LB Beasley Under Investigation

SayUWantAreVOLution

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A criminal record is punishment. A short leash is punishment. Community service is both punishment and rehabilitation. Let him do voluntary "live hang" at a chicken processing plant for a while. He'll get a life's worth of doing bad things to animals. Let him clean dog kennels for a summer and be a free janitor for a vet. Then there's all sorts of options available specifically related to football including suspending him for games or even revoking his scholarship for a year but allowing him to play and re-earn it.

The options aren't kick him off the team or do nothing.

He's a distraction to you and a few others. The world and even the smaller world of college football are NOT focused on Beasley or the kitten.

I've held people "accountable" for my whole career. I've counseled people. I've suspended people. I've coached people. I've seen people both succeed and fail once put on performance improvement plans. I've had too many occasions when I had to look across a table and tell someone they no longer had a job. I've been involved in discipline in private business, the Army, and even church. You can neither afford to underreact or overreact. Above all you have to be morally and ethically consistent. You are proposing a standard that's a trap.... something that cannot be morally and ethically consistent.
I get your gist but as this drags on, it hurts the team.

How long does Heupel simply leave guys in "limbo" not getting reps, meetings, etc.

It's bad for performance. It's a distraction.

At this point, MANAGE THE DAMN TEAM. Make a decision, even if I disagree, do the job and manage the football team responsibly. We need bodies on the field, studying and learning the new schemes, and building team unity.

I'm over arguing about players, let's turn this to those in charge....... do your job and manage the situation.
 

volbeast33

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I get your gist but as this drags on, it hurts the team.

How long does Heupel simply leave guys in "limbo" not getting reps, meetings, etc.

It's bad for performance. It's a distraction.

At this point, MANAGE THE DAMN TEAM. Make a decision, even if I disagree, do the job and manage the football team responsibly. We need bodies on the field, studying and learning the new schemes, and building team unity.

I'm over arguing about players, let's turn this to those in charge....... do your job and manage the situation.
It’s not huge deal to anyone but fans..... if it works out and he can be on the team then great.... if it doesn’t then move on at that time.
 
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JACK8254

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I have been a Vol fan since I watched Johnny Majors star when I was 10 years old. I have donated , had season tix for 2 decades, bought jerseys and sweatshirts , etc. If this Beasley psycho is allowed to remain on the team- I AM DONE. The only thing lower than someone who abuses a helpless animal is a child molester. I will not go to games, watch them on TV, or buy any merchandise. These players ( fairly or not) represent the University and what does it say about UT if this guy plays football in orange again. I have suffered thru these hapless coaching hires and general thuggery on the team ( we kill the po-lice in Memphis) but this is a bridge too far. I despise people who abuse helpless animals and those who fail to hold them accountable .
 

sjt18

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I get your gist but as this drags on, it hurts the team.
Actually... and this is something that bothers me about the news... the longer it drags on the less the media will care unless the story is valuable to some narrative they're pushing. If UT makes a decision to keep him then they shouldn't make an announcement any time soon. They should make an announcement at 4:30 pm, July 2nd.

When was the last time you heard about the governor of Virginia's blatant racist behavior? He is still in office. He didn't resign. The media narrative is that Republicans, not Democrats, are racist... so it was dropped. I can't recall what happened but I believe the Lt Gov of Virginia also refused to resign after credible allegations of sexual harassment and abuse.

So who outside of UT fans and sports media is still worked up over Beasley? The media is waiting on the next big story. If Henry T makes a public commitment to another school... Beasley won't be anything more than a footnote.

How long does Heupel simply leave guys in "limbo" not getting reps, meetings, etc.
I don't know. And what he does while suspended makes a pretty big difference with regard to his future on the team. If he eats donuts for the next two months rather than working out on his own... he might as well go his own way regardless.

It's bad for performance. It's a distraction.
Doubtful. It would be interesting to know what his teammates think. I suspect their opinions are different than the ones expressed here if this isn't normal behavior for Beasley. If it is normal behavior... I'd be surprised if some of the team leaders aren't pushing Heupel to get rid of him.

To me there's a big difference between him doing something really stupid and mean as a "bad joke" then having remorse about it... having not done it before and not doing it after... and a sicko who really does get off torturing animals. Since no one has reported any different... I am working on the assumption that this is the first time he's done something like this at least since becoming an adult. (?)

At this point, MANAGE THE DAMN TEAM. Make a decision, even if I disagree, do the job and manage the football team responsibly. We need bodies on the field, studying and learning the new schemes, and building team unity.

I'm over arguing about players, let's turn this to those in charge....... do your job and manage the situation.
I think they are. There is a process. But also... UT pays lawyers and PR and HR people a lot of money to determine what to do and how to address concerns like yours about the best "look" for the program.

At the point they decide what to do with him, you'll probably see an immediate announcement if he's being booted. If he isn't then they will let it blow over as much as possible in the media... they will probably "leak" some early info... and they'll announce it when they think it will do the least damage.

This isn't a UT thing... it is almost universal in politics, business, religion, sports, ....
 
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rdk4121

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I have been a Vol fan since I watched Johnny Majors star when I was 10 years old. I have donated , had season tix for 2 decades, bought jerseys and sweatshirts , etc. If this Beasley psycho is allowed to remain on the team- I AM DONE. The only thing lower than someone who abuses a helpless animal is a child molester. I will not go to games, watch them on TV, or buy any merchandise. These players ( fairly or not) represent the University and what does it say about UT if this guy plays football in orange again. I have suffered thru these hapless coaching hires and general thuggery on the team ( we kill the po-lice in Memphis) but this is a bridge too far. I despise people who abuse helpless animals and those who fail to hold them accountable .
I fully believe they're taking this matter seriously. He will be investigated criminally, but as it is important in this country, he's innocent until proven guilty. If they find him guilty, I don't think you'll have to worry about him staying on the team.
 
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BigOrangeMojo

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If true, I agree with you.

However, we can not and should not rush to judgment on accusations, especially when there is a financial angle involved...
 

SayUWantAreVOLution

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It’s not huge deal to anyone but fans..... if it works out and he can be on the team then great.... if it doesn’t then move on at that time.
Big enough for TMZ, ESPN, etc to think they'll get clicks/eyeballs from it. That's plenty big enough to want a "Decider" to decide and get it behind us.

How long has it been with Willis and Co? A month? More? Do we let these things just sit while we miss out on training?

Act decisively to start the era, Coach Heupel, and you'll establish who is in control...... whether we agree or disagree, lead the program.
 

GTBATV

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I understand the frustration. I don't see how this is any worse than a player that beats up his helpless girlfriend. Or to devalue a human life as you mentioned in your post. And we have had one or two of those in recent years, if I remember correctly.
 
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SayUWantAreVOLution

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Actually... and this is something that bothers me about the news... the longer it drags on the less the media will care unless the story is valuable to some narrative they're pushing. If UT makes a decision to keep him then they shouldn't make an announcement any time soon. They should make an announcement at 4:30 pm, July 2nd.

When was the last time you heard about the governor of Virginia's blatant racist behavior? He is still in office. He didn't resign. The media narrative is that Republicans, not Democrats, are racist... so it was dropped. I can't recall what happened but I believe the Lt Gov of Virginia also refused to resign after credible allegations of sexual harassment and abuse.

So who outside of UT fans and sports media is still worked up over Beasley? The media is waiting on the next big story. If Henry T makes a public commitment to another school... Beasley won't be anything more than a footnote.

I don't know. And what he does while suspended makes a pretty big difference with regard to his future on the team. If he eats donuts for the next two months rather than working out on his own... he might as well go his own way regardless.

Doubtful. It would be interesting to know what his teammates think. I suspect their opinions are different than the ones expressed here if this isn't normal behavior for Beasley. If it is normal behavior... I'd be surprised if some of the team leaders aren't pushing Heupel to get rid of him.

To me there's a big difference between him doing something really stupid and mean as a "bad joke" then having remorse about it... having not done it before and not doing it after... and a sicko who really does get off torturing animals. Since no one has reported any different... I am working on the assumption that this is the first time he's done something like this at least since becoming an adult. (?)


I think they are. There is a process. But also... UT pays lawyers and PR and HR people a lot of money to determine what to do and how to address concerns like yours about the best "look" for the program.

At the point they decide what to do with him, you'll probably see an immediate announcement if he's being booted. If he isn't then they will let it blow over as much as possible in the media... they will probably "leak" some early info... and they'll announce it when they think it will do the least damage.

This isn't a UT thing... it is almost universal in politics, business, religion, sports, ....
5 players cited in the first few weeks of school for a new AD and new coaching staff.

Look, I understand people testing boundaries of new leadership. I've done it and I've dealt with it.

If they've not had the time to sort out Willis and Co by now, what's the deal? My suspicion is: we're fine with what happened and waiting for it to blow over, as you say. My take is: welcome to how Felon U gets started. You're welcome to disagree and probably do but...... we'll both wait and see.

My view: "Hey, Coach is okay, ya know? Look, he's just letting it all blow over......" and discipline isn't there and we can look forward to further testing of the limits and bonehead behavior. Accountability. You're VERY correct that what matters most to fans AND players is football...... others, not so much.

Accountability has to hit players with what matters in their lives: their scholarship and their place on the team. Again, we agree THAT is what matters to them. "Community Service" or "running" or whatever isn't real accountability. What matters to them is their place on the team and scholarship. If you don't put that on the table, you aren't really doing discipline.

Suspend them, at least, from games, etc. Get their attention where it matters, not with things that don't matter to them.
 

volbeast33

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Big enough for TMZ, ESPN, etc to think they'll get clicks/eyeballs from it. That's plenty big enough to want a "Decider" to decide and get it behind us.

How long has it been with Willis and Co? A month? More? Do we let these things just sit while we miss out on training?

Act decisively to start the era, Coach Heupel, and you'll establish who is in control...... whether we agree or disagree, lead the program.
Who cares what ESPN or TMZ thinks..... I would rather keep any talented player we can get.... Do you think Saban would get rid of talent so easily?
 

m1al

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Big enough for TMZ, ESPN, etc to think they'll get clicks/eyeballs from it. That's plenty big enough to want a "Decider" to decide and get it behind us.

How long has it been with Willis and Co? A month? More? Do we let these things just sit while we miss out on training?

Act decisively to start the era, Coach Heupel, and you'll establish who is in control...... whether we agree or disagree, lead the program.
The MORE people start to NOT give a sh!t about TMZ, ESPN and media in general, the LESS they'll be able to push their narratives...
 
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SayUWantAreVOLution

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Who cares what ESPN or TMZ thinks..... I would rather keep any talented player we can get.... Do you think Saban would get rid of talent so easily?
I'm not sure, and nobody is.... because Saban handles things with authority..... what NCAA violations Deonte Brown had but he sat an Orange Bowl and 6 games. So yeah, these things can be done without lots of fanfare but with no doubt about control.
 

ABINGDON VOL FAN

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As I said, No I didn't.. Not surprisingly you left the most important part out.. Here is my exact quote..

"I worked with a guy who farmed, raised cattle, chickens and the like. He was of the nicest, down to earth, hardest working, just plain good folk I've ever known. He did the same exact thing to feral cats that that multiplied like rabbits and killed his chickens. His opinion was it was a hell of..."

He drowned FERAL CATS not kittens.. Again, stop blaming me for your inability to understand a simple statement....
You don’t drown feral cats either , it’s still unethical and immoral You take them to the shelter and either they are adopted or euthanized humanely. Drowning cats is a barbaric act. Or they can be taken to a farm that will welcome them for rodent control which is what the Margaret Mitchell clinic does here in SW VA. Sorry but you lose this debate. SMDH.

How did he catch feral cats then to drown them Anyway?
 
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sjt18

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5 players cited in the first few weeks of school for a new AD and new coaching staff.

Look, I understand people testing boundaries of new leadership. I've done it and I've dealt with it.

If they've not had the time to sort out Willis and Co by now, what's the deal? My suspicion is: we're fine with what happened and waiting for it to blow over, as you say. My take is: welcome to how Felon U gets started. You're welcome to disagree and probably do but...... we'll both wait and see.

My view: "Hey, Coach is okay, ya know? Look, he's just letting it all blow over......" and discipline isn't there and we can look forward to further testing of the limits and bonehead behavior. Accountability. You're VERY correct that what matters most to fans AND players is football...... others, not so much.

Accountability has to hit players with what matters in their lives: their scholarship and their place on the team. Again, we agree THAT is what matters to them. "Community Service" or "running" or whatever isn't real accountability. What matters to them is their place on the team and scholarship. If you don't put that on the table, you aren't really doing discipline.

Suspend them, at least, from games, etc. Get their attention where it matters, not with things that don't matter to them.
If you want to have discipline then you have to have consistency. Starting out tough then backing off may sound like a good idea but it almost never is. It sends a clear signal the boundaries are flexible.

Allowing it to blow over is for the media's sake... not the players. With the players you define a standard, show grace where appropriate, and execute "justice" when a guy goes too far.

I don't think hurting a cat rises to the "too far" level. You and others apparently do. I do think it is worthy of punishment.... and then a short rope.


IMHO, I'm not sure how much of this is testing boundaries and how much might have been going on and getting covered up. Fulmer was a uniquely position AD because of relationships in K'ville and TN. We may never know... but people don't usually just change their behavior that quickly and radically.
 

sjt18

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And the world needs to have less violence and pink unicorns need to visit pediatric wards but..... reality.
Those media outlets aren't about "reality". They are purely about creating and perpetuating agenda driven narratives.

Obviously if people stop listening to them... they lose their power. The power in their false narratives lies completely in the degree to which they are uncritically accepted.
 
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sjt18

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You don’t drown feral cats either , it’s still unethical and immoral
By whose standard of morality? Yours? God's? Someone else? Who declared it either unethical or immoral?

You take them to the shelter and either they are adopted or euthanized humanely. Drowning cats is a barbaric act. Or they can be taken to a farm that will welcome them for rodent control which is what the Margaret Mitchell clinic does here in SW VA. Sorry but you lose this debate. SMDH.
Only if if you supply a source for your moral standard greater than just your own opinion.... or even the opinion of a majority.

m1a1's scenario is kind of interesting. You are on the one hand saying that Beasley should have his life derailed, denied his scholarship, and booted off the team because he hurt a cat that was the property of another person. Then you are defending feral cats that are destroying the property of this farmer. You demand that Beasley be punished to the maximum but that destructive feral cats must be afforded kindness.

In my area, extra cats get dropped off at barns like you suggest. And then the next group gets dropped off at the same barn... then another... then another. What coyotes do to cats is much worse than what Beasley did. Some simply starve. So is drowning them where death takes a couple of minutes max more or less "humane" than dropping them off at a barn?

How did he catch feral cats then to drown them Anyway?
Only because our cat recently did this at a neighbor's house.... you can catch them in a small game trap baited with tuna.
 

SayUWantAreVOLution

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If you want to have discipline then you have to have consistency. Starting out tough then backing off may sound like a good idea but it almost never is. It sends a clear signal the boundaries are flexible.

Allowing it to blow over is for the media's sake... not the players. With the players you define a standard, show grace where appropriate, and execute "justice" when a guy goes too far.

I don't think hurting a cat rises to the "too far" level. You and others apparently do. I do think it is worthy of punishment.... and then a short rope.


IMHO, I'm not sure how much of this is testing boundaries and how much might have been going on and getting covered up. Fulmer was a uniquely position AD because of relationships in K'ville and TN. We may never know... but people don't usually just change their behavior that quickly and radically.
I'm looking for CONTROL from the staff. IF this kind of thing has been going on and covered up..... why is it uncovered now? Is this the lack of a Fulmer "good ol' boy" relationship with UT police and KPD? Is Fulmer STILL the gift that keeps on taking? I'm skeptical.

I'm just not convinced "punishment" is effective which doesn't take away something that MATTERS to a player. Again, running or community service or making them volunteer is merely annoying.

Suspend them from the first 3 games (outside of Pitt, essentially as close to "gimmes" as we get) and tell the team THIS IS THE NEW STANDARD and stay there. Screw up...... sit out games. Screw up again...... turn in your equipment.

You know, accountability with something that MATTERS to the players AND no backing off. I'm fine with second chances but I'm adamant that the first offense needs REAL punishment to avoid a second offense.
 

sjt18

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I'm looking for CONTROL from the staff. IF this kind of thing has been going on and covered up..... why is it uncovered now? Is this the lack of a Fulmer "good ol' boy" relationship with UT police and KPD? Is Fulmer STILL the gift that keeps on taking? I'm skeptical.
I am too. But "control" isn't control if it overreacts.

I don't know that about Fulmer... but suspect it due to the sudden "rash" of misbehavior. Remember, the last regime was paying players. Fulmer denied knowledge but how did that all get set up with funding from the "right people" by Pruitt without Fulmer's help?

I'm just not convinced "punishment" is effective which doesn't take away something that MATTERS to a player. Again, running or community service or making them volunteer is merely annoying.
And for many others it is punishment. The coaches do not have the option of creating different standards of behavior, discipline, and punishment. We also do not know Beasley's reaction now that he's had time to consider what he did. Some guys... wouldn't care. Some guys would have deep remorse.

Suspend them from the first 3 games (outside of Pitt, essentially as close to "gimmes" as we get) and tell the team THIS IS THE NEW STANDARD and stay there. Screw up...... sit out games. Screw up again...... turn in your equipment.
I could go along with that as long as they truly considered whether they were able and willing to apply it to future issues.

You know, accountability with something that MATTERS to the players AND no backing off. I'm fine with second chances but I'm adamant that the first offense needs REAL punishment to avoid a second offense.
I agree that whatever they determine his leash should be short. If they go my route then the next offence could be a suspension followed by dismissal. But whatever they do... they have to be consistent to establish discipline.
 

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