Let's Talk O-Line

#28

tennrich1

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#28
Yea, how does Chaney correct this? I understand many think he can do most anything, but he can't make a guy think or react because he can't get into his head. Only the player himself can exercise his self discipline (if he has any) and react as he should.[/QUOTE
The one who struggled with it most will not play for the Orange this year so that MIGHT help. It’s just a matter of discipline, concentration and confidence IMO.
 
#31

KBVol

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#31
Responsibility doesn’t fall solely on the OL. Y’all get that right? Yes we want deep trenches, but the guys around them gotta do their jobs at an elite level to be an elite team. Period.
I think you have it backwards. We have decent to good skill players on offense, but they’re hampered greatly if the Oline doesn’t do its job.....which it very, very seldom ever did last year. Hell, most of the OLs Dobbs played behind was awful too, he just masked it oftentimes because he was an elite, and I do mean elite running college qb.
 
#33

Johnnyreb#VFL

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#33
I think you have it backwards. We have decent to good skill players on offense, but they’re hampered greatly if the Oline doesn’t do its job.....which it very, very seldom ever did last year. Hell, most of the OLs Dobbs played behind was awful too, he just masked it oftentimes because he was an elite, and I do mean elite running college qb.
True but if we don’t have elite skill players, it doesn’t matter how good our line is. And I’m using the word “elite” for a reason, speed, can create, powerful, elusive... a lot of pac 12 and big ten teams have good lines, but every time they face an SEC opponent, players can’t get loose or they can’t contain, so they lose. Due to the open field elite position players I’m talking about
 
#35
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#35
I think you have it backwards. We have decent to good skill players on offense, but they’re hampered greatly if the Oline doesn’t do its job.....which it very, very seldom ever did last year. Hell, most of the OLs Dobbs played behind was awful too, he just masked it oftentimes because he was an elite, and I do mean elite running college qb.
Spot on KB. It's blindly obvious. JG has his weaknesses but he's not the reason for our abysmal offensive performances the past two years.
 
#36

HuntlandVolinColo

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#36
This subject gets mentioned in many threads. Thought it would be good to discuss more in depth in one place.

There appears to be a general assumption that it will be better (some even say far better) than last year. Some think the rookie tackles are a lock to be starters, others caution that if you are playing freshman tackles in the SEC it's a sign that you are still in trouble. The "fire Friend" talk seems to have died down. Can our tight ends do the job they need to do? Do you think players who did not perform well in the past will show improvement? Why?

Would love to hear everyone's opinions, especially from those among us with serious football knowledge who could break down the "why" of their thoughts.
First off I think Tatum continues to improve and get stronger. I believe he holds down the LT and CJP alternates Morris and Wright at RT, giving them some feedback every 5-6 plays. I think we put Jamir Johnson and Trey Smith at Guard and either Kennedy or Ryan Johnson at Center.

Road graders in the middle and improved play at the tackles!
 
#37

livefaith

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#37
OK, who are the Week 1 Starters (+3 next in line) and then who are they for Week 10? Assuming 0 attrition. Here's my stab at it with notes.

Week 1:
RT - Marcus Tatum (Stronger & more experienced
RG - Ryan Johnson(Stronger & more experienced)
C - Brandon Kennedy (Healthy)
LG - Jahmir Johnson (More understanding, bigger & stronger)
LT - Trey Smith (Rusty early. Beastly)
6th lineman - Jerome Carvin
7th lineman - Wanya Morris
8th lineman - Darnell Wright


Week 10:
RT - Wanya Morris
RG - Jahmir Johnson
C - Brandon Kennedy
LG - Trey Smith
LT - Darnell Wright
6th lineman - Marcus Tatum
7th lineman - Ryan Johnson
8th lineman -Jerome Carvin


Beginning the season I'll give the group @ a 5:10 SEC rating. By week 10 I'll give em a 6:10 rating with a big expectations for 2020.

... next.
 
#38

vegasvolfan

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#38
This subject gets mentioned in many threads. Thought it would be good to discuss more in depth in one place.

There appears to be a general assumption that it will be better (some even say far better) than last year. Some think the rookie tackles are a lock to be starters, others caution that if you are playing freshman tackles in the SEC it's a sign that you are still in trouble. The "fire Friend" talk seems to have died down. Can our tight ends do the job they need to do? Do you think players who did not perform well in the past will show improvement? Why?

Would love to hear everyone's opinions, especially from those among us with serious football knowledge who could break down the "why" of their thoughts.
We have EIGHTEEN OLs returning this year. Wow, I was not aware of this LOL.

I can’t imagine not being somewhat better. That said, I just read the article about Crompton’s praise of Chaney. I wonder how much of Crompton’s success was due to improved OL play. Chaney coached OL for a ton of teams including the Rams. See below.

I will also add that Worley played behind 5 pros in Chris Scott, Dallas Thomas, Vladimir Richard, Jarrod Shaw, Jacques McClendon, and then Aaron Douglas who was going to play for Bama and may have played in the pro had he not died. It is important to note that Chaney helped coach all of these guys.

Coaching career as OL
1988
Western Michigan (OL)
1988–1992 Cal State Fullerton (OC/OL)
1994–1996 Wyoming (OL/RC)
2006–2007 St. Louis Rams (OL)
 
#40

sjt18

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#40
OK, who are the Week 1 Starters (+3 next in line) and then who are they for Week 10? Assuming 0 attrition. Here's my stab at it with notes.

Week 1:
RT - Marcus Tatum (Stronger & more experienced
RG - Ryan Johnson(Stronger & more experienced)
C - Brandon Kennedy (Healthy)
LG - Jahmir Johnson (More understanding, bigger & stronger)
LT - Trey Smith (Rusty early. Beastly)
6th lineman - Jerome Carvin
7th lineman - Wanya Morris
8th lineman - Darnell Wright


Week 10:
RT - Wanya Morris
RG - Jahmir Johnson
C - Brandon Kennedy
LG - Trey Smith
LT - Darnell Wright
6th lineman - Marcus Tatum
7th lineman - Ryan Johnson
8th lineman -Jerome Carvin


Beginning the season I'll give the group @ a 5:10 SEC rating. By week 10 I'll give em a 6:10 rating with a big expectations for 2020.

... next.
That's a pretty good stab.

I hope that if Tatum starts the season... he finishes it. Continuity for once would be a nice thing to see. I hope Trey Smith plays OG. He's UT's most talented OL. He can play OT... but he is a GREAT OG.

It is complete speculation at this point but I think one but not both of the Fr will start barring injuries.
 
#41

sjt18

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#41
Spot on KB. It's blindly obvious. JG has his weaknesses but he's not the reason for our abysmal offensive performances the past two years.
There is no "the reason". He is A reason... as is the OL.... as are the receivers... as was the coaching.

If you want to say that the OL is more of a reason than JG then you really shouldn't have a problem with honest criticisms of JG's game. Whether you say he was 25% or 40% or 60%... his indecision and other issues significantly contributed.
 
#42
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#42
There is no "the reason". He is A reason... as is the OL.... as are the receivers... as was the coaching.

If you want to say that the OL is more of a reason than JG then you really shouldn't have a problem with honest criticisms of JG's game. Whether you say he was 25% or 40% or 60%... his indecision and other issues significantly contributed.
Lmao

I don't have a problemo with criticism against JG. He ate a lot of sacks when he could've thrown the ball away or made better reads. But you obviously have not watched any of our games if you think JG was the a significant part of our losing ways. Sure, you might could say that his RS FR year was primarily his fault but let's be honest, that's a strawman fallacy. The proof is in the pudding about our OL. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see they've been hot garbage since 2013 but an average person watching the games could easily identify the problem...just like most commentators. But like you said, it's not totally the OL's fault for our wins and losses but it is the MAJORITY.
 
#43

jakez4ut

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#43
Lmao

I don't have a problemo with criticism against JG. He ate a lot of sacks when he could've thrown the ball away or made better reads. But you obviously have not watched any of our games if you think JG was the a significant part of our losing ways. Sure, you might could say that his RS FR year was primarily his fault but let's be honest, that's a strawman fallacy. The proof is in the pudding about our OL. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see they've been hot garbage since 2013 but an average person watching the games could easily identify the problem...just like most commentators. But like you said, it's not totally the OL's fault for our wins and losses but it is the MAJORITY.
this doesn't make a ton of sense......you say you have no problem in critisizing JG, then go on to say that those criticisms are a strawman argument?

this really isn't that hard.

no one is going to tell you that the OL hasn't been a problem.

no one is going to tell you that WR's haven't been part of the problem.

no one is going to tell you that the lack of a run game in general hasn't been part of the problem.

and no one should tell you that despite all that, JG has little to no culpability in any of these problems.

@sjt18 is correct. there is no "the problem" there really isn't a "majority of the problem" either. you could literally go play to play in some games and see the same result and see 3 or 4 different reasons we got that result....be it pre snap recognition issues, holding the ball too long, a bad mistake in pass protection or the wrong play call....pick one.....they all apply at some point or another.

the whole offense needs to take a step forward, JG included. he's proven he can manage the offense and take care of the ball. he, needs to take another step. and yes, he needs the rest of the offense to take that step with him.
 
#44

BigOrangeTrain

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#44
OK, who are the Week 1 Starters (+3 next in line) and then who are they for Week 10? Assuming 0 attrition. Here's my stab at it with notes.

Week 1:
RT - Marcus Tatum (Stronger & more experienced
RG - Ryan Johnson(Stronger & more experienced)
C - Brandon Kennedy (Healthy)
LG - Jahmir Johnson (More understanding, bigger & stronger)
LT - Trey Smith (Rusty early. Beastly)
6th lineman - Jerome Carvin
7th lineman - Wanya Morris
8th lineman - Darnell Wright


Week 10:
RT - Wanya Morris
RG - Jahmir Johnson
C - Brandon Kennedy
LG - Trey Smith
LT - Darnell Wright
6th lineman - Marcus Tatum
7th lineman - Ryan Johnson
8th lineman -Jerome Carvin


Beginning the season I'll give the group @ a 5:10 SEC rating. By week 10 I'll give em a 6:10 rating with a big expectations for 2020.

... next.
Ok lets assume that starting 5 is correct. Although I believe Trey Smith will not play. Ranking them 5:10 as an SEC caliber OL is being generous to say the least. I would say more like 2:10. Smith and Kennedy are the only ones capable of being considered SEC level.

As far as your lineup at week 10? That may be better depending on how Wright and Morris develop. I hope guys like McBride, Chris Akpro and Carvin somehow develop into starters. Those are some big dudes. But if your lineup is correct, then I could see it being a solid mid level OL for the SEC.
 
#45

butchna

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#45
Ok lets assume that starting 5 is correct. Although I believe Trey Smith will not play. Ranking them 5:10 as an SEC caliber OL is being generous to say the least. I would say more like 2:10. Smith and Kennedy are the only ones capable of being considered SEC level.

As far as your lineup at week 10? That may be better depending on how Wright and Morris develop. I hope guys like McBride, Chris Akpro and Carvin somehow develop into starters. Those are some big dudes. But if your lineup is correct, then I could see it being a solid mid level OL for the SEC.
McBride? Uhhh...somebody break the news. 😒
 
#47

sjt18

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#47
Lmao

I don't have a problemo with criticism against JG. He ate a lot of sacks when he could've thrown the ball away or made better reads. But you obviously have not watched any of our games if you think JG was the a significant part of our losing ways. Sure, you might could say that his RS FR year was primarily his fault but let's be honest, that's a strawman fallacy. The proof is in the pudding about our OL. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see they've been hot garbage since 2013 but an average person watching the games could easily identify the problem...just like most commentators. But like you said, it's not totally the OL's fault for our wins and losses but it is the MAJORITY.
So you don't have a problem with criticizing JG... but then have a problem with assigning any significant part of the blame to JG's problems... got it. You want to give him 25% that's fine. But that's a significant part of the problem.

I watched every game. Most more than once. He WAS a significant part of the problem. It isn't personal with me. Why some think you must "hate" someone to criticize something about them is beyond me. I don't hate Drew Richmond either but he had to have led the SEC in illegal procedure.

I didn't spend much time bashing Helton. But I am confident UT now has one of the best OC's out there. Beside him are two former NC QB's one of which won the Heisman. JG couldn't be in a more favorable position to overcome his issues.
 
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#48

VOLINVONORE

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#48
This subject gets mentioned in many threads. Thought it would be good to discuss more in depth in one place.

There appears to be a general assumption that it will be better (some even say far better) than last year. Some think the rookie tackles are a lock to be starters, others caution that if you are playing freshman tackles in the SEC it's a sign that you are still in trouble. The "fire Friend" talk seems to have died down. Can our tight ends do the job they need to do? Do you think players who did not perform well in the past will show improvement? Why?

Would love to hear everyone's opinions, especially from those among us with serious football knowledge who could break down the "why" of their thoughts.
If we don't play Freshmen tackles in the first game, we will be in November.
 
#49

VOLINVONORE

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#49
Lmao

I don't have a problemo with criticism against JG. He ate a lot of sacks when he could've thrown the ball away or made better reads. But you obviously have not watched any of our games if you think JG was the a significant part of our losing ways. Sure, you might could say that his RS FR year was primarily his fault but let's be honest, that's a strawman fallacy. The proof is in the pudding about our OL. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see they've been hot garbage since 2013 but an average person watching the games could easily identify the problem...just like most commentators. But like you said, it's not totally the OL's fault for our wins and losses but it is the MAJORITY.
For some unknown reason, the Oline looked as if it played good games against Auburn and Kentucky. If they played that well the whole season, we likely would have won 3 more games last year.
 
#50

BigOrangeTrain

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#50
For some unknown reason, the Oline looked as if it played good games against Auburn and Kentucky. If they played that well the whole season, we likely would have won 3 more games last year.
JGs stats for both of those games

Auburn: 21/32 328 2 TDs 66% 84 qbr

UK: 12/20 197 2 TDs 60% 87 qbr

Funny how the 2 games the OL actually played well, JG plays well. Imagine that.
 

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