manning and garner

#1
thagodfather

thagodfather

baseball juggernaut
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#1
i have stated before and i believe now more than ever that p. manning and rodney garner should be credited with the successful portion of cpf's career. those two guys were instrumental in bringing to ut the players that won the 1998 national championship for the vols. the talent level and the program has been on a down hill slide since garner left for georgia and his players went to the nfl. peyton didn't recruit but his name made recruiting a bit easier, coaches for ut have stated as such. bottom line here is, cpf's career and high winning percentage is basically a sham.
 
#2
#2
garner yeah for recruiting i can see that one argument, but manning's only there for 4 years....that leaves out bunch of good seasons with shuler and martin...
 
#3
#3
i agree that those 2 had huge impacts. If fornothing else Garner robbed great players straight out of Georgia. I.E. Deon Grant, Fred White & Jamal Lewis. Mark Richt gets credit for locking down the GA borders but that is much due to Rodneys recruiting skills
 
#4
#4
TrueOrange said:
garner yeah for recruiting i can see that one argument, but manning's only there for 4 years....that leaves out bunch of good seasons with shuler and martin...
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At the time, Manning was the winningest QB ever. Those four years really helped Phil's resume.
 
#5
#5
kptvol said:
At the time, Manning was the winningest QB ever. Those four years really helped Phil's resume.
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yes, and manning accounts for like 40 out of 150 wins...i know manning was amazing and did a great job and i like him and all, but that's not enough to stand on a soap box and claim that fulmer is a sham and that he's really the worst coach ever who ended up et all
 
#6
#6
DeepSpringsVol said:
i agree that those 2 had huge impacts. If fornothing else Garner robbed great players straight out of Georgia. I.E. Deon Grant, Fred White & Jamal Lewis. Mark Richt gets credit for locking down the GA borders but that is much due to Rodneys recruiting skills
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if garner had stayed at ut, richt wouldn't have been able to lock down anything. garner held the keys to the georgia border.
 
#7
#7
TrueOrange said:
yes, and manning accounts for like 40 out of 150 wins...i know manning was amazing and did a great job and i like him and all, but that's not enough to stand on a soap box and claim that fulmer is a sham and that he's really the worst coach ever who ended up et all
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40 out of 150 is a huge percentage. also, ut coaches used his name while recruiting and that helped tremendously. cpf himself admitted that.
 
#8
#8
TrueOrange said:
garner yeah for recruiting i can see that one argument, but manning's only there for 4 years....that leaves out bunch of good seasons with shuler and martin...
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1 good season with shuler, not exactly a bunch. 2 good seasons with martin proves my point about garner.
 
#9
#9
thagodfather said:
those two guys were instrumental in bringing to ut the players that won the 1998 national championship for the vols.
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True to some extent, but keep in mind that any player that came to Tennessee due to Manning or Garner would have been a Freshman or Sophmore at the oldest in 1998. They had an impact for sure, but they didn't fill the roster singlehandedly either.
 
#10
#10
GAVol said:
True to some extent, but keep in mind that any player that came to Tennessee due to Manning or Garner would have been a Freshman or Sophmore at the oldest in 1998. They had an impact for sure, but they didn't fill the roster singlehandedly either.
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your right, d.grant, fred white, raynoch thompson, and others, had nothing to do with our national championship.
 
#11
#11
Let's remember that when Garner was stealing top talent out of Georgia for UT, UT was a big dog in the conference and beating georgia just about every year. We dominated georgia for about 10 years. Then Garner left, georgia got its act together (sort of) with Richt, and now it's much harder recruiting that and other states. The issue isn't that UT doesn't have Garner anymore; whenever you lose a dynamic recruiter, you HAVE To find another right away. Fulmer didn't do that--it was years before he got round to hiring Taylor, and he didn't stay long himself. The Vols ALWAYS need to have a couple of dynamic youngish African American coaches/recruiters on staff--that is ESSENTIAL.

What killed UT and Fulmer was the Sanders hire--that's when it all started going down hill. Sanders didn't know what he was doing--and neither does Clawson. Cut put some air back in the sails of the offense for a year or two--but when he left Fulmer picked the wrong guy to replace him--and by then some weak recruiting classes were starting to take a toll. We have no freakin' speed on offense except Jones. Everybody in American has got two/three scatbacks on their teams--often fairly small kids--while we're still trying to play 1980s big ten football and it's not working.
 
#12
#12
armchairvol said:
Let's remember that when Garner was stealing top talent out of Georgia for UT, UT was a big dog in the conference and beating georgia just about every year. We dominated georgia for about 10 years. Then Garner left, georgia got its act together (sort of) with Richt, and now it's much harder recruiting that and other states. The issue isn't that UT doesn't have Garner anymore; whenever you lose a dynamic recruiter, you HAVE To find another right away. Fulmer didn't do that--it was years before he got round to hiring Taylor, and he didn't stay long himself. The Vols ALWAYS need to have a couple of dynamic youngish African American coaches/recruiters on staff--that is ESSENTIAL.

What killed UT and Fulmer was the Sanders hire--that's when it all started going down hill. Sanders didn't know what he was doing--and neither does Clawson. Cut put some air back in the sails of the offense for a year or two--but when he left Fulmer picked the wrong guy to replace him--and by then some weak recruiting classes were starting to take a toll. We have no freakin' speed on offense except Jones. Everybody in American has got two/three scatbacks on their teams--often fairly small kids--while we're still trying to play 1980s big ten football and it's not working.
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rodney garner > trooper taylor, sanders > clawson, cutcliffe > sanders, gruden > fulmer, thagodfather's posts > armchairvol's posts.
 
#13
#13
How can you call Fulmer a sham? Did he not do what he was supposed to do? Win! Yes, he had one the best QBs and recruiters in these 2. How many large corporations are doing what they do totally because of their CEO? It takes the whole team! Fulmer may have been fortunate to have a great team of players and coaches.

I think calling his record a sham is complete BS! Why is it, when the Vols were on top....none of that was anything Fulmer did. Now that things are not great....it is all CPF's fault? IMO, it is ridiculous to say he won because of this or because of that. Now that he is not winning it is ALL his fault.

Sorry guys....had to get on my soap box for this one. You cannot blame winning on everything but Fulmer and then blame losing on nothing but Fulmer!!
 
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#14
#14
footballref said:
You cannot blame winning on everything but Fulmer and then blame losing on nothing but Fulmer!!
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ok, fulmer made a great decision to hire garner. now, he's included with garner in the winning. fulmer made bad hires in clawson and sanders. now, clawson and sanders are included with fulmer in the losing. happy now?
 
#15
#15
Fulmer's record is HIS record. 50 years from now, we won't know who Garner, Clawson, Sanders, and Cutcliffe are. Fulmer's name and record will always be there. Yes, I am being sarcastic when I say we won't know who those guys are. I think you know what I mean.
 
#17
#17
GAVol said:
True to some extent, but keep in mind that any player that came to Tennessee due to Manning or Garner would have been a Freshman or Sophmore at the oldest in 1998. They had an impact for sure, but they didn't fill the roster singlehandedly either.
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sort of. Players would have came to TN because of what Peyton had done, but you have to believe as highly touted as Peyton was and how successful his freshman campaign was that he brought players in that would have been juniors and seniors in '98 as well.

-also please bear in mind who is making this statement. I think that says a lot.
 
#18
#18
I'm not denying that they had a huge role in bringing in talent. I just think the whole business of minimizing anything Fulmer may have accomplished is nothing more than a way of people trying to further convince themselves that forcing him out is the right thing to do.
 
#19
#19
GAVol said:
I'm not denying that they had a huge role in bringing in talent. I just think the whole business of minimizing anything Fulmer may have accomplished is nothing more than a way of people trying to further convince themselves that forcing him out is the right thing to do.
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i agree completely. While Cutcliffe was a huge factor, it was Fulmer in charge when Manning chose to come to Knoxville and shunned Oxford.
 
#21
#21
GAVol said:
I'm not denying that they had a huge role in bringing in talent. I just think the whole business of minimizing anything Fulmer may have accomplished is nothing more than a way of people trying to further convince themselves that forcing him out is the right thing to do.
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Yesterday's results are all the proof anyone would need to end any remotely intelligent debate about the wisdom of the decision to jettison Fulmer.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#22
#22
GAVol said:
I'm not denying that they had a huge role in bringing in talent. I just think the whole business of minimizing anything Fulmer may have accomplished is nothing more than a way of people trying to further convince themselves that forcing him out is the right thing to do.
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Mike Hamilton should send out a highlight reel of this season to every donor. That way, no one will need convincing.
 
#23
#23
hatvol96 said:
Yesterday's results are all the proof anyone would need to end any remotely intelligent debate about the wisdom of the decision to jettison Fulmer.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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I agree. The past several years offer plenty of evidence without resorting to some convoluted attempt at minimizing the 90's.
 
#24
#24
hatvol96 said:
Yesterday's results are all the proof anyone would need to end any remotely intelligent debate about the wisdom of the decision to jettison Fulmer.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Good point. You beat me to it. I was feeling good about the whole situation. Now I wish he hadn't come back to finish out the season.
 
#25
#25
kptvol said:
Good point. You beat me to it. I was feeling good about the whole situation. Now I wish he hadn't come back to finish out the season.
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Not that it matters, but I still don't really understand why they didn't wait for the off week to do the deed. I guess the pressure just became too great.
 
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