a big difference in the world between the Wisconsins and the UNLVs of the world.

Things are just gonna devolve into few even bothering pretty quickly. Maybe it's for the best really. Scrap the whole thing and start over

The reason I gravitated to the college game vs the NFL in the first place was the passion of the games. Once you remove that-and much of it is already gone, then what are you left with? 90% or more of the kids on any team have no future in pro football-even considering the CFL and the spring leagues. Just a fast train to nowhere man. Kids who are more talented than the average but nowhere near good enough to make the league demanding millions. Lol.

Hope they save their money wisely. Life is not going to be very easy for some of these guys once they hit 22 or 23 and have no education, already blew through their money, and have a big tax bill waiting on them.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The NCAA quickly backed off and said: a student can unenroll and enroll at another school without the portal. We can't control that.

Basically, the NCAA are not going to bat for WI and getting sued over this and losing. The NCAA is also going turn their head to the obvious tampering by Miami by talking to a player not in the portal. This tells other teams: portal smortal, talk to any player you want at any time.

For those who've been calling for multi-year contracts for players, WI is now in the spot having to prove a contract is enforceable for a student who attends a college "at will" OR having that contracted student be declared an employee with whom they can enforce a contract.

 

[vavolfan6]

It's odd how Miami is always mentioned in these shady dealings. They are openly tampering and there seems to be no repercussions.

I really don't even understand how that program has as much money to spend as they do. They went the last decade of having their 65k capacity stadium less than half full. Some games looked 90% empty.

 

[Godfatha]

It's odd how Miami is always mentioned in these shady dealings. They are openly tampering and there seems to be no repercussions.

I really don't even understand how that program has as much money to spend as they do. They went the last decade of having their 65k capacity stadium less than half full. Some games looked 90% empty.

They got one sleezy booster that funds that program.

 

[stolitonic]

It's odd how Miami is always mentioned in these shady dealings. They are openly tampering and there seems to be no repercussions.

I really don't even understand how that program has as much money to spend as they do. They went the last decade of having their 65k capacity stadium less than half full. Some games looked 90% empty.

Amazes me that Miami has been able to hold onto a spot as one of the theoretical top teams in the country.

Their walk through the wilderness has been even longer and tougher than ours was. Basically it's been 20 years since the team was relevant at this point.

I suppose that part of the reason is that their supporters have been loyal while at the same time for the most part having nothing else to do with the University.

Then again, I guess the Hurricanes could have their own version of T Boone Pickens or Phil Knight but I have no clue who that would be.

 

[Firebirdparts]

Glad it ain't my money.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

They got one sleezy booster that funds that program.

Ruiz is in a world of hurt with the SEC on him and a failing business.

There is, however, in Miami more throwaway money than in most places. Cue a mashup of the Miami Vice theme and J J Cale's Cocaine.

 

[BowlBrother85]

It's odd how Miami is always mentioned in these shady dealings. They are openly tampering and there seems to be no repercussions.

I really don't even understand how that program has as much money to spend as they do. They went the last decade of having their 65k capacity stadium less than half full. Some games looked 90% empty.

Yes, they are.

Even during the course of the season, Miami is aggressively recruiting players from the rosters of other schools through back-channel contacts by offering big money to transfer, before these players have entered the transfer portal. They did this last month with Boo Carter too. If this is allowed to become "business as usual," then college athletics will have lost all structure, and will be a chaotic and disorganized mess.

 

[BowlBrother85]

I guess the Hurricanes could have their own version of T Boone Pickens or Phil Knight but I have no clue who that would be.

Biden Commutes Sentence for Ex-Miami Booster, Ponzi Schemer

President Joe Biden cut short the 20-year sentence of convicted fraudster Nevin Shapiro. Shapiro's previous confessions led to an NCAA investigation.

www.sportico.com

Miami has a slew of Nevin Shapiro "types."

Our doofus President just commuted Shapiro's sentence, by the way.

 

[stolitonic]

Biden Commutes Sentence for Ex-Miami Booster, Ponzi Schemer

President Joe Biden cut short the 20-year sentence of convicted fraudster Nevin Shapiro. Shapiro's previous confessions led to an NCAA investigation.

www.sportico.com

Miami has a slew of Nevin Shapiro "types."

Our doofus President just commuted Shapiro's sentence, by the way.

I knew about Shapiro (but not the pardon). I always thought he was small time in the grand scheme of things though. One of those "look at me" self promoting Dbags that I go out of my way to avoid

I was referring more to what Phil Knight does at Oregon, Pickens did at Okie St, and the Gaylord family did at Oklahoma

Nobody questions where their money comes from. They get all the recognition in the world without it having to be mentioned every 30 seconds.

 

[sigmundoooz]

If it ever gets out that a key player at a major university sat out a key game in season in search of more NIL funds that may very well spell the end of CFB.

Face it, even when I am lucky enough to be at my folks place in TN 90 minutes from Knox-a bare bones trip for two to see a UT football game is a $500 investment. No hotel. Just cheap tickets, gas, and dinner. If I take more of a normal "planned" trip involving flights, a rental car, and hotels-that jumps up to more like $2500. Chances are even for that princely sum, it would be a OOC cupcake game. A legit SEC game and add on another grand-easily.

I don't sweat the money, but would I spend it if I knew for instance that say Nico or Pierce had decided to sit out that week seeking even more $$?

I know the kid at UNLV did his thing a few months ago, but there is a big difference in the world between the Wisconsins and the UNLVs of the world.

Things are just gonna devolve into few even bothering pretty quickly. Maybe it's for the best really. Scrap the whole thing and start over

The reason I gravitated to the college game vs the NFL in the first place was the passion of the games. Once you remove that-and much of it is already gone, then what are you left with? 90% or more of the kids on any team have no future in pro football-even considering the CFL and the spring leagues. Just a fast train to nowhere man. Kids who are more talented than the average but nowhere near good enough to make the league demanding millions. Lol.

Hope they save their money wisely. Life is not going to be very easy for some of these guys once they hit 22 or 23 and have no education, already blew through their money, and have a big tax bill waiting on them.

Taco Bell

 

[Okie]

If it ever gets out that a key player at a major university sat out a key game in season in search of more NIL funds that may very well spell the end of CFB.

Face it, even when I am lucky enough to be at my folks place in TN 90 minutes from Knox-a bare bones trip for two to see a UT football game is a $500 investment. No hotel. Just cheap tickets, gas, and dinner. If I take more of a normal "planned" trip involving flights, a rental car, and hotels-that jumps up to more like $2500. Chances are even for that princely sum, it would be a OOC cupcake game. A legit SEC game and add on another grand-easily.

I don't sweat the money, but would I spend it if I knew for instance that say Nico or Pierce had decided to sit out that week seeking even more $$?

I know the kid at UNLV did his thing a few months ago, but there is a big difference in the world between the Wisconsins and the UNLVs of the world.

Things are just gonna devolve into few even bothering pretty quickly. Maybe it's for the best really. Scrap the whole thing and start over

The reason I gravitated to the college game vs the NFL in the first place was the passion of the games. Once you remove that-and much of it is already gone, then what are you left with? 90% or more of the kids on any team have no future in pro football-even considering the CFL and the spring leagues. Just a fast train to nowhere man. Kids who are more talented than the average but nowhere near good enough to make the league demanding millions. Lol.

Hope they save their money wisely. Life is not going to be very easy for some of these guys once they hit 22 or 23 and have no education, already blew through their money, and have a big tax bill waiting on them.

I thought the UNLV kid's issue is that they didn't pay him what he thought he had been promised. Foolish to not get it in writing, but to me that's different than holding out for more than you are getting if you are getting what you were promised.

I agree with you though, some kids are going to stop playing until they get more money. I hope that schools call them out and stand firm in not paying it. Schools are somewhat held hostage in this right now, but no need to set the precedent. Though someone probably will.

 

[stolitonic]

I thought the UNLV kid's issue is that they didn't pay him what he thought he had been promised. Foolish to not get it in writing, but to me that's different than holding out for more than you are getting if you are getting what you were promised.

I agree with you though, some kids are going to stop playing until they get more money. I hope that schools call them out and stand firm in not paying it. Schools are somewhat held hostage in this right now, but no need to set the precedent. Though someone probably will.

Something I didn't consider until earlier tonight was the potential impact of widespread sports betting.

Was never really my thing, but I did usually do a $5 parlay each week when I lived in NV. They were all like 16 pick tickets or something godawful that were never going to win lol.

In this free for all for the almighty $$ you know sooner or later somebody is gonna try fixing a game. Its as inevitable as death and taxes with the way things are progressing.

 

[Voltopia]

If it ever gets out that a key player at a major university sat out a key game in season in search of more NIL funds that may very well spell the end of CFB.

It's already happened - there was a an "unnamed Ole Miss running back" who constantly threatened Ole Miss with transferring, but if you read the history of Ole Miss's teams it's not hard to figure out the player was Quinshon Judkins. He threatened to skip multiple games and their bowl game if they didn't meet his demands. It was even claimed he tried to sit out at halftime of a close SEC game to try to force the Ole Miss NIL program's hand on agreeing to pay more money - after they had already acquiesced to his demands earlier that season. They called his bluff - that time.

He threatened to leave at the end of both 2022 and 2023 if they didn't up his money, so they did. And then a few weeks after they worked out his post-2023 deal, he transferred to Ohio State anyway..

And he's not the only one, I'm sure. Just one of the more notorious stories.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

The NCAA quickly backed off and said: a student can unenroll and enroll at another school without the portal. We can't control that.

Basically, the NCAA are not going to bat for WI and getting sued over this and losing. The NCAA is also going turn their head to the obvious tampering by Miami by talking to a player not in the portal. This tells other teams: portal smortal, talk to any player you want at any time.

For those who've been calling for multi-year contracts for players, WI is now in the spot having to prove a contract is enforceable for a student who attends a college "at will" OR having that contracted student be declared an employee with whom they can enforce a contract.

I am not saying Miami did or did not tamper by contacting the player before he announced his intention to enter portal.

So sitting that aside. The contract is not with WI, it is NIL and with collective and at this point University is not the one to enforce it.

So the story I heard is that he asked to be put in portal and WI refused/did not make the entry so the kid transferred anyway. If that is the case, the NCAA is not going to be stupid enough to get involved.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I am not saying Miami did or did not tamper by contacting the player before he announced his intention to enter portal.

So sitting that aside. The contract is not with WI, it is NIL and with collective and at this point University is not the one to enforce it.

So the story I heard is that he asked to be put in portal and WI refused/did not make the entry so the kid transferred anyway. If that is the case, the NCAA is not going to be stupid enough to get involved.

That's correct, though I'm reasonably certain it's also said he signed one of the new "revenue sharing" deals with the school. The NCAA, nonetheless, wants no part of any of this.

Any "pay to play, excuse me...... pay to perform endorsement opportunities, that requires attendance at a certain school for multiple years" contract is edging very close to an employment contract.

I'd bet the NCAA is telling WI and their collective to take their losses and not push this to court because it might lead to employee status for players with NIL deals.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

That's correct, though I'm reasonably certain it's also said he signed one of the new "revenue sharing" deals with the school. The NCAA, nonetheless, wants no part of any of this.

Any "pay to play, excuse me...... pay to perform endorsement opportunities, that requires attendance at a certain school for multiple years" contract is edging very close to an employment contract.

I'd bet the NCAA is telling WI and their collective to take their losses and not push this to court because it might lead to employee status for players with NIL deals.

There is no revenue sharing yet, so any deal citing it is unenforceable until there is.

 

[VOLLeeann]

If it ever gets out that a key player at a major university sat out a key game in season in search of more NIL funds that may very well spell the end of CFB.

Key words in italics b/c I guarantee you the chances are over 99% it has already happened

 

[stolitonic]

It's already happened - there was a an "unnamed Ole Miss running back" who constantly threatened Ole Miss with transferring, but if you read the history of Ole Miss's teams it's not hard to figure out the player was Quinshon Judkins. He threatened to skip multiple games and their bowl game if they didn't meet his demands. It was even claimed he tried to sit out at halftime of a close SEC game to try to force the Ole Miss NIL program's hand on agreeing to pay more money - after they had already acquiesced to his demands earlier that season. They called his bluff - that time.

He threatened to leave at the end of both 2022 and 2023 if they didn't up his money, so they did. And then a few weeks after they worked out his post-2023 deal, he transferred to Ohio State anyway..

And he's not the only one, I'm sure. Just one of the more notorious stories.

Key words in italics b/c I guarantee you the chances are over 99% it has already happened

I don't really follow Ole Miss that closely so I honestly don't know enough about the situation . All I can really say (considering their choice of HC anyway) would be that it couldn't happen to a nicer guy lol.

I agree fully that it is already happening or is inevitable. I suppose my point was that if it ever comes out that this had taken place at UT during the season and the response to the athlete was anything other than "pound sand" I would be highly disappointed. My NIL fund and university contributions would cease immediately I know that much.

If the knowledge of what Judkins did is that widespread, how is he planning on getting drafted? NFL teams would not touch that mess with a 10 foot pole.

 

[Remy]

Somebody mentioned the player at UNLV that "sat out." Understand it takes at least two to enter a contract. So as to even the playing field in this discussion the fault does not always lie with the players. In the UNLV case, the NIL group there reneged on paying the young man after entering an agreement. He was correct to withhold his services. Regarding the youngster from Florida his story was the same. Think there aren't shysters out there trying to get something for nothing out of youngster?

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Wow, this is an odd one. Player signed a two year contract with Wisconsin very recently. Then decided he wanted to transfer-to Miami under the guise of a sick father.

College football in the year 2025 is getting a bit out of control.

Former Wisconsin DB Xavier Lucas leaving school for Miami without entering transfer portal in a groundbreaking move

Wisconsin refused to enter Lucas into the portal after he requested a transfer, but he's off to Miami regardless in a groundbreaking move that may have ramifications across college football.

sports.yahoo.com

He didn't sign a contract with Wisconsin.
He signed with a NIL collective.

 

[ATCVolinmn]

He didn't sign a contract with Wisconsin.
He signed with a NIL collective.

The article says he signed a revenue sharing deal with the school.....isn't that different than NIL?