Lady Vols Unranked In Both Polls

#26
#26
RetroVol said:
Don't think that's exactly what the OP was saying in noting the need for player commitment. Again, it's not either/or. But, it is hard for a coach to evaluate a system when players choose to only run it sporadically, when they don't push through and commit with effort and focus when things aren't going well. So, if we weren't watching players loaf down the court on defense (on occasion, and not all players), not pass the ball (on occasion), wave at players going by them on defense (on occasion), etc. then you'd have an irrefutable position. I've already said that I think Kim and her staff are in a tough position for evaluating and changing their approach at this level due to spotty effort of this year's team. And, yes, in some ways, you can blame that on Kim and her staff. But, it is what it is at this point and they're going to have to get through the rest of this season as best they can. AND, I have also said that there are reasons -- some of which I've only started to think through this year -- to wonder about her system as-is at this level. So, typical "fog of war." She's going to have to consult with staff, look at everything, and make decisions without this year having been as good a test of her system against SEC competition that it could have been.
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My thing is if it’s so hard to run this system with the commitment and effort needed for it to be effective, then why do it? Play normal ball like these kids have played their entire lives.
 
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#29
#29
RetroVol said:
Don't think that's exactly what the OP was saying in noting the need for player commitment. Again, it's not either/or. But, it is hard for a coach to evaluate a system when players choose to only run it sporadically, when they don't push through and commit with effort and focus when things aren't going well. So, if we weren't watching players loaf down the court on defense (on occasion, and not all players), not pass the ball (on occasion), wave at players going by them on defense (on occasion), etc. then you'd have an irrefutable position. I've already said that I think Kim and her staff are in a tough position for evaluating and changing their approach at this level due to spotty effort of this year's team. And, yes, in some ways, you can blame that on Kim and her staff. But, it is what it is at this point and they're going to have to get through the rest of this season as best they can. AND, I have also said that there are reasons -- some of which I've only started to think through this year -- to wonder about her system as-is at this level. So, typical "fog of war." She's going to have to consult with staff, look at everything, and make decisions without this year having been as good a test of her system against SEC competition that it could have been.
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Typical chicken and egg. System hasn’t worked bc the players won’t buy in OR players dont buy in bc system doesn’t work. Once we change out the lazy greedy players they chose for this yrs squad for a team of trash can puking Polly Purebreds, we’ll find out.
vols90 said:
My thing is if it’s so hard to run this system with the commitment and effort needed for it to be effective, then why do it? Play normal ball like these kids have played their entire lives.
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Not only hard to run but hard to teach learn and train for. Classic example of work harder not smarter.
 
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#30
#30
glv98 said:
Typical chicken and egg. System hasn’t worked bc the players won’t buy in OR players dont buy in bc system doesn’t work. Once we change out the lazy greedy players they chose for this yrs squad for a team of trash can puking Polly Purebreds, we’ll find out.

Not only hard to run but hard to teach learn and train for. Classic example of work harder not smarter.
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All of which raises an interesting question for the staff...Hill to die on.jpg
 
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#31
#31
I'm sorry, I can never get into the system even being "hard" to learn in the first place. We don't do anything in the system that's hard. Its not like they have any plays to remember. Its one on one basketball, that's not a hard concept at all.

A one dimensional full court press and man to man, I learned those in pee-wee! :(

Yall help me out, what am I missing? Maybe my brain can process this season a little better if I can trick it into thinking this is a super hard system to learn with all new players.
 
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#34
#34
LadyVol1908 said:
I'm sorry, I can never get into the system even being "hard" to learn in the first place. We don't do anything in the system that's hard. Its not like they have any plays to remember. Its one on one basketball, that's not a hard concept at all.

A one dimensional full court press and man to man, I learned those in pee-wee! :(

Yall help me out, what am I missing? Maybe my brain can process this season a little better if I can trick it into thinking this is a super hard system to learn with all new players.
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I like to use the comparison to soccer tactics. There are teams that rely on a high press style for much of a 90 minute game. To do that well, you need great coordination among all players on the team. They have to press as a unit and learn how to shift positions so as not to leave wide open areas. It is like coordinated dance routine and there can be no passengers.

If done well, a high press can destroy teams that are not prepared for it but it does take a toll on the pressing team (you have to a deep squad to pull it off for a season.

On the flipside, teams that are really good on the ball and sharp passers can play their way past the press and it turns, you can often easily beat the high press with fast wingers and playing long balls over the top.

Among elite soccer teams, you are seeing a movement away from the over reliance on high pressing and it being used more selectively during games. If they recognize one backline player, for example, is not comfortable on the ball, they attack when it is in his or her possession.

In sum: In the world of soccer, even if you are really good at high pressing, it still has inherent vulnerable exploitabilities and works best as a surprise tactic.

I think these circumstances apply equally well to the world of basketball.
 
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#35
#35
All systems require effort and commitment. As far as her offense to see how it's supposed to run go back and watch her championship game. It's probably run like the offense the football team uses. Player movement will dictate where you put pressure on the defense what the defense reacts to or how they react determined the best shot. It does open up a lot of 3 point shots that's why you need good 3 point shooters. Not having good post play limits the offense to some degree and that's with any type system you run. Playing as a team working harder and smarter is what works for any team. The biggest problem I've seen is trapping and not getting the ball ends up easy baskets for the opponent. Got to stop the ball handler on transition to get the defense in position for stops .
 
#36
#36
madtownvol said:
If you assume that FInal Four appearances are a birthright of the program (which they effectively were during CPS's peak years), then...........
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If my geriatric memory is any good at all, only two programs are perennial FF participants: UCt, who only missed once due to massive injuries, and lower Carolina, who haven’t made it every year, but have been frequent attendees. I refer to the last decade. During that period we have done no better than the E8, and that only one time.

I was wrong. Stanford and Miss Muffett's Irish were also frequent FFers.

IMG_3591.jpeg
 
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#39
#39
1reVOLver said:
You are onto something here. You distinguish hopes and expectations. Many fans don’t. I share your hopes. My expectations, however, are based on facts rather than desires. Our program history over the past dozen years doesn’t justify a final four expectation in the immediate future.

The landscape has changed substantially in recent years. The portal has vastly increased—for better and worse—players' ability to change teams. NIL favors the few teams with lots of money to spend, and reduces the relative attraction of the LVs' proud history. Where once there were a handful of clearly exceptional teams competing for the top high school talent (and we were one of the very best), now there are many more. And sadly, our recent history of being pretty darn good but not exceptional is visible to all.

Coaching at the highest level is relatively immobile. Consider which coaches have won a natty or competed in the FF. McGraw retired. Van derVeer retired. Mulkey is nearing retirement age, and Auriemma is there. Frese is close behind. Ditto Shaefer. None of these is apt to move. All are already making lots of money.

Who else has championship level credentials? Dawn Staley. Earns a ton, is admired and appreciated where she has built a top notch program, has no incentive, monetary or otherwise, to change locales.

That leaves our AD a number of mid-major choices, one of whom is in her second year with us. I'm sure she is aiming at the E8 and FF. I'd be surprised if her players do not share those targets. Getting there may take a while. Among the P4 ranks, candidates might include the coaches at UNC , Louisville, and Duke, and for lots of reasons those are dicey or off the table.

Summing up, you and I share a hope. Expectations based in today’s reality are a little more modest than the hopes.
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Well composed! 🤙🏼
 
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#40
#40
glv98 said:
Typical chicken and egg. System hasn’t worked bc the players won’t buy in OR players dont buy in bc system doesn’t work. Once we change out the lazy greedy players they chose for this yrs squad for a team of trash can puking Polly Purebreds, we’ll find out.

Not only hard to run but hard to teach learn and train for. Classic example of work harder not smarter.
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Your anger is pushing a notable increase in your hyperbolic expression. I’m standing by for asplode…
 
#43
#43
I gotta say this, there is an old adage that the key to "perceived" coaching success is managing fan expectations. CKC has certainly done that. If the team can keep the LSU loss to a single digits, that will now be classified as a kind of "success." Whooohoo, we did not get embarrassed on national television!!

I do wonder if Danny White's jacket is feeling a little tighter these days......
 
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#44
#44
Golfteacher said:
Well the Lady Vols are unranked for the first time this year. I don’t that we can throw all the blame on CKC, or even their players. This mess falls squarely upon AD White. He hired a coach with no D1 experience at the highest level. She came with a new way of playing the game. Her scheme was to press the ball constantly, throw up a bunch of threes and ware the opponent down until they are dog tired by subbing hockey style. It is a style that has never been adopted by other major DI programs and a good chance it never will. Defences started playing zones daring the Lady Vols to shoot threes, however, especially major D1 programs, the Lady Vols threw up more bricks than threes. Players lost focus and as the season went on, they seem to ware out before their opponents.

After the failures to revive the Lady Vols by hiring two of Pat’s own former players, AD White went out and made an unconventional hire which was a gamble. CKC believes in her system and I give her kudos for that, however, it does not seem to work against major D1 programs like the top of the SEC. AD White has placed CKC in a no win situation especially after she said that she can only coach one way. He was willing to take a risk that CKC’s system would revive the Lady Vols. Great coaches have the ability to change up their system to meet the demands dictated by how other opponents play. We are at a turning point, CKC needs to change her system or find players who can get the job done. However, whatever the situation is the buck stops at AD White’s desk. I really believe that AD White needs to have a heart to heart talk with CKC.
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Brother, I think you mean “wear” rather than ware.
 
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#46
#46
Orange007 said:
i find myself in the minority lately around here but i actually really love the system and still believe in it. however, the system needs effort and shooters to work. this has never been a secret. she has said this since day one. so, without those things, the system does not work well against top competition. i guess the main question is will tn be able to have teams under CKC who give their ALL for TN and include some 3 point shooters. if so, i still believe we can be elite with CKC. if not, the wolves will keep circling the hen house. it is what it is...
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Doesn't any "system" need shooters and effort to work? Can any team be successful without shooters and effort?
 
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#47
#47
1reVOLver said:
If my geriatric memory is any good at all, only two programs are perennial FF participants: UCt, who only missed once due to massive injuries, and lower Carolina, who haven’t made it every year, but have been frequent attendees. I refer to the last decade. During that period we have done no better than the E8, and that only one time.

I was wrong. Stanford and Miss Muffett's Irish were also frequent FFers.

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You didn’t include last year
 
#48
#48
SNAFU said:
Imagine if Coach K started the way he did at Duke with this fan base’s patience. It hasn’t been 2 years with CKC. Will she adapt? I believe so. Will it work? Time will tell but if she’s let go after just 2 years than this program will likely be in worse shape than it currently is.
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Coach K had one thing working for him..... Duke was not a blue blood at that time..... The leash thus could be extended a little bit more and it was
 
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#49
#49
zeppelin128 said:
There's plenty of blame to go around, but the majority of the issues start and end with one person: Kim Caldwell.

AD White needs to swallow his pride, recognize he made a mistake, and rectify the situation.

The program has been teetering on a knife's edge for over a decade now; if allowed to continue, this "style" of play and coaching malpractice will kill it for good.
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I don't know if i would use the word "teetering",,,,, The school accepted Holly and Kellie to the point that it took them 7 years and 5 years respectively to decide that perhaps a change was warranted.

To me that signifies a great deal of acceptance rather than teetering
 
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#50
#50
volsagain said:
All systems require effort and commitment. As far as her offense to see how it's supposed to run go back and watch her championship game. It's probably run like the offense the football team uses. Player movement will dictate where you put pressure on the defense what the defense reacts to or how they react determined the best shot. It does open up a lot of 3 point shots that's why you need good 3 point shooters. Not having good post play limits the offense to some degree and that's with any type system you run. Playing as a team working harder and smarter is what works for any team. The biggest problem I've seen is trapping and not getting the ball ends up easy baskets for the opponent. Got to stop the ball handler on transition to get the defense in position for stops .
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The teams at that level (Division II) do not have the level of talent that is in Division I. The only way this works against the best teams at this level is by having twice as many of the 'best of the best' players that the opponent does.

UCONN and South Carolina schooled her on just where this offense fails.
 
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