Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

[BeecherVol]

“What do you have to lose”? Does not = “I have literally no level of expertise, consult your physician for more information”.

Many physicians have found anecdotally that this drug can cause liver failure in very sick patients and actually speed up the deadly effects of the virus, so they are not administering it. There is a reason Dr Fauci is so apprehensive about it and has to consistently take it upon himself to correct the dumb a** at the mic.

Trump has no business talking about pharmacology, at all.

If a sitting president needs to tell you he's not a Dr (when you know he isn't) after telling you to consult yours as he would, Im not sure you can be helped.

So we have Drs that disagree on whether or not to use a drug.

 

[luthervol]

But on the continuum.....

Signed Luther

Thanks,
You know it's true.

 

[RikidyBones]

These ridiculous mischaracterizations of what Trump is saying about the malaria drug or Z-pac combo is just typical Trump slurper double talk.

To be crystal clear:

1) Everyone hopes those drugs work. Or some other drugs work. No one is rooting against those medications, or any medications, to be effective and safe. Every person out there hopes for an effective treatment and a vaccine.

2) No one is arguing against a right to try scenario where an individual doctor feels it is a last hope for reversal of a downward spiral for a given patient.

3) The problem is that Trump has gone WAY BEYOND that scenario with how he talks about it. And no, his irresponsible behavior is not saved by him throwing in the occasional "we'll see if it works" line mixed in with 20 minutes of his mindless wandering, which definitely gives the impression that he thinks it ought to be tried and even used as a prophylactic.

No he hasnt. shut up

 

[BowlBrother85]

I've never said anything about an apology, just a mea culpa. And mostly I'm talking about certain posters on this board doing backflips to avoid admitting they were wrong and Trump was right.

That is human nature. Most people will only grant courtesies to those who would do the same in their situation. Trump would rather draw a line on a weather forecast map than admit he made a mistake about the trajectory of a hurricane. He would also rather claim that he was calling the coronavirus a pandemic long before anyone else, when he was actually saying that the American people had nothing to worry about in January. I guess the lesson here is not to expect nice gestures from other people, that you wouldn't do yourself.

 

[Weezer]

Thanks,
You know it's true.

I know you're nuttier than squirrel poop. That's what I know.

 

[Weezer]

That is human nature. Most people will only grant courtesies to those who would do the same in their situation. Trump would rather draw a line on a weather forecast map than admit he made a mistake about the trajectory of a hurricane. He would also rather claim that he was calling the coronavirus a pandemic long before anyone else, when he was actually saying that the American people had nothing to worry about in January.

My nature is to admit when I'm proven wrong, and give credit where credit is due.

 

[OHvol40]

How about Cuomo?

What about blah blah blah... doesn’t that mean Trump can/should do whatever he wants because I found something else to compare it to? Boy, that gets old.

Ok, full me in, what did he say?

 

[NCFisher]

“What do you have to lose”? Does not = “I have literally no level of expertise, consult your physician for more information”.

Many physicians have found anecdotally that this drug can cause liver failure in very sick patients and actually speed up the deadly effects of the virus, so they are not administering it. There is a reason Dr Fauci is so apprehensive about it and has to consistently take it upon himself to correct the dumb a** at the mic.

Trump has no business talking about pharmacology, at all.

I'd want to see a link to that claim. I understood liver and renal failure to be evident in animal testing at far higher doses than humans would be prescribed. here was also talk of vision impairment but that is only a potential in continual use for a decade or more and even then can be managed.

Frankly, at the paltry $20 or so to treat a patient with it and possibly avoid a hospital stay costing $10s/1000s, and known to be uniformly well tolerated, I think anyone not trying it is a dumb a**. I think we're beyond the dismissive characterization of 'anecdotal'. Real fooking doctors are seeing real results, helping real patients.

 

[BowlBrother85]

My nature is to admit when I'm proven wrong, and give credit where credit is due.

That is good. That is what we should all strive for. That is not how Trump does things, however. That is part of the reason that I think he is granted no such gracious consideration from the press.

 

[lawgator1]

No he hasnt. shut up

Your response mimics Trump whenever he gets a tough question or is confronted with facts he does not like. He would be proud of you.

 

[OHvol40]

I imagine the people who die from side effects of hydroxychloroquine will have those deaths attributed to COVID-19. This will further infuriate some of those here claiming that the deaths resulting from the pandemic are exaggerated.

It reminds me of psychiatric medications. The plausible deniability that the medication wasn't at fault for someone going ballistic or committing suicide is very convenient. "Well, they were being treated for a psychiatric condition."

Not if it’s more detrimental than helpful. If you get liver damage/failure then it furthers your complications. Compare that to any potential therapeutic effect of the drug and any physician worth their salt will not administer this particular drug to a covid-19 pt.

 

[Weezer]

That is good. That is what we should all strive for. That is not how Trump does things, however. That is part of the reason that I think he is granted no such gracious consideration from the press.

That doesn't serve as justification, which is what you seem to be attempting to do. If you consider Trump's actions wrong, what does that say about you if you choose to mimic those actions?

 

[NCFisher]

It was a clunky statement. "What do you have to lose?" Is that how you should approach whether or not to take a certain drug when you are sick?

Yes; when your potential choice is a lengthy, expensive hospital stay or $20 of HCQ that multitudes of doctors are seeing help patients and is uniformly well-tolerated, that's exactly what you do.

 

[McDad]

My nature is to admit when I'm proven wrong, and give credit where credit is due.

Im married. My nature is to admit to being wrong even though she is "fine" and I have no idea wth is going on.

 

[Roustabout]

These ridiculous mischaracterizations of what Trump is saying about the malaria drug or Z-pac combo is just typical Trump slurper double talk.

To be crystal clear:

1) Everyone hopes those drugs work. Or some other drugs work. No one is rooting against those medications, or any medications, to be effective and safe. Every person out there hopes for an effective treatment and a vaccine.

2) No one is arguing against a right to try scenario where an individual doctor feels it is a last hope for reversal of a downward spiral for a given patient.

3) The problem is that Trump has gone WAY BEYOND that scenario with how he talks about it. And no, his irresponsible behavior is not saved by him throwing in the occasional "we'll see if it works" line mixed in with 20 minutes of his mindless wandering, which definitely gives the impression that he thinks it ought to be tried and even used as a prophylactic.

Wrong. The anecdotal evidence shows that the earlier a patient gets the drug the better it works. Waiting until someone is intubated is too ****ing late. My coworker’s dad got it as soon as admitted to hospital and never had to be on a respirator. You cannot wait on clinical. The production needs to be ramped up.

I’ve watched everything trump has said on it. He hasn’t gone too far. He’s freed us from ******** regulations.

 

[BeecherVol]

I've been politically aware since about 1982 or so. I don't know any politician who makes a practice of admitting wrong and critics were right.
Trump appears no different than anybody else in that regard.

Yeah. Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan they were all tripping over themselves to take blame.

 

[lawgator1]

Not if it’s more detrimental than helpful. If you get liver damage/failure then it furthers your complications. Compare that to any potential therapeutic effect of the drug and any physician worth their salt will not administer this particular drug to a covid-19 pt.

You cannot be right because, you know, there are a solid three or four rumors and stories of it working this one time for this other lady.

 

[Stew Cook]

Not if it’s more detrimental than helpful. If you get liver damage/failure then it furthers your complications. Compare that to any potential therapeutic effect of the drug and any physician worth their salt will not administer this particular drug to a covid-19 pt.

I can't say I know enough about it, but the "what do you have to lose?" argument seems even more ridiculous given those possibilities.

 

[lawgator1]

Wrong. The anecdotal evidence shows that the earlier a patient gets the drug the better it works. Waiting until someone is intubated is too ****ing late. My coworker’s dad got it as soon as admitted to hospital and never had to be on a respirator. You cannot wait on clinical. The production needs to be ramped up.

I’ve watched everything trump has said on it. He hasn’t gone too far. He’s freed us from ******** regulations.

So he would have been put on a respirator except for the drug? How do you know this?

 

[NCFisher]

Lol, that is disgusting. But hilarious.

He's sneaking up easy on it...

 

[Sandman 423]

as it would if he had been wearing it properly, it;s not an airtight seal sort of mask,

That is a terrible excuse you are making for him. Either he doesn't know how to wear it properly or he just had it on for show.
We use mask like these in our fab shop and if it is the right size it makes a good seal. No disposable mask makes a perfect seal. Even a fitted respirator will lose its seal when you move certain ways.

 

[OHvol40]

If a sitting president needs to tell you he's not a Dr (when you know he isn't) after telling you to consult yours as he would, Im not sure you can be helped.

So we have Drs that disagree on whether or not to use a drug.

I haven’t personally heard any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that plaquenil can be effective therapeutically or as a prophylactic with covid. I have personally seen patients with covid die while receiving plaquenil and developing complications from the drug.

If you have any other information then I’d be happy to hear it.

Bottom line, let the professionals speak to the public about the pharmacology, not the politicians. If you disagree then you’re either not being honest, or you’re plain stupid.

 

[Stew Cook]

That is a terrible excuse you are making for him. Either he doesn't know how to wear it properly or he just had it on for show.
We use mask like these in our fab shop and if it is the right size it makes a good seal. No disposable mask makes a perfect seal. Even a fitted respirator will lose its seal when you move certain ways.

Or course it was for show, you know, this is what we should be doing kind of show. I also made the point that he was doing it the wrong way. Hopefully he's had a chance for a redux.

 

[evillawyer]

Everything Trump touches dies. Exhibit #2157

 

[OHvol40]

I'd want to see a link to that claim. I understood liver and renal failure to be evident in animal testing at far higher doses than humans would be prescribed. here was also talk of vision impairment but that is only a potential in continual use for a decade or more and even then can be managed.

Frankly, at the paltry $20 or so to treat a patient with it and possibly avoid a hospital stay costing $10s/1000s, and known to be uniformly well tolerated, I think anyone not trying it is a dumb a**. I think we're beyond the dismissive characterization of 'anecdotal'. Real fooking doctors are seeing real results, helping real patients.

This is a well documented side effect of plaquenil in patients with autoimmune disorders, specifically lupus. The hospitals in my center have tried it with some of the initial covid patients in our center with negligible therapeutic effects but several instances of liver failure. I’m sure all this stuff will be published in time, but on the ground, in the real world, none of our hospitalists are using this drug for covid anymore. They are exploring other options.