Low tier bowls be gone

#101
#101
TNHopeful505 said:
I mean, I get what you're saying. But no. I have no interest in watching Ball State and Georgia State.

BUT, I don't. I don't watch it. But was I interested in watching UCF beat Florida? Yup.

Bowls are about matchups that you wouldn't normally see during the season. It's not cupcake vs. cupcake, it's (supposedly) two teams who have won enough to deserve to be there.

Bowls can be some of the best football of the year. But I get not being excited about playing in the Duke's Mayo Bowl. Something with a little less sponsorship would be great.
Click to expand...
French's Mustard Bowl of bust, baby...
 
#102
#102
GAVol said:
The participation trophy argument is hollow to me since it's been literally 40 years since a bowl was a true accomplishment. 6 and 7 win teams have been making bowl games due to economics and politics since bowl games started proliferating in the 80s.
Click to expand...
I just wanted to isolate your central point.

It hasn't been 40 years since getting to a bowl was an accomplishment.

Sure, 40 years ago, when I was in college, there were only 15 bowl games (vice the 44 we have this year, three times as many). You more or less had to be in the Top 25 (or knocking on the door of it) to get an invite.

But fast forward another 15 years, to 1996: still only 18 bowls.

Then the slow-motion explosion. From 18 to 25 bowls just four years later, in 2000. 28 in 2005. 35 in 2010. 41 in 2015.

This is a relatively recent thing, this having so many bowls you have to select 6-6 and even some 5-7 teams. Most of the explosive growth happened in the past 20-25 years.

Most folks on these boards were following college football 25 years ago. It's not like we don't remember how things used to be.

Imagine if we had just 18 bowls today. Rather than 44. Would it feel like an accomplishment to be invited to one of them? I think it absolutely would. Not a participation trophy, a true accomplishment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jonnon111, SoddyAllVol, Woodlawn VOL and 2 others
#103
#103
VFL-82-JP said:
I just wanted to isolate your central point.

It hasn't been 40 years since getting to a bowl was an accomplishment.

Sure, 40 years ago, when I was in college, there were only 15 bowl games (vice the 44 we have this year, three times as many). You more or less had to be in the Top 25 (or knocking on the door of it) to get an invite.

But fast forward another 15 years, to 1996: still only 18 bowls.

Then the slow-motion explosion. From 18 to 25 bowls just four years later, in 2000. 28 in 2005. 35 in 2010. 41 in 2015.

This is a relatively recent thing, this having so many bowls you have to select 6-6 and even some 5-7 teams. Most of the explosive growth happened in the past 20-25 years.

Most folks on these boards were following college football 25 years ago. It's not like we don't remember how things used to be.

Imagine if we had just 18 bowls today. Rather than 44. Would it feel like an accomplishment to be invited to one of them? I think it absolutely would. Not a participation trophy, a true accomplishment.
Click to expand...
I can think of a Bluebonnet, a Peach and a Liberty Bowl in the 80s where we were either 6-5 or 7-4 going in. The notion that only the “most deserving” got a bowl game back in the day is romanticized. The bowl system has always been about money and politics. The tie ins have reduced it a little, but back in the day it was equal parts of how good you are, how well you travel and what kind of ratings you bring.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyvol77 and VFL-82-JP
#104
#104
GAVol said:
I can think of a Bluebonnet, a Peach and a Liberty Bowl in the 80s where we were either 6-5 or 7-4 going in. The notion that only the “most deserving” got a bowl game back in the day is romanticized. The bowl system has always been about money and politics. The tie ins have reduced it a little, but back in the day it was equal parts of how good you are, how well you travel and what kind of ratings you bring.
Click to expand...

I think you'll agree that if you plot a graph showing all the teams in FBS by how many games they won, you'll get, roughly speaking, a bell curve. Very few teams go 12-0 in the regular season, and very few go 0-12, but a whole lot go 5-7, 6-6, or 7-5. Right?

Keeping that in mind, in 1996--just 25 years ago--36 teams were invited to 18 bowls out of the 111 teams in Division I-A at the time. That's 32% of the total. A bit less than a third.

The area under a bell curve for 32% looks about like this:

1640814722241.png

This year, 2021, there were 44 scheduled bowls. That means 88 teams, of the 130 total, got invites (we won't muddy the water by adding in teams who got invites after other teams backed out for covid-19 reasons). 88 of 130 is 68%.

68% of the teams looks like this in a bell curve:

1640814682306.png

I think you'd have to agree that the first group looks a heckuva lot more exclusive and "rewarding" to be invited to join than the last.

Sure, how a team's fan base travels and how much pull it has behind the scenes plays a part. Always has, always will. And I'm not saying you had to be elite to get invited. It was more widespread than that. You only had to be one of the "better" teams in the country, not one of the "best".

Nonetheless, the bowls, being invited to a bowl, simply used to mean much more. As recently as 25 years ago.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SayUWantAreVOLution
#105
#105
SoddyAllVol said:
I know it’s highly unlikely because these games are all about the TV and sponsorship money…but what if a team had to win 8 games to be bowl eligible? It would save us the torture of these bojangles cheddar bo biscuit bowls and the like. Plus it would make the bowls mean more and maybe kids wouldn’t elect to sit out. Just a thought
Click to expand...
Who forces you to watch any of the bowls that torture you?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyvol77
#108
#108
I gotta disagree with OP on this one. I actually enjoy the passion and less coverage of bowls leading up to the playoffs. I’m good with a trip to Bahamas or Hawaii bowls. Some fun games last couple weeks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stonesk and SpaceCoastVol
#109
#109
SoddyAllVol said:
I had no idea people cared so deeply for the elders ace of jasper bowl and the like.
Click to expand...
Strawmen much? It not that anyone “cares deeply” as much as you complaining about something that’s really not that big a deal. You don’t have to watch any game you don’t want to so why do you care so much
 
  • Like
Reactions: 87&91ALUM
#110
#110
Rickyvol77 said:
Strawmen much? It not that anyone “cares deeply” as much as you complaining about something that’s really not that big a deal. You don’t have to watch any game you don’t want to so why do you care so much
Click to expand...
Ricky, I won't deign to answer for SoddyAll, but I suspect he's just having a conversation about something he finds interesting. Just like you and me. If we didn't find it interesting, we wouldn't keep discussing, right?

Now, he and you seem to have opposite views on the subject. That doesn't make him evil, or you evil. It doesn't even necessarily mean either of you is wrong. It's possible the matter could just as "correctly" go either way, and we're all simply explaining our druthers.

It's a fan message board. We're gonna do that, have discussions. I hope we're all enjoying them (I am), and maybe learning something here and there (I am), or why keep coming back to it. Right?

I personally have the most fun when I find myself at odds with people I respect, like Vollygirl and GAVol. Because I respect them, I find myself spending more time pondering their words, thinking about it more deeply and pushing myself to do research to see where I might have things right, or wrong. Explaining my own points helps me learn, too.

So, I don't know if I'd accuse SoddyAll of strawmanning and complaining and caring too much. He's just a fella like you and me. His perspective simply does not align with yours on this issue.

Go Vols!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyvol77 and SoddyAllVol
#112
#112
Rickyvol77 said:
Strawmen much? It not that anyone “cares deeply” as much as you complaining about something that’s really not that big a deal. You don’t have to watch any game you don’t want to so why do you care so much
Click to expand...
Seeing as how this is a message board for posting thoughts asking questions etc. I figured I would put an opinion out there and get peoples thoughts. No need to get upset Ricky
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyvol77
#113
#113
VFL-82-JP said:
Ricky, I won't deign to answer for SoddyAll, but I suspect he's just having a conversation about something he finds interesting. Just like you and me. If we didn't find it interesting, we wouldn't keep discussing, right?

Now, he and you seem to have opposite views on the subject. That doesn't make him evil, or you evil. It doesn't even necessarily mean either of you is wrong. It's possible the matter could just as "correctly" go either way, and we're all simply explaining our druthers.

It's a fan message board. We're gonna do that, have discussions. I hope we're all enjoying them (I am), and maybe learning something here and there (I am), or why keep coming back to it. Right?

I personally have the most fun when I find myself at odds with people I respect, like Vollygirl and GAVol. Because I respect them, I find myself spending more time pondering their words, thinking about it more deeply and pushing myself to do research to see where I might have things right, or wrong. Explaining my own points helps me learn, too.

So, I don't know if I'd accuse SoddyAll of strawmanning and complaining and caring too much. He's just a fella like you and me. His perspective simply does not align with yours on this issue.

Go Vols!
Click to expand...
Thank you. At least two of us have a little sense
 
#116
#116
  • Like
Reactions: VFL-82-JP and SoddyAllVol
#119
#119
GAVol said:
Explain that one to me. How is Disney pulling a fast one? People obviously want to see the games.
Click to expand...
They whip the interest. As someone has shown above, the bowls have exploded and 3/4 of them are ESPN bowls.

They've created a cash cow of bowls, they promote the hell out of them as "must see" and people bite.

It's manipulation of the market just like other media creates a "story" and pumps it as "important" and then reaps the clicks and money from the news ads and news shows. Media manipulation...... but sure..... "I wanted to learn about that so I watched XXXXXX news show he was doing about it."
 
  • Like
Reactions: SoddyAllVol
#120
#120
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
They whip the interest. As someone has shown above, the bowls have exploded and 3/4 of them are ESPN bowls.

They've created a cash cow of bowls, they promote the hell out of them as "must see" and people bite.

It's manipulation of the market just like other media creates a "story" and pumps it as "important" and then reaps the clicks and money from the news ads and news shows. Media manipulation...... but sure..... "I wanted to learn about that so I watched XXXXXX news show he was doing about it."
Click to expand...
Not anything different than Olympics, MLB, and other ESPN broadcasts. I would like to see them cover baseball, womens sports, and high school sports in more depth. NBC, CBS, and ABC push their programs on us as well. Don’t like it? Don’t watch it.
 
#122
#122
87&91ALUM said:
Not anything different than Olympics, MLB, and other ESPN broadcasts. I would like to see them cover baseball, womens sports, and high school sports in more depth. NBC, CBS, and ABC push their programs on us as well. Don’t like it? Don’t watch it.
Click to expand...
I watch some and enjoy them. I dislike the ESPN near monopoly and huge financial gain from the manipulation.

I know it is exactly what ?NBC? does with much of the Olympics. Does anyone REALLY want to watch synchronized ribbon dancing or whatever they call it....... not until it's pimped as a "graceful, moving, mixture of ballet and floor gymnastics" or some kinda BS.

It's the same with the New Mexico bowl or whatever. A bowl to just "fit in there" and people will watch more out of "who the heck are these teams and maybe it'll be close....." than anything else.

I dislike the control ESPN obviously has over the future of college football. I SERIOUSLY doubt their intentions and I'm convinced they'll hasten the change to a pro league, which they very well may control/own.

It's not something I think is controllable but it's more I feel we should see clearly what's driven bowls to the point where there are so many.
 
#123
#123
SoddyAllVol said:
I know it’s highly unlikely because these games are all about the TV and sponsorship money…but what if a team had to win 8 games to be bowl eligible? It would save us the torture of these bojangles cheddar bo biscuit bowls and the like. Plus it would make the bowls mean more and maybe kids wouldn’t elect to sit out. Just a thought
Click to expand...


They means teams would go back to scheduling multiple cupcake FCS schools because they want the best chance to win 8 games and get that extra money and exposure.
 
#124
#124
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I watch some and enjoy them. I dislike the ESPN near monopoly and huge financial gain from the manipulation.

I know it is exactly what ?NBC? does with much of the Olympics. Does anyone REALLY want to watch synchronized ribbon dancing or whatever they call it....... not until it's pimped as a "graceful, moving, mixture of ballet and floor gymnastics" or some kinda BS.

It's the same with the New Mexico bowl or whatever. A bowl to just "fit in there" and people will watch more out of "who the heck are these teams and maybe it'll be close....." than anything else.

I dislike the control ESPN obviously has over the future of college football. I SERIOUSLY doubt their intentions and I'm convinced they'll hasten the change to a pro league, which they very well may control/own.

It's not something I think is controllable but it's more I feel we should see clearly what's driven bowls to the point where there are so many.
Click to expand...

I’m not as big a fan of ESPN as I used to be because they’ve changed their programming the last 20 years. But…it’s called capitalism.

They pay for the rights of games, and many, many UT fans will tune in tomorrow because ESPN broadcasts the game. They paid for it, and they will reap the benefits. Kind of how that works.

If CBS or Fox wanted to pay for it, they would broadcast it instead. But they don’t.
 
#125
#125
VolGee4 said:
I’m not as big a fan of ESPN as I used to be because they’ve changed their programming the last 20 years. But…it’s called capitalism.

They pay for the rights of games, and many, many UT fans will tune in tomorrow because ESPN broadcasts the game. They paid for it, and they will reap the benefits. Kind of how that works.

If CBS or Fox wanted to pay for it, they would broadcast it instead. But they don’t.
Click to expand...
Lots of fans watched lots of games, me included, that I had marginal, at best, interest in.

Part of why I found myself watching is what has been expressed here by many "I hate that the season is ending so I need to watch all I can." I'm as guilty as anyone of this but I dislike being manipulated and I like to remain aware that I'm being played with a metric $#it ton of ads for "bowl mania."

I'm NOT arrogant enough to think I'm not swayed by the continual ads and hype.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top