Marvin West's take on the situation

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Savannahbayvol

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www.knoxtntoday.com

Somebody will get hurt in Tennessee-NCAA shootout - Knox TN Today

Tennessee and the NCAA are in a shooting war for the first time in the colorful history of the national governing body of college sports. Be sure somebody is going to get hurt. It appears the NCAA has designated the Volunteers as the bad boys of the name, image and likeness movement that is...
www.knoxtntoday.com www.knoxtntoday.com
 
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#2
#2
Savannahbayvol said:
www.knoxtntoday.com

Somebody will get hurt in Tennessee-NCAA shootout - Knox TN Today

Tennessee and the NCAA are in a shooting war for the first time in the colorful history of the national governing body of college sports. Be sure somebody is going to get hurt. It appears the NCAA has designated the Volunteers as the bad boys of the name, image and likeness movement that is...
www.knoxtntoday.com www.knoxtntoday.com
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For those that want a quick synopsis of the UT vs NCAA, this article is a must read. Thank you OP for sharing.
 
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#3
#3
Mr. West is always balanced, succinct, and the view of a fan at heart. With any article, he takes the black and white medium of writing and paints a color picture. I found it entertaining that he did not capitalize "federal court". Though usage and grammar allow questionable standards for this presentation, it reflects my disdain for most functions of high level government.
 
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#4
#4
The use of a private plane to bring Nico to Knoxville does create a bit of a gray area as to was it a recruiting visit or a visit to Spyre. But even if it was a violation it is not major. But since it is a gray area those usually don't fair well when prosecuting a case in court.
 
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#5
#5
OrangeBeachVol said:
The use of a private plane to bring Nico to Knoxville does create a bit of a gray area as to was it a recruiting visit or a visit to Spyre. But even if it was a violation it is not major. But since it is a gray area those usually don't fair well when prosecuting a case in court.
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It appears everyone is assuming the trip to Spyre was a "recruiting visit". It was not. This was not a case of a recruit being flown in to see Spyre. This is a case of a potential Spyre client being flown in to meet with Spyre. That is how this will play out in the courts. It is my understanding that there were two NIL rules in place when the visit occurred. The first, the contract with Spyre cannot be contingent upon the Spyre client signing with any particular school. The second, a school cannot coordinate with Spyre to "recruit" or sign the client. Nothing unstated can neither be implied or enforced. It is a very simple issue.
 
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#6
#6
I thought i heard today that California has laws similar to Missouri that allows payments and other benefits at the high school levels (not 100% sure on the rules). If that was the case and he signed with Spyre how is this a violation.
The NCAA has created a mess and now wants to flex but appears to be stuck on this one.
 
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#8
#8
OrangeBeachVol said:
The use of a private plane to bring Nico to Knoxville does create a bit of a gray area as to was it a recruiting visit or a visit to Spyre. But even if it was a violation it is not major. But since it is a gray area those usually don't fair well when prosecuting a case in court.
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What you are asserting is that every time a person with college eligibility meets with a marketing group, it creates a "gray area". Geographic location and mode of transportation are irrelevant. That was exactly the case prior to NIL. Since NIL, that is no longer the case. The Supreme Courts says so 9-0 and think about how many times they ever agree on anything 9-0. Nothing gray about it. Nico flew to Knoxville on a private jet (not owned by the University of Tennessee or anyone working for the University of Tennessee) to meet with a marketing company that is in no legal way associated with the University of Tennessee, for the purposes of coming to an agreement on representation by a marketing company that is in no legal way related to the University of Tennessee. Any other interpretation is simply lacking in reality. It does not matter that everyone working for the marketing company likes or donates to the University of Tennessee. The 2 NIL rules in place at the time were never violated. People should put away their "jump to conclusion" mats.
 
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#9
#9
I was told, right or wrong, I have no idea. The plane that was used was supposedly owned by a donor, who happens to also lease his plane to people. Sprye leased the plane and made payment to donor in order to conduct Sprye business. Again, I have NO IDEA if this is factual.
 
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#10
#10
OrangeBeachVol said:
The use of a private plane to bring Nico to Knoxville does create a bit of a gray area as to was it a recruiting visit or a visit to Spyre. But even if it was a violation it is not major. But since it is a gray area those usually don't fair well when prosecuting a case in court.
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No there is no gray area. Spyre is a private business. Not boosters. There is no violation committed because there was no rules against it.
 
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#11
#11
Sara Clark said:
I was told, right or wrong, I have no idea. The plane that was used was supposedly owned by a donor, who happens to also lease his plane to people. Sprye leased the plane and made payment to donor in order to conduct Sprye business. Again, I have NO IDEA if this is factual.
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Even if it is, no violation.
 
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#14
#14
sigmundoooz said:
What you are asserting is that every time a person with college eligibility meets with a marketing group, it creates a "gray area". Geographic location and mode of transportation are irrelevant. That was exactly the case prior to NIL. Since NIL, that is no longer the case. The Supreme Courts says so 9-0 and think about how many times they ever agree on anything 9-0. Nothing gray about it. Nico flew to Knoxville on a private jet (not owned by the University of Tennessee or anyone working for the University of Tennessee) to meet with a marketing company that is in no legal way associated with the University of Tennessee, for the purposes of coming to an agreement on representation by a marketing company that is in no legal way related to the University of Tennessee. Any other interpretation is simply lacking in reality. It does not matter that everyone working for the marketing company likes or donates to the University of Tennessee. The 2 NIL rules in place at the time were never violated. People should put away their "jump to conclusion" mats.
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I think the issue is that while he was in Knoxville, he also took an "unofficial visit" to UT.

NCAA rules have always stated that boosters cannot provide transportation for "unofficial visits" and that travel is up to the player for those.

Did the booster clearly donate the plane ride for the Spyre trip? Can Spyre prove that?

I'm not trying to fight the NCAA case here but I THINK that's part of the accusation, similar to the FSU "you drove him to see the collective and you can't do that."

I'm hoping there's a clear paper trail where the booster was contacted BY SPYRE to provide the flight and not by UT to provide the flight.

Again, just trying to figure out for myself what the NCAA might be trying because any NIL related BS is not going anywhere but an old fashioned "recruiting" issue might have tiny legs.
 
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#15
#15
Savannahbayvol said:
www.knoxtntoday.com

Somebody will get hurt in Tennessee-NCAA shootout - Knox TN Today

Tennessee and the NCAA are in a shooting war for the first time in the colorful history of the national governing body of college sports. Be sure somebody is going to get hurt. It appears the NCAA has designated the Volunteers as the bad boys of the name, image and likeness movement that is...
www.knoxtntoday.com www.knoxtntoday.com
Click to expand...

Siler and West were the faces of the News Sentinel sports section for many years.
 
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#16
#16
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I think the issue is that while he was in Knoxville, he also took an "unofficial visit" to UT.

NCAA rules have always stated that boosters cannot provide transportation for "unofficial visits" and that travel is up to the player for those.

Did the booster clearly donate the plane ride for the Spyre trip? Can Spyre prove that?

I'm not trying to fight the NCAA case here but I THINK that's part of the accusation, similar to the FSU "you drove him to see the collective and you can't do that."

I'm hoping there's a clear paper trail where the booster was contacted BY SPYRE to provide the flight and not by UT to provide the flight.

Again, just trying to figure out for myself what the NCAA might be trying because any NIL related BS is not going anywhere but an old fashioned "recruiting" issue might have tiny legs.
Click to expand...
The NCAA enacted in their bylaws the basic principle of "guilty until proven innocent". That is the only leg they have to stand on and that leg will be knocked out from under them with a battering ram by the courts since this is going to play out in the courts and the basic principle to our entire system of justice is "innocent until proven guilty". The whole idea of "booster" is both antiquated and undefinable with the NIL rules as the NCAA defined them back in 2021. If you take the "30,000 foot view" of all of this, there is no discernable difference between, fan, donor, and booster. The only difference that can be defined based on the NCAA NIL rules is between, fan, donor, and booster on one hand and employee or contracted representative of the university on the other. Think of it this way, I am a long time Volunteer fan, for that matter a booster since I have given the university money from time to time. I now live in Colorado. I also attend baseball games at Northern Colorado and have season tickets to Colorado State Football games. If I were to drive a high school kid to a marketing firm to discuss an NIL deal, would Colorado State, Northern Colorado and the University of Tennessee all have committed an NIL or recruiting violation? That is what the NCAA is trying to say about Tennessee in the Nico Jetgate case. That is my amateur opinion.
 
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#17
#17
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I think the issue is that while he was in Knoxville, he also took an "unofficial visit" to UT.

NCAA rules have always stated that boosters cannot provide transportation for "unofficial visits" and that travel is up to the player for those.

Did the booster clearly donate the plane ride for the Spyre trip? Can Spyre prove that?

I'm not trying to fight the NCAA case here but I THINK that's part of the accusation, similar to the FSU "you drove him to see the collective and you can't do that."

I'm hoping there's a clear paper trail where the booster was contacted BY SPYRE to provide the flight and not by UT to provide the flight.

Again, just trying to figure out for myself what the NCAA might be trying because any NIL related BS is not going anywhere but an old fashioned "recruiting" issue might have tiny legs.
Click to expand...

Yes that is what I read about it also. I used the term 'gray area' but should have been more specific in my post I guess. Thanks for clarifying.
 
#18
#18
sigmundoooz said:
The NCAA enacted in their bylaws the basic principle of "guilty until proven innocent". That is the only leg they have to stand on and that leg will be knocked out from under them with a battering ram by the courts since this is going to play out in the courts and the basic principle to our entire system of justice is "innocent until proven guilty". The whole idea of "booster" is both antiquated and undefinable with the NIL rules as the NCAA defined them back in 2021. If you take the "30,000 foot view" of all of this, there is no discernable difference between, fan, donor, and booster. The only difference that can be defined based on the NCAA NIL rules is between, fan, donor, and booster on one hand and employee or contracted representative of the university on the other. Think of it this way, I am a long time Volunteer fan, for that matter a booster since I have given the university money from time to time. I now live in Colorado. I also attend baseball games at Northern Colorado and have season tickets to Colorado State Football games. If I were to drive a high school kid to a marketing firm to discuss an NIL deal, would Colorado State, Northern Colorado and the University of Tennessee all have committed an NIL or recruiting violation? That is what the NCAA is trying to say about Tennessee in the Nico Jetgate case. That is my amateur opinion.
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I'm right there with you when it comes to NCAA "definitions" of who is who.

One thing I trust is that UT football does a lot of unofficial visits and has a staff that knows how things should go. I don't think they intentionally thumbed their nose at the NCAA. I've seen someone say "they asked the NCAA about this and never got a response" but none of this is more than "heresay."

My faith is with the team that coordinates our recruiting, the visits, etc. Realistically, UT knows we're in danger of a "repeat offender" charge and I doubt we've been flirting with the line very often.

Nico, however, was not an average recruit and I can imagine both UT and Spyre wanted him to sign very badly. Things MAY have happened because Nico was a very big "get" for Spyre and UT.
 
#23
#23
OrangeBeachVol said:
Yes that is what I read about it also. I used the term 'gray area' but should have been more specific in my post I guess. Thanks for clarifying.
Click to expand...

Perceptions also add to the "gray area".

The following may be true - a potential recruit was flown by a collective that has NIL contracts associated with athletes at a university in Knoxville. While in Knoxville, he took an unofficial visit to that university in Knoxville. The plane that flew him here may be owned by a booster that contributes to that university. The collective in question typically supports NIL contracts for the student athletes at that university in Knoxville.

You could substitute Athens, Gainsville, Baton Rouge, etc. etc. in the above. May not be a violation per NIL, but the perception of the intent of that visit is there, which is where the gray area is very bright gray.

This undoubtedly will be a court case that will test out the limits of the NIL and recruiting rules. Looking as this based on what I have read - Tennessee is using the way NIL has been implemented as an argument against what would have been a recruiting violation prior to NIL. The NCAA is using Tennessee, and maybe others, to tighten this up. I'm not a lawyer but I feel this could go either way, which is probably why both sides are trying to play it out in the court of public opinion. If he had not made an unofficial visit to UT while in Knoxville and the trip had been only the NIL discussion, no problem, but he did.
 
#24
#24
OrangeBeachVol said:
The use of a private plane to bring Nico to Knoxville does create a bit of a gray area as to was it a recruiting visit or a visit to Spyre. But even if it was a violation it is not major. But since it is a gray area those usually don't fair well when prosecuting a case in court. Spyre , not the University of Tennessee d they can provide any mode of transportation they chose.
Click to expand...
 
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