Lady Vols All Time Starting 5 !!

#26

NoBackBoard

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#26
Looks fairly contemplated and justified. Warlick was the selection for PG. I feel you could make a case for Dena Head or Michelle Marciniak to replace her given their leading their respective teams to NC’s.

In all fairness it seems scandalous to leave off names such as Charles, Gordon, Brogdon, Roberts, and S. Collins.
Dena would be my pick.
 
#29

stlvolsfan

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#29
No disrespect to Holly, and I'm not conflating my feelings about her as coach with her playing abilities...but no way would I have her on that list. Her game, unlike the other choices, does not translate well to the modern game. I would have picked Nikki McCray, Semeka Randall or even Rennia Davis (who is probably the best Tennessee player who completely flew under the radar over her career) as the off-guard with Lawson as the PG.
Completely agree!
 
#30

volman128

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#30
Don't need to look. The 1998 starting 5 would beat anyone put in front of them.
No way should Geter or Stephens be on the list over Parker (or probably like ten other post players, TBH). And Randall shouldn't be on the list over Lawson or McCray.

Id remove K Law , i know she was great an all , but she didnt get us a Nati . Id add either Randall or Jolly instead .
It's not all about getting a NC. Peyton Manning never won a NC but that doesn't make Tee Martin a better QB. Lawson and McCray are the best players to not have their jerseys retired at UT and neither one won a NC. They both have Olympic Gold medals and had great pro careers, neither of which Jolly or Randall had.

I'd take Jolly but I'd put her over Warlick, not Lawson.
 
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#34

Amb3096

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#34
Jolly played with Holdsclaw , Catchings and Randall i think they do win regardless who runs PG on that team.
I think that's his point. Kellie player her role to perfection to help Tennessee win 3 NCs, but a larger piece of that was Holdsclaw and then later Catchings and Randall. Hard to hold Kara's lack of NC titles against her because if you swapped in Kellie for Kara on the 2003 team, they still would have lost the NC game to UConn.
 
#35

Darth_Vol

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#35
You Kellie stans crack me up. She was a great college player but when you look at the the All Americans and Olympians that have come through here, she isn't even one of the top five Lady Vol point guards, let alone putting her in the all time starting five...
 
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#37

volman128

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#37
You Kellie stans crack me up. She was a great college player but when you look at the the All Americans and Olympians that have come through here, she isn't even one of the top five Lady Vol point guards, let alone putting her in the all time starting five...
I don't agree with this at all. I think she's arguably the best pure PG in UT history which is why I consistently pick her for an all-time team. If you want to pick the five best players in general, no you wouldn't pick her. If you pick the five best players by position, she's not a bad choice at all. Not a top five PG? That's a downright ridiculous statement. I'm not high on Kellie as a coach whatsoever, but she was a great player that played her role to perfection, and her return is why we won in 1997. The team came together in large part due to her return, and she had ten assists in the NC game, IIRC.

We don't have a lot of AAs or Olympians that were point guards, other than Holly, Lawson, who was more of a combo guard, and Lea Henry who was an Olympian in '84. Sheila Collins was not a PG; she may have played it some, but so did Meighan Simmons and Shekinna Stricklen. In terms of pure PG skills, she was a better PG than Warlick, Henry, Sexton, Marciniak, Lawson (who was a combo guard), Moore, Bobbitt or Massengale. The only other ones that I would potentially pick over her were combo guards, which are Lawson (who I would have on the team anyway) or Dena Head, which are both respectable picks. But if you pick Lawson at PG you have to pick McCray or Randall at SG -- or have both Lawson and Head on the team (which wouldn't be a bad combo); McCray was a forward and Randall never learned to shoot. Having a backcourt of two players that can shoot the three would be preferable.
 
#38

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#38
I don't agree with this at all. I think she's arguably the best pure PG in UT history which is why I consistently pick her for an all-time team. If you want to pick the five best players in general, no you wouldn't pick her. If you pick the five best players by position, she's not a bad choice at all. Not a top five PG? That's a downright ridiculous statement. I'm not high on Kellie as a coach whatsoever, but she was a great player that played her role to perfection, and her return is why we won in 1997. The team came together in large part due to her return, and she had ten assists in the NC game, IIRC.

We don't have a lot of AAs or Olympians that were point guards, other than Holly, Lawson, who was more of a combo guard, and Lea Henry who was an Olympian in '84. Sheila Collins was not a PG; she may have played it some, but so did Meighan Simmons and Shekinna Stricklen. In terms of pure PG skills, she was a better PG than Warlick, Henry, Sexton, Marciniak, Lawson (who was a combo guard), Moore, Bobbitt or Massengale. The only other ones that I would potentially pick over her were combo guards, which are Lawson (who I would have on the team anyway) or Dena Head, which are both respectable picks. But if you pick Lawson at PG you have to pick McCray or Randall at SG -- or have both Lawson and Head on the team (which wouldn't be a bad combo); McCray was a forward and Randall never learned to shoot. Having a backcourt of two players that can shoot the three would be preferable.
Stop. The Moores, Bobbitts, and Massengales are debatable, but talents like Warlick, Henry, Edwards, Head, Marciniak, and Lawson were all better point guards and it isn't that close. People romanticize Kellie because she played with the greatest player in program history and the greatest team in program history. If she played in the non-Meek era, she would be just another good point guard. She was a great college role player, never close to an All-American level, never had more than a cup of coffee as a professional...
 
#39

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#39
Parker, Holdsclaw, Catchings are going to make the list for just about everyone. Some might want to make a cases for Daedra Charles and Bridgette Gordon and they are legit contenders. However, on balance, I think they would be reserves on the all-time playing behind the big 3.

Dena Head has a strong case--Marciniak was better than Kellie. Lawson was better than Marcininiak.

But, it is easy to overlook Shannon Bobbitt who was quite integral to the LV's back to back NCs. Only 5'2, she proved to be more one of the ferocious defenders in LV history. Her lateral quickness was almost superhuman. During her senior year, she developed a pretty consistent three point shot and ran the floor like a boss.
So, I would put Shannon and Lawson in my starting five.
 
#40
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#40
I don't agree with this at all. I think she's arguably the best pure PG in UT history which is why I consistently pick her for an all-time team. If you want to pick the five best players in general, no you wouldn't pick her. If you pick the five best players by position, she's not a bad choice at all. Not a top five PG? That's a downright ridiculous statement. I'm not high on Kellie as a coach whatsoever, but she was a great player that played her role to perfection, and her return is why we won in 1997. The team came together in large part due to her return, and she had ten assists in the NC game, IIRC.

We don't have a lot of AAs or Olympians that were point guards, other than Holly, Lawson, who was more of a combo guard, and Lea Henry who was an Olympian in '84. Sheila Collins was not a PG; she may have played it some, but so did Meighan Simmons and Shekinna Stricklen. In terms of pure PG skills, she was a better PG than Warlick, Henry, Sexton, Marciniak, Lawson (who was a combo guard), Moore, Bobbitt or Massengale. The only other ones that I would potentially pick over her were combo guards, which are Lawson (who I would have on the team anyway) or Dena Head, which are both respectable picks. But if you pick Lawson at PG you have to pick McCray or Randall at SG -- or have both Lawson and Head on the team (which wouldn't be a bad combo); McCray was a forward and Randall never learned to shoot. Having a backcourt of two players that can shoot the three would be preferable.
You're debating with Darth_Huskie
Might as well be
 
#41

xtpsrh08123

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#41
I think that's his point. Kellie player her role to perfection to help Tennessee win 3 NCs, but a larger piece of that was Holdsclaw and then later Catchings and Randall. Hard to hold Kara's lack of NC titles against her because if you swapped in Kellie for Kara on the 2003 team, they still would have lost the NC game to UConn.
If that was his point i missed it. I stated remove K Law and Add Randall , im not stanning for Jolly to be on the team ....
 
#43

volman128

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#43
Stop. The Moores, Bobbitts, and Massengales are debatable, but talents like Warlick, Henry, Edwards, Head, Marciniak, and Lawson were all better point guards and it isn't that close. People romanticize Kellie because she played with the greatest player in program history and the greatest team in program history. If she played in the non-Meek era, she would be just another good point guard. She was a great college role player, never close to an All-American level, never had more than a cup of coffee as a professional...
LMAO, where do I start first?

I've seen tape on all those players that I didn't see in person. None of them were as good of a true PG as Kellie -- setting up players, passing, reading the defense, hitting shots when needed, a/to ratio. Henry was a great PG but she wouldn't have made the Olympic team (or even come close) without Pat being the coach. Still, I think she and Kellie were the best true PGs in UT history. Holly couldn't hit the broad side of a barn in her playing days but she was a good passer and defender. Edwards was good. I forgot about her. She still wasn't as good of a PG as Jolly and wasn't a true PG. She's similar to Dena Head in that way, and those two split PG when they played.

Jolly was a better point guard than Marciniak, and, as you said, It IsNt ThAt ClOsE. And Moore was a much better PG than Marciniak, too, who was incredibly inconsistent and made a ton of dumb mistakes and turnovers for a PG. She could pass but her a/to ratio wasn't good. Even Massengale was a better POINT GUARD than Marciniak. She may have been a better SCORER, but she wasn't a better POINT GUARD.

Honestly you should list Dawn Marsh, who holds the career record and season record for assists, over someone like Marciniak,

I think if push comes to shove I would put Dena Head and Kara Lawson in the backcourt if I'm picking the five best players. But if I need a pure PG for the team, I'm putting Kellie, with Kara at SG.
 
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#44

volman128

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#44
But, it is easy to overlook Shannon Bobbitt who was quite integral to the LV's back to back NCs. Only 5'2, she proved to be more one of the ferocious defenders in LV history. Her lateral quickness was almost superhuman. During her senior year, she developed a pretty consistent three point shot and ran the floor like a boss.
So, I would put Shannon and Lawson in my starting five.
I love Shannon but she shouldn't be near this discussion.
 
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#47

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#47
It speaks volumes to the program that there is discussion and dispute for an all-time best starting five. It’s definitely arguable, but if Autumn Johnson’s suggested starting five were the once-and-for-all chosen few, that would still leave 9 (n-i-n-e!) former Olympian’s on the bench—one (Charles) of whom was a Wade Trophy winner and another (Gordon) that was a Honda Sports Award winner along with a bevy of All-Americans, national champions, and a variety of national award winners. Stupefyingly storied here.....
 
#48

volman128

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#48
I guess that doesn't include the year Jolly backed up Marciniak, who was THE point guard to lead the team to one of those championships Kellie "won." But, not even close.

Keep stanning...
You mean when Jolly was a freshman and Marciniak was a senior? I'm not sure what kind of idiotic logic that is.

Your disdain for Kellie as a coach (which I mostly share) is affecting your judgment of her as a player.
 
#49

Darth_Vol

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#49
You mean when Jolly was a freshman and Marciniak was a senior? I'm not sure what kind of idiotic logic that is.
That would be your idiotic logic, when you said Marciniak wasn't even "close" the the point guard Jolly was. Pat has certainly never hesitated to pull an "incredibly inconsistent and made a ton of dumb mistakes and turnovers" upperclassman point guard (hello Ace Clement) for a freshman. Maybe you should choose your words more carefully.

Your disdain for Kellie as a coach (which I mostly share) is affecting your judgment of her as a player.
Coaching has nothing to do with this discussion. I was driving the "fire Holly" bandwagon long before the rest of you jumped on, but I still respect that her jersey hangs in the rafters for her playing accomplishments at Tennessee and beyond. I like Kellie the player a lot, but as I said too many exaggerate her importance because of the era she played in. If you hypothetically put a Loree Moore or an Arial Massengale, for example, instead of Jolly on those Chamique teams, then Moore or Massengale would have championship rings. If you put Kellie on the teams Moore and Massengale played on, she would have been just another good point guard who played at Tennessee...
 

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