McElwain Vs. Butch/Dooley

[TheColdVolTruth]

the Fordham transfer halter has been pretty dang good

Signed like 6 freshmen got another transfer from mc state

That's 8 guys Mac had to land to get numbers up

Stop crediting the head coach. Head coaches are powerless in managing attrition. That doesn't fit the narrative of the discussion. Head coaches are to be revered and never questioned, but the one thing they are powerless to change is the status of the roster in any time frame less than five years. If you can't understand how things work around here, I'm going to have to ask you to leave. You will never convince anyone here that a head coach can make a difference in less than half a decade.

 

[BIG BOI 23]

Let's start with OL...

Everyone of our starting lineman was a 3* player, the only 4* player we have in our two deep is Jack Jones, a true freshman.

David Sharp is a 4*, Trip Thurman is a 4*, Mason Halter is a Two Time All American transfer from Fordham RS Sr.....You have a 5* freshman in Ivey...

Who exactly would you hand pick from our roster to replace your guys with?

everybody said our OL would be awful even gator fans just from inexperience alone

here i found espn's preseason postition rankings

SEC preseason position rankings: offensive line - SEC Blog - ESPN


rb and wr wasnt much better

SEC preseason position rankings: Receivers and tight ends - SEC Blog - ESPN

SEC preseason position rankings: Running back - SEC Blog - ESPN

 

[KBVol]

I can speak on the offensive line and you can make up your own mind.

At the end of 2014, dj humphries left for the NFL. Tyler Moore also left early. Florida was down to like 7 lineman for the spring when the worst news possible came. The best returning offensive lineman, rod Johnson was diagnosed with a medical condition and his career was over.

So what was left was, sharpe (a highly rated true soph), trip Thurman (RSR) who has his own injury issues and some thought he would not play this season. Others think his shoulder is a ticking time bomb. Those were the guys who were not going to scare you if they played.

Cam Dillard was thought to be a bust that no one expected to see the field. Riles was a converted defensive lineman moved to create depth. No one thought he would actually ever be asked to play.

There are two or three other guys that returned that don't sniff the field.

Enter ...a transfer from Fordham...yes, Fordham. This guy starts.

Enter in three true freshman who beat out everyone else and are basically the team's only depth.

So, a tackle who was a highly recruited guy expected to play. A serviceable guard with an injury issue. Two guys who were never supposed to see the field at center and the other guard. And a transfer from Fordham who plays tackle (from FCS to SEC mind you) and slides to guard at times. All backed up by three true freshman who play heavily.

So, its up to you to determine if that's what you would want sowing into a season.

Oh, then put a redshirt freshman first year starter at QB behind that line

That's even worse than I thought. That's far worse than just saying they play 3 true freshmen a lot. Just shows what good coaches do for players, for a program. Florida again has outstanding coaches....and Tennessee's pretty much just suck, beginning with the head man. Will this nightmare ever end?

 

[volgrad500]

I can speak on the offensive line and you can make up your own mind.

At the end of 2014, dj humphries left for the NFL. Tyler Moore also left early. Florida was down to like 7 lineman for the spring when the worst news possible came. The best returning offensive lineman, rod Johnson was diagnosed with a medical condition and his career was over.

So what was left was, sharpe (a highly rated true soph), trip Thurman (RSR) who has his own injury issues and some thought he would not play this season. Others think his shoulder is a ticking time bomb. Those were the guys who were not going to scare you if they played.

Cam Dillard was thought to be a bust that no one expected to see the field. Riles was a converted defensive lineman moved to create depth. No one thought he would actually ever be asked to play.

There are two or three other guys that returned that don't sniff the field.

Enter ...a transfer from Fordham...yes, Fordham. This guy starts.

Enter in three true freshman who beat out everyone else and are basically the team's only depth.

So, a tackle who was a highly recruited guy expected to play. A serviceable guard with an injury issue. Two guys who were never supposed to see the field at center and the other guard. And a transfer from Fordham who plays tackle (from FCS to SEC mind you) and slides to guard at times. All backed up by three true freshman who play heavily.

So, its up to you to determine if that's what you would want sowing into a season.

Oh, then put a redshirt freshman first year starter at QB behind that line

It's like people simply will not believe this. No matter how many times they are shown actual information, they ignore it.

 

[KBVol]

Let's start with OL...

Everyone of our starting lineman was a 3* player, the only 4* player we have in our two deep is Jack Jones, a true freshman.

David Sharp is a 4*, Trip Thurman is a 4*, Mason Halter is a Two Time All American transfer from Fordham RS Sr.....You have a 5* freshman in Ivey...

Who exactly would you hand pick from our roster to replace your guys with?

Halter came from freaking FCS school Fordham....Fordham. Lol.

 

[vol66]

everybody said our OL would be awful even gators just from inexperience alone

here i found espn's preseason postition rankings

SEC preseason position rankings: offensive line - SEC Blog - ESPN


rb and wr wasnt much better

SEC preseason position rankings: Receivers and tight ends - SEC Blog - ESPN

SEC preseason position rankings: Running back - SEC Blog - ESPN

I will get around to looking at the links you provided, but our o-line, is mostly made up of the same guys from last year who allowed more sacks than any OL in school history and could not run block on air and I'm not exaggerating.

This is utterly ridiculous. Apologies to Marcus Jackson.

If you'd like to say your OL has surpassed your expectations, fair enough.

 

[TheColdVolTruth]

That was a preseason piece....their two deep against us was:

LT: 78 David Sharpe (SO), 73 Martez Ivey (FR)
LG: 63 Trip Thurman (RS SR), 52 Travaris Dorsey (RS FR)
C: 54 Cam Dillard (RS SO), 64 Tyler Jordan (FR)
RG: 71 Antonio Riles (RS SO), 77 Andrew Mike (RS FR)
RT: 75 Mason Halter (SR), 74 Fred Johnson (FR)

All of whom are mentioned in that preseason piece. It just sheds light on how a coach built a pretty solid sec caliber line out of several inexperienced pieces. Maybe they aren't inexperienced based on how many college credits they have earned, but they were inexperienced based on how few sec snaps they had taken.

 

[GRN1926]

Two major differences, UT vs UF, besides the HCs:

UF has a quality AD, and admin support for the program. The results speak for themselves -- count up the SECC and NC since 1990.

No one always makes perfect hires, but UF is quick to correct its errors (see Zook and Muschump). And in Zook's case iirc his last season "failure" had 8 wins.

If Butch wins 8 but Chip Kelly comes available and wants to be at TN then you make that move. Urban was available and they made a move, a smart move that lead to 2 NC's. I don't expect Kelly to be there or anyone of that stature but even if there is I don't think we'd make the move. I have no faith in Hart nor do I have faith in our biggest booster to make that smart of a decision.

 

[vol66]

Halter came from freaking FCS school Fordham....Fordham. Lol.

Laugh all you want, Do you watch the NFL Combine? What kind of bump in the star rating system do you get when you are a two time all american and can walk onto an SEC campus and start day 1?

C'mon MAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

 

[KBVol]

Laugh all you want, Do you watch the NFL Combine? What kind of bump in the star rating system do you get when you are a two time all american and can walk onto an SEC campus and start day 1?

C'mon MAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

Lol.

 

[vol66]

Lol.

Good grief.

 

[Sarms58]

Riles was a converted defensive lineman moved to create depth. No one thought he would actually ever be asked to play.

Yea, we had to do that last year...I believe it was Jashon Robertson who came in as DL but was moved to OL and actually started as a true freshman...

Cam Dillard was thought to be a bust that no one expected to see the field.

Unfortunately, that would describe several of the upperclassmen starting for UT...several of the true freshmen are being rotated in and getting experience but it's painful right now...

Grier did a good job with his feet keeping plays alive...he has a better arm than Dobbs and our DBs aren't even close to the gator DBs so his feet allowed him time to hit receivers...

 

[vol66]

everybody said our OL would be awful even gator fans just from inexperience alone

here i found espn's preseason postition rankings

SEC preseason position rankings: offensive line - SEC Blog - ESPN


rb and wr wasnt much better

SEC preseason position rankings: Receivers and tight ends - SEC Blog - ESPN

SEC preseason position rankings: Running back - SEC Blog - ESPN

Well, the links verify what I thought, what I said...I'll give you that we should have a better WR Corps, would you take Hurd straight up over Taylor is the question? That seems debatable.

Surely, you don't feel the same about the Defense, correct? Maybe Sutton, who else?

 

[vol66]

I would also like to say in our OL's defense, in the two area's that were their weakest last season, giving up sacks and run blocking they have improved much this year and the loss of Jackson really hurts. I'm proud of their effort as a fan and don't want to come off as bashing them.

 

[vol66]

KBV, for you.


Three Vols sign deals after 51-year NFL draft streak ends | Times Free Press

Fordham University Rams Athletics - Three Football Rams Headed to NFL Camps

 

[sjt18]

The Florida two deep has more talent than the UT 2 deep...

So you are saying that even as bad as Muschamp was... he was still a more effective recruiter and developer of talent than Jones?

I disagree... but that's an interesting point you've made.

 

[99gator]

That's even worse than I thought. That's far worse than just saying they play 3 true freshmen a lot. Just shows what good coaches do for players, for a program. Florida again has outstanding coaches....and Tennessee's pretty much just suck, beginning with the head man. Will this nightmare ever end?

I actually forgot the other fun little fact.

Martez Ivey (the 5* people had penciled into the starting lineup) had to have his knee scoped right before the season. So, his first playing time came against Kentucky. You're talking about a guy who was not an early enrollee who basically missed half of fall practice

He has been working his way back slowly and people expect him to start before the year is over.

 

[sjt18]

I HATE the Florida Gators but am fast becoming a fan of McElwain.

 

[Sarms58]

So you are saying that even as bad as Muschamp was... he was still a more effective recruiter and developer of talent than Jones?

I disagree... but that's an interesting point you've made.

That wasn't my point - Muschamp was a better recruiter than Dooley...if our JR and SR classes had the raw talent as our SO and FR classes this team would be winning in spite of what Jones does...

Butch came in in December 2012 and salvaged some of the 2013 class...but some of the kids being recruited by Dooley's staff just weren't SEC caliber players...Jones' classes in 2014 and 2015 have great talent but we definitely still have gaps...he signed a 5 start OL (Richmond) but the kid hasn't played yet so I hope he's not a bust...we need top talent at OL and DB to get this team competitive...

 

[vol66]

I actually forgot the other fun little fact.

Martez Ivey (the 5* people had penciled into the starting lineup) had to have his knee scoped right before the season. So, his first playing time came against Kentucky. You're talking about a guy who was not an early enrollee who basically missed half of fall practice

He has been working his way back slowly and people expect him to start before the year is over.

Hmmm...and last year we awarded a scholarship to former walk on Jacob Gilliam, tore his ACL in the first start of his career, came back to finish the year without the ACL...How's that for depth?

 

[99gator]

Hmmm...and last year we awarded a scholarship to former walk on Jacob Gilliam, tore his ACL in the first start of his career, came back to finish the year without the ACL...How's that for depth?

I, personally, am not ignoring the fact that Tennessee had weaknesses.

However, it was generally agreed that Tennessee had less wrong with them than most of the competition on the schedule.

Many people, I was not one of them, believed they also had an "X" factor.....a superior QB.

We all know "experts" get it wrong from time to time. Hello, Auburn. But, there was a reason people had high expectations for Tennessee.

Heck, before the season a lot of people would have argued that no team in the SEC had a more complete group of personnel at the skill positions. Tennessee did not have questions at QB, RB, and WR. Not many schools could have made that claim.

I get that there are issues. But, that's also where, as someone else has argued, player development comes in. Where are the Tennessee linebackers?

As others have said, i don't think people will be disappointed if Tennessee doesn't win a title. People will be disappointed if this team is 7-5. That's not the leap forward people expected

 

[vol66]

I, personally, am not ignoring the fact that Tennessee had weaknesses.

However, it was generally agreed that Tennessee had less wrong with them than most of the competition on the schedule.

Many people, I was not one of them, believed they also had an "X" factor.....a superior QB.

We all know "experts" get it wrong from time to time. Hello, Auburn. But, there was a reason people had high expectations for Tennessee.

Heck, before the season a lot of people would have argued that no team in the SEC had a more complete group of personnel at the skill positions. Tennessee did not have questions at QB, RB, and WR. Not many schools could have made that claim.

I get that there are issues. But, that's also where, as someone else has argued, player development comes in. Where are the Tennessee linebackers?

As others have said, i don't think people will be disappointed if Tennessee doesn't win a title. People will be disappointed if this team is 7-5. That's not the leap forward people expected

You are asking me to answer for others expectations. I remember listening to the guy, Booger, on Finebaum talking about contending for the East and thinking, "is this guy on crack"?

I think his expectations were based on UGA never winning the big one, a complete lack of respect for Mizzou, an underrating of Stoops at UK and the fact that UF had a new coach. Because nothing about last year's Vols screamed SEC East title.

People have forgotten how bad we were on Offense because of the bowl game playing against a team that didn't want to be there.

People have forgotten the decimated classes which is why we are starting a true freshman or a walk on at MLB, which is the equivalent as QB on the defensive side, which might have been overcome with Maggitt still on the field...but alas...

That's no excuse for losing games we could have won, but an explanation of why expectations were too high for a team with as little EXPERIENCED TALENT as we have.

Reasonable people chalked up OU as a loss, maybe we could catch UF, split with USC and UGA, loss at BAMA, toss up with Mizzou and ARKY and wins over UK and VU...then the Vols led in those games and the wind gets let out of the balloon...big time.

Maybe the UF loss caused us to be flat versus Arky, but they imposed their will and beat us straight up because they are the more physical team. Man handled Derek Barnett, he looked like a human pin ball out there and to his credit he kept coming. That's what we got, that's who we are.

And even after saying ALL of that, we're gonna beat UGA today! GBO!!!

And we ran for over 250 yards against your defense which has been and was expected to be very good. Last year we ran for 28 yards. That's improvement, but nobody cares because we didn't win the game.