McElwain Vs. Butch/Dooley

#51

sjt18

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#51
I didn't know what to make of Butch until this year.

The one thing I will say on Butch's behalf is he at least has upgraded the talent level of the roster.

But, he also has missed out on a golden opportunity for Tennessee.

If Florida has found their guy, then Florida will only get better and the East will not be as easy as it has been.
But... but... but... Jones needs at least 5 years to recruit a roster that can make it to the 2nd tier of the SEC.

Sadly, and I LOATH agreeing with you, you are correct. Jones and more broadly UT missed a wide open window.
 
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#52

sjt18

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#52
McElwain also inherited one of the best defenses in the country. That's no joke. We are barely two years removed from having the worst defense in TN history.
Defense wins championships.
Maybe... but excuses never result in championships. And shouldn't there have been more defensive improvement in year 3?

If UF were a repeat of Mizzou '14 then you'd have a point. But even without good offensive talent, they are producing and playing like they know what they're doing.... even though most of their talent is young.

NOTHING Jones has done at UT to date compares well to what McElwain is doing.
 
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#54

tng8r

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#54
Just gtfo. There are many busy Gator sites for you guys to post to today and lick each other's balls over your win yesterday. Why the f*** are you even here to begin with?
Bitter party of one, your table is ready. Since when are non Vols not allowed on here?!? Get a life dude. It is good to interact and get opinions/reactions from non-bias individuals instead of homers all the time.
 
#55

99gator

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#55
But... but... but... Jones needs at least 5 years to recruit a roster that can make it to the 2nd tier of the SEC.

Sadly, and I LOATH agreeing with you, you are correct. Jones and more broadly UT missed a wide open window.
I want the record to show that I have/had the same standard for Tennessee as I did Florida.

I do think Jones deserves/deserved 3 years to build up the program, get some talent, and prove himself.

I have/had the same thoughts on McElwain. I would not have griped a bit if Florida had the season they were expected to have. I would have been upset to not see gradual improvement over time, particularly from one year to the next. What McElwain is doing, so far, is completely unexpected.
 
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#56
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#56
I want the record to show that I have/had the same standard for Tennessee as I did Florida.

I do think Jones deserves/deserved 3 years to build up the program, get some talent, and prove himself.

I have/had the same thoughts on McElwain. I would not have griped a bit if Florida had the season they were expected to have. I would have been upset to not see gradual improvement over time, particularly from one year to the next. What McElwain is doing, so far, is completed unexpected.
You have higher standards for Tennessee than many people here.
 
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#57

08Vol

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#57
Have a look at the Florida's Football coaches staff. McElwain won a NC with Bama. OC Doug Nussmeier won a NC with Bama as an OC. DC Randy Shannon won a NC with Miami as a DC. See a pattern here.
The sad part is this is what I thought our coordinators' resumes would look like when he talked about "the best staff in America". Didn't think he meant "I'm just bringing all my buddies with me and giving them huge raises"
 
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#58

peppervol

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#58
It is sad but McElwain has achieved much for in his first five games for Florida than Butch and Dooley did in Six years.
He already has 3-0 SEC start which Butch and Dooley never saw.
He has now a win against Top 5 program which neither of our guys did.
He has already beaten two teams which he was not supposed to this season. Which Butch and Dooley only matched (2 SC games) in two seasons.

With Freshmen in Oline, unproven QB, not enough talent on WRs, average RB and good defense, McElwin is out there winning. He is not complaining about 'youth', 'rebuilding process' etc.

I hope Florida goes 5-7 from here on. It just sucks to have our luck. It may be Fulmer's cruse or something man.
With all due respect, that Florida defense is a lot better than just " good ", IMHO. Having said that, we should have never lost that game in the Swamp. YUK-city...
 
#59

99gator

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#59
You have higher standards for Tennessee than many people here.
The thing that complicated things with building these programs back for non-Georgia fans of SEC East schools is that all of us knew that the division stunk and was ripe for the picking. And Georgia seems to Georgia.

All you had to be was average to see results in the win-loss record.

A lot of people thought those South Carolina teams that went 11-2 were pretty good, not great.

So, there was an unspoken pressure to get things going before other schools in the division did and the division no longer stunk.

So part of it is the standard that you want to set in the first place, but the other part of it was reaching that standard before everyone else got their **** together.
 
#60

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#60
The sad part is this is what I thought our coordinators' resumes would look like when he talked about "the best staff in America". Didn't think he meant "I'm just bringing all my buddies with me and giving them huge raises"
Yeah, but everyone has been harping on how Florida's coach is new. That's what you call "the best staff in America". I think Butch thought he'd turn his staff into that. McElwain didn't think that, he went and got the people who did it. He hired guys who knew how to take the talent that was there and turn it into a winning formula. Shannon had to do it with the Canes in 2001 after Butch Davis was fired and if I'm not mistaken they won something like 20 straight.
 
#62

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#62
I forgot about the "Florida found its Dooley".

Like Muschamp wasn't Florida's Dooley
People here thought "he's new and it will take a few years to set up his system". They didn't realize his whole staff have won NC. What they forgot was his staff has done it before! And what MeElwain has done is not overwhelm the younger players with the whole play book. He's found what the kids can do well and then put them in a position to execute all the while teaching them more and more while they get confidence with the system.
 
#63

sjt18

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#63
People here thought "he's new and it will take a few years to set up his system". They didn't realize his whole staff have won NC. What they forgot was his staff has done it before! And what MeElwain has done is not overwhelm the younger players with the whole play book. He's found what the kids can do well and then put them in a position to execute all the while teaching them more and more while they get confidence with the system.
So... pretty much NOT what Jones did?
 
#64

sjt18

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#64
Looking at Jones records vs FBS opponents only: Jones was 6-13 vs teams with a winning record at Cincy. He was 6-11 at CMU. Through last year he was 6-12 at UT.

He had 23 wins at Cincy. The teams he beat totaled 111 wins. IOW's, they avg'd just around 4.8 wins. He had never beaten a ranked team. Only 3 of his 12 Big East wins came against teams with a winning record.

There have always been reasons to be skeptical of Jones' ability to compete at this level.
 
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#65

Roustabout

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#65
It is sad but McElwain has achieved much for in his first five games for Florida than Butch and Dooley did in Six years.
He already has 3-0 SEC start which Butch and Dooley never saw.
He has now a win against Top 5 program which neither of our guys did.
He has already beaten two teams which he was not supposed to this season. Which Butch and Dooley only matched (2 SC games) in two seasons.

With Freshmen in Oline, unproven QB, not enough talent on WRs, average RB and good defense, McElwin is out there winning. He is not complaining about 'youth', 'rebuilding process' etc.

I hope Florida goes 5-7 from here on. It just sucks to have our luck. It may be Fulmer's cruse or something man.
It was also funny watching the Gators stand there and watch the UT players sprint to the other end of the field after the quarter.
 
#66

MrBiggles

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#66
So... pretty much NOT what Jones did?
Exactly! I watch the Presser the other day and Butch said there is a 40 point check list for the QBs. WTH for? Why does the QB need a 40 point checklist? Dobbs is probably running through that 40 points in his head and not reacting. Why can't we keep it simple? That's what McElwain has done.
 
#67

omghulkhands

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#67
Looking at Jones records vs FBS opponents only: Jones was 6-13 vs teams with a winning record at Cincy. He was 6-11 at CMU. Through last year he was 6-12 at UT.

He had 23 wins at Cincy. The teams he beat totaled 111 wins. IOW's, they avg'd just around 4.8 wins. He had never beaten a ranked team. Only 3 of his 12 Big East wins came against teams with a winning record.

There have always been reasons to be skeptical of Jones' ability to compete at this level.
I think evidence like this would be called "conclusive"

Evidence like this would evolve a hypothesis to a theory

You didn't even have to mention the whole "led in every game this year by at least 13 and has a losing record while all other teams that did that are undefeated by comparison"
 
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#68

Boca Vol

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#68
Looking at Jones records vs FBS opponents only: Jones was 6-13 vs teams with a winning record at Cincy. He was 6-11 at CMU. Through last year he was 6-12 at UT.

He had 23 wins at Cincy. The teams he beat totaled 111 wins. IOW's, they avg'd just around 4.8 wins. He had never beaten a ranked team. Only 3 of his 12 Big East wins came against teams with a winning record.

There have always been reasons to be skeptical of Jones' ability to compete at this level.
This...in a nut-shell. Anyone that brought this up 3 years ago was told to "look at his conference championships." Well, look at them. Other than the 1 at CMU they weren't impressive. Anytime half the conference can claim the title...that conference is weak.

Regardless, we're stuck with Butch. Hopefully, he'll drop some of the cliches and coach football. If this team can scrape its way to 6 wins we'll see what he's made of in the bowl game. By that I mean last season the team was fired up to play in a bowl. This season would be a major underachievement and we'll see if they want to be there.
 
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#71

LWSVOL

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#71
It is sad but McElwain has achieved much for in his first five games for Florida than Butch and Dooley did in Six years.
He already has 3-0 SEC start which Butch and Dooley never saw.
He has now a win against Top 5 program which neither of our guys did.
He has already beaten two teams which he was not supposed to this season. Which Butch and Dooley only matched (2 SC games) in two seasons.

With Freshmen in Oline, unproven QB, not enough talent on WRs, average RB and good defense, McElwin is out there winning. He is not complaining about 'youth', 'rebuilding process' etc.

I hope Florida goes 5-7 from here on. It just sucks to have our luck. It may be Fulmer's cruse or something man.
Where do people come up with this? Does anyone check before stating things??

Starters versus Ole Miss

1 - true sophomore
2 - redshirt sophomores
1 - redshirt junior
1 - redshirt senior
 
#72

KBVol

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#72
He's got us ahead of schedule, that's for sure. I didn't expect to see our offense looking this good so quickly.

The pre-season comparisons here between McElwain and Dooley were laughable. Anyone paying attention to Mac's resume knew the guy could coach.

.
Agree. It was ridiculous. All one had to do was look at what he did with Colorado State to know that the guy is a very good coach. We got a lotta guys that just pop off and say stupid stuff on here without ever even looking to see whether or not their initial opinion was even remotely true.
 
#73

AFL2008

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#73
Where do people come up with this? Does anyone check before stating things??

Starters versus Ole Miss

1 - true sophomore
2 - redshirt sophomores
1 - redshirt junior
1 - redshirt senior
A number of Florida fans pointed this out to anyone that would listen on this site and others early in the year. The line didn't have a lot of starts in SEC play, but Sharpe (a true Soph) was immensely talented and played a lot last year. Trip Thurman was obviously very experienced, the only issue with him was health. Riles and Dillard were both 3rd year sophomores and Halter was a RS Sr transfer who was an AA in FCS. Not a bad starting 5, not great, but not bad. The first 3 guys off the bench though are all true freshmen. (Tyler Jordan, Fred Johnson, Martez Ivey).

They've been way ahead of schedule in pass blocking. Run blocking has been weak.
 
#74

DaddyChad

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#74
We'll see. I know several thought Malzahn would be the new gold standard in college football when he went to the Title game his first year. Now Auburn is struggling mightily. Future does look good for UF and Mac has seemed to push the right buttons so far but these things are measured over a longer timetable than a single year. Muschamp looked like a great hire when UF had 11 wins.
 
#75

jwells

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#75
Florida dominated Ole Miss, but they needed a miracle of a play to win against us. We're not as bad as our record, and they aren't as good as theirs.
 

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