Lady Vols vs Stanford: ESPN2 Gamethread Wed. 12/3, 9:15 ET

[glv98]

DeerPark you have been around long enough to know that this is standard operating procedure.

Some of this backlash is because the board got seduced by a few posters who pumped up expectations to an unreasonable level. We were going to be most ELITE team ever, our 13 player roster was going to deliver 15 first team All-Americans and all the LVs were going to be the first pick in the WNBA draft (with the first pick, the Dallas Mavericks take CooperSpearmanRobertsonPauldoPauldoCivilPrawlLathamBoyd....) and we were going to be undefeated, with many teams forfeiting out of fear.

When those "expectations" were confronted by harsh reality, people react badly.

Those expectations weren’t just fueled by fan board hype. Weren’t the LVs picked top 10 by most coaches and writers polls?

Of course hopefully that could still happen. Fan forums aren’t noted for their patience.

I guess, I’ve just never seen it quite this bad, visceral toward some players, even. I don’t think some people said the things about our players that they were saying now that when the previous two staffs were underachieving toward the end of their respective runs.

Are you kidding? Tamari Key says hold my lashes and nails. Holly Warlick says hold my man suits. Actually I think this board is far less viscous, especially personally towards players, than it use to be. Evian Westbrook ring a bell?

Speaking to the negativity on the board and heightening vital need for wins, i say that it does not matter one iota wins at this point in the season. You fiddle ya diddle with roster .... substitutions.... defenses.... tactics,,,,etc.... get all worked out prepare for league play.... which is more important but still not the Be All End All..... Bottom line is it all is preparation for ultimate test in the March tournament

Yeah but November losses, esp bad ones, can hurt seeding in March.

 

[chuckiepoo]

Those expectations weren’t just fueled by fan board hype. Weren’t the LVs picked top 10 by most coaches and writers polls?

Of course hopefully that could still happen. Fan forums aren’t noted for their patience.


Are you kidding? Tamari Key says hold my lashes and nails. Holly Warlick says hold my man suits. Actually I think this board is far less viscous, especially personally towards players, than it use to be. Evian Westbrook ring a bell?

Yeah but November losses, esp bad ones, can hurt seeding in March.

Thank you for a little context. I thought I remembered some Vol on Vol snark around here…

 

[spojo13]

I was simply interested in the origin of the person‘s opinion, since the origin of his or her opinion is not supported by stats.

Frankly, I find the negativity that has infected this board to be disgusting. We are treating wins as if they were losses, tearing down good performances and ripping every little mistake that a player makes. There are people openly questioning a coach that took a first-year team that was cobbled together to a Sweet 16 and went over the eventual National Champion just a season ago. And they’re doing it now because the team looked a little out of sync in the opener days after dismissing arguably its best player and overmatched against a top three team on its home court after leading in the first half.

I understand and appreciate people having high standards, but this is supposed to be what we do for fun. And seeing nothing but unhappiness and criticism, even after victories, is not fun. I just don’t understand what the end goal is for a lot of people with these comments.

I can appreciate what you are saying and definitely agree that negativity is spreading. Misery does live company.

Volfan2012 tries to give just as much praise to players and coaches as critiques, not just on this board but others. I think like Mad mentioned there were some posters and yes, even pollsters, who weren’t very realistic with a team of so many new players being top 10 to start the season. I have hope we can be that by the end of the season if we adjust some things we are currently lacking in. I try my best to refrain from posting during an actual game because it’s very easy to think and say negative things in real time without seeing the final outcome. We haven’t played yet what we are capable of doing, but let’s all hope we’ll get there by the end.

 

[spojo13]

Those expectations weren’t just fueled by fan board hype. Weren’t the LVs picked top 10 by most coaches and writers polls?

Of course hopefully that could still happen. Fan forums aren’t noted for their patience.


Are you kidding? Tamari Key says hold my lashes and nails. Holly Warlick says hold my man suits. Actually I think this board is far less viscous, especially personally towards players, than it use to be. Evian Westbrook ring a bell?

Yeah but November losses, esp bad ones, can hurt seeding in March.

Poor Tamari was criticized so much for her lashes and even called lazy. Knowing what we do now with her health, I think it is a good reminder that we never really know what these players are going through at times. Character and personal critiques have no place.

 

[KnoxLikeUs]

I agree to an extent but you went overboard a bit.
Tennessee best player last season was Talaysia Cooper. Tennessee best player this season is Talaysia Cooper or Janiah Barker so they didn’t lose arguably the best player on the team.
I don’t think either Talaysia Cooper or Janiah Barker are a 100% healthy right now. Therefore, the upcoming break until the next game is huge for this team.
Also, they weren’t overwhelmed by UCLA. They got beat and the margin of victory widen in the 2nd half… happens every season to most teams in basketball.
Which brings me to my final point, and where I agree. Yes, people are wrongfully criticizing the players on this team. A few posters hilariously think making statements about the high expectations of competing for a conference and national title are now dead and were supposedly unfounded to begin with after 8 games.
Yet if we are being honest I bet less than 3-5% of the critics on here ever played a competitive sport. They don’t understand basketball isn’t football.
Losing regular season games in basketball isn’t the same as in football. In basketball, one win at the right time or against a certain opponent can completely change your entire season. The way they talk about sports in general shows they never played the game, so you can’t expect people who never experienced being an athlete to understand athletics on a deeper level.
Tennessee roster of 6 McDonald’s All-Americans, and 6 Top 20 5-star players and 7 Top 30-50 4-star players gets showcased on television and highlighted by game announcers every single game the Lady Vols play. This program is on an elite level and these 8 games proven that by how sports media are talking about the LVs every single week. The best basketball is ahead for the LVs.
GBO politics.

I was simply interested in the origin of the person‘s opinion, since the origin of his or her opinion is not supported by stats.

Frankly, I find the negativity that has infected this board to be disgusting. We are treating wins as if they were losses, tearing down good performances and ripping every little mistake that a player makes. There are people openly questioning a coach that took a first-year team that was cobbled together to a Sweet 16 and went over the eventual National Champion just a season ago. And they’re doing it now because the team looked a little out of sync in the opener days after dismissing arguably its best player and overmatched against a top three team on its home court after leading in the first half.

I understand and appreciate people having high standards, but this is supposed to be what we do for fun. And seeing nothing but unhappiness and criticism, even after victories, is not fun. I just don’t understand what the end goal is for a lot of people with these comments.

 

[1reVOLver]

but you went overboard a bit.

Thus read the inscription on the headstone of he what wrote it.

 

[KnoxLikeUs]

Right, it takes awhile to transition into the system. Tennessee has elite talent! Watching the Stanford game over and when it clicks you better get your popcorn ready!
GBO.

I think the 5 on 5 off sub pattern bothers players coming in until they get used to it. No one subs like this so no experience with it. Agree, I think this is just a part of becoming a team. We all hope it comes sooner than later.

 

[VolBall09]

I was simply interested in the origin of the person‘s opinion, since the origin of his or her opinion is not supported by stats.

Frankly, I find the negativity that has infected this board to be disgusting. We are treating wins as if they were losses, tearing down good performances and ripping every little mistake that a player makes. There are people openly questioning a coach that took a first-year team that was cobbled together to a Sweet 16 and went over the eventual National Champion just a season ago. And they’re doing it now because the team looked a little out of sync in the opener days after dismissing arguably its best player and overmatched against a top three team on its home court after leading in the first half.

I understand and appreciate people having high standards, but this is supposed to be what we do for fun. And seeing nothing but unhappiness and criticism, even after victories, is not fun. I just don’t understand what the end goal is for a lot of people with these comments.

That’s what happens around here. It’s always like a contagion. Everyone jumps on the bandwagon and piles on.

Have I been thrilled with the play to start the season? Not particularly.

But neither has Kim, she’s a realist, and I do believe this team will improve. Every single player who played for her last season finished the season better than they started.

I do feel this will be a building year to some degree as we have a lot of freshmen. Expect this team to look very different in late February and March than they do now.

 

[ron1989]

Robertson and Wolfenbarger can't play!!!!!

Robertson I would give grace to volume scorers on bad teams always take awhile we seen it with jewel and you see it with Latson at South Carolina now Jersey she a foul magnet right now she just needs to be a present at the rim which she was good at LSU don’t really need points from her but she got to give herself chance she fouls to much and dumb fouls at that

 

[Mr. Doo Wop]

Okay Lady Vols fans, how many of the SEC teams you watched yesterday do you think the present team can beat and which ones do you think will give you big problems. I saw some really good teams yesterday and if Tennessee can play with those teams, you should not have to question whether or not your team is a really good team. Does your team ever play Notre Dame?

 

[LasVegasBill23]

Yeah but November losses, esp bad ones, can hurt seeding in March.

So true glv, but my feeling.... knowing i am in the minority..... is that seeding is immaterial.... eventually you have to play everone ultimately

 

[chuckiepoo]

Yeah but November losses, esp bad ones, can hurt seeding in March.

So true glv, but my feeling.... knowing i am in the minority..... is that seeding is immaterial.... eventually you have to play everone ultimately

Playing at home in the first two rounds is not only HCA but puts Orange butts in seats!

 

[volsagain]

Playing at home in the first two rounds is not only HCAre but puts Orange butts in seats!

Not only that but it gives you a lot more rest . Plus your playing lower seeded teams and allows your bench to get more playing time. Playing a few high stress games can also wear a team down. We're in the SEC so if and when they get in clicking they play enough really good teams to overcome a slow start to the season.

 

[RetroVol]

Kim, she’s a realist, and I do believe this team will improve. Every single player who played for her last season finished the season better than they started.

Very good points. I think Zee is a great example. Don't know what has her off to a slow start, but fully expect Coach Kim and her staff to help her return to and exceed the way she was playing at end of last season.

 

[LV renaissance]

The thing about Zee is that despite her woeful shooting so far this year, she continues to work hard in every game. She leads the team in rebounds per game (7+) and has 10 more offensive rebounds than anyone else on the team. Coach has said that she is our best rim protecter (really our only one IMO) and leads the team in minutes played despite her offensive slump. I couldn't find her season +/- but I imagine she would be in our top 3. Many of her missed shots are so close to going in, just rolling around the rim and coming back out like she put some type of tennis spin on it. If she can get back to last season's efficient shooting, she could be the difference in us winning several close games. I have put a link below for those who want to check the season stats.

Women's Basketball Cumulative Statistics

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utsports.com

 

[brittannica]

The thing about Zee is that despite her woeful shooting so far this year, she continues to work hard in every game. She leads the team in rebounds per game (7+) and has 10 more offensive rebounds than anyone else on the team. Coach has said that she is our best rim protecter (really our only one IMO) and leads the team in minutes played despite her offensive slump. I couldn't find her season +/- but I imagine she would be in our top 3. Many of her missed shots are so close to going in, just rolling around the rim and coming back out like she put some type of tennis spin on it. If she can get back to last season's efficient shooting, she could be the difference in us winning several close games. I have put a link below for those who want to check the season stats.

Women's Basketball Cumulative Statistics

@description

utsports.com

Totally agree. I feel bad for her because her shot isn't falling, and you can see the frustration on her face sometimes. I think she doubles down defensively, though, which is why she continues to earn minutes. She is a much better rebounder than most of our players. I also think she will figure it out.

 

[th2421]

The thing about Zee is that despite her woeful shooting so far this year, she continues to work hard in every game. She leads the team in rebounds per game (7+) and has 10 more offensive rebounds than anyone else on the team. Coach has said that she is our best rim protecter (really our only one IMO) and leads the team in minutes played despite her offensive slump. I couldn't find her season +/- but I imagine she would be in our top 3. Many of her missed shots are so close to going in, just rolling around the rim and coming back out like she put some type of tennis spin on it. If she can get back to last season's efficient shooting, she could be the difference in us winning several close games. I have put a link below for those who want to check the season stats.

Women's Basketball Cumulative Statistics

@description

utsports.com

She's actually in our bottom 2, but I agree, it doesn't feel that way. Maybe it's because she's been really solid during crunch time of closer games this year. It seems like that's when she's been at her best, even if she's struggled through the rest of the game. (Cooper's +21 is so impressive. 3rd in the NCAA behind Sarah Strong and MiLaysia Fulwiley.)

 

[Volfan2012]

She's actually in our bottom 2, but I agree, it doesn't feel that way. Maybe it's because she's been really solid during crunch time of closer games this year. It seems like that's when she's been at her best, even if she's struggled through the rest of the game. (Cooper's +21 is so impressive. 3rd in the NCAA behind Sarah Strong and MiLaysia Fulwiley.)
View attachment 796273

Poor Jersey on the very bottom hard to understand with her height and seems to have effective athleticism. She is really getting left behind as far as playing time if she don't make a productive push real soon. I see that rotation being no more than 10 and maybe just 8 or 9 in some games. I had high expectations for her hopefully she finds some kind of game going forward.

 

[VolBall09]

Yeah but November losses, esp bad ones, can hurt seeding in March.

So true glv, but my feeling.... knowing i am in the minority..... is that seeding is immaterial.... eventually you have to play everone ultimately

We don’t have any bad losses. I’ll bet you almost anything NC State does end up winning the ACC, at worst they’ll finish second behind North Carolina. Louisville could contend but I expect them to be very up and down.

UCLA is almost certainly going to be a 1 seed in the NCAA tournament and the best team in the Big 10.

 

[glv98]

We don’t have any bad losses. I’ll bet you almost anything NC State does end up winning the ACC, at worst they’ll finish second behind North Carolina. Louisville could contend but I expect them to be very up and down.

UCLA is almost certainly going to be a 1 seed in the NCAA tournament and the best team in the Big 10.

Flip side is no good wins. That’s why Louisville is so important. If we don’t beat them, we’re left trying to pick up good wins in the SEC.

 

[VolBall09]

Flip side is no good wins. That’s why Louisville is so important. If we don’t beat them, we’re left trying to pick up good wins in the SEC.

We haven’t beaten a top ranked team, sure. But I wouldn’t go so far as to say we have no good wins. We’ve played a much tougher schedule and even our “cupcake” games were mostly against teams who are likely to go on and win their conference.

That’s part of the issue. People are comparing this years team and the schedule they have played to last years team and the incredibly awful schedule they played in the pre-season. That schedule was a “save your job” schedule designed by the previous staff plus a couple cobbled together games against horrific teams to fill holes in our schedule.

 

[chuckiepoo]

That schedule was a “save your job” schedule

Could just as easily have been an “LSU; why not?” schedule.

No need to attribute to malice…

 

[th2421]

We haven’t beaten a top ranked team, sure. But I wouldn’t go so far as to say we have no good wins. We’ve played a much tougher schedule and even our “cupcake” games were mostly against teams who are likely to go on and win their conference.

That’s part of the issue. People are comparing this years team and the schedule they have played to last years team and the incredibly awful schedule they played in the pre-season. That schedule was a “save your job” schedule designed by the previous staff plus a couple cobbled together games against horrific teams to fill holes in our schedule.

I know Kim keeps saying the whole schedule has been more challenging this year, but aside from the obvious two (NC State and UCLA), I'm not sure I see it.

By this point last year we'd played (NET quadrants in parentheses):
- #23 Florida St. (Q1)
- #54 MTSU (Q2)
- #76 Liberty (Q3)
- #210 UT Martin (Q4)
- #255 Western Carolina (Q4)
- #271 Samford (Q4)

This year, outside of UCLA and NC State, we've played:
- #34 Stanford (Q1)
- #89 Belmont (Q3)
- #209 MTSU (Q4)
- #249 UT Martin (Q4)
- #296 Coppin State (Q4)

It would've looked more similar this year if MTSU wasn't having such a down year. The only bigger challenge this year is that Stanford, MTSU, and UT Martin were road games, and everything last year was at home.

Looking ahead, the Brooklyn games are similar (Q1 Iowa last year / Q1 Louisville this year) but last year we also had a Q1 neutral game with Richmond before SEC play.

 

[spojo13]

I know Kim keeps saying the whole schedule has been more challenging this year, but aside from the obvious two (NC State and UCLA), I'm not sure I see it.

By this point last year we'd played (NET quadrants in parentheses):
- #23 Florida St. (Q1)
- #54 MTSU (Q2)
- #76 Liberty (Q3)
- #210 UT Martin (Q4)
- #255 Western Carolina (Q4)
- #271 Samford (Q4)

This year, outside of UCLA and NC State, we've played:
- #34 Stanford (Q1)
- #89 Belmont (Q3)
- #209 MTSU (Q4)
- #249 UT Martin (Q4)
- #296 Coppin State (Q4)

It would've looked more similar this year if MTSU wasn't having such a down year. The only bigger challenge this year is that Stanford, MTSU, and UT Martin were road games, and everything last year was at home.

Looking ahead, the Brooklyn games are similar (Q1 Iowa last year / Q1 Louisville this year) but last year we also had a Q1 neutral game with Richmond before SEC play.

I pointed this out in a previous thread. The schedule up till now isn’t that much different aside from a few more road games. UCLA is MUCH tougher than anyone we played last year, but when everything is played by the end of December, I have a feeling the number of quad wins will look awfully similar. Now NC State could go on a run and beat up on a very down ACC league this year. Also, Martin may be better this year down the line, but looking at the facts at this point in time, the schedule isn’t that vastly different. I’m also completely fine with that due to the fact that we had so many new faces.

 

[volsagain]

Could just as easily have been an “LSU; why not?” schedule.

No need to attribute to malice…

It's working for LSU can't blame them for sticking to it. I really like playing the high profile games although it can have its downside. They usually generate more revenue for the school so it has a much greater upside. Apparently the system takes longer to get clicking and having larger turnover on the roster can be tough on a young team.