KY Forum's take on UT/GA blowout, Crean and Barnes

[butchna]

I don't know why the kids have to be the victims of the NBA's shortsightedness. How about some due diligence? Pass over the risky kids, pay the ones that can compete from day one.

How can you tell? Robert Swift dominated his competition. 7 footer against 6’4. Anybody remember Felipe Lopez. No doubt sure thing who signed with St John’s before the one and done was in existence. Played a season anyway and got exposed. Not a scout out there that called that.

 

[KoachKrab127]

I don't know why the kids have to be the victims of the NBA's shortsightedness. How about some due diligence? Pass over the risky kids, pay the ones that can compete from day one.

How are the kids victims? If they don't get millions of dollars because we find out that when they play college ball they aren't good enough, that means they are victims? They still get a full scholarship (which is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars at a place like Duke, nowadays), and a chance at a real education if take advantage of it. It's near impossible to make the pros, and it should be.

 

[Daloth]

How are the kids victims? If they don't get millions of dollars because we find out that when they play college ball they aren't good enough, that means they are victims? They still get a full scholarship (which is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars at a place like Duke, nowadays), and a chance at a real education if take advantage of it. It's near impossible to make the pros, and it should be.

The kids are victims because the rule is to protect billionaires who don't know the game as well as they wish from losing a tiny fraction of their fortunes on someone who isn't worth the investment. The NBA is a business, and the owners got together and said "we are really bad at evaluating if a kid at this age is good enough or not to use a draft pick on, so we are just going to tell them they can't do it instead of getting better at it, praise capitalism we literally own these players and can do this."

And anyone who is still dumb enough to think a college education, even at private universities, is worthy payment to the effort most of these athletes put in and the money they bring universities knows so little about sports that they probably still think Jordan is the GOAT because he has rings and never lost to average opponents in finals with some of the most loaded teams and coaches all time.

 

[VolGee4]

The kids are victims because the rule is to protect billionaires who don't know the game as well as they wish from losing a tiny fraction of their fortunes on someone who isn't worth the investment. The NBA is a business, and the owners got together and said "we are really bad at evaluating if a kid at this age is good enough or not to use a draft pick on, so we are just going to tell them they can't do it instead of getting better at it, praise capitalism we literally own these players and can do this."

And anyone who is still dumb enough to think a college education, even at private universities, is worthy payment to the effort most of these athletes put in and the money they bring universities knows so little about sports that they probably still think Jordan is the GOAT because he has rings and never lost to average opponents in finals with some of the most loaded teams and coaches all time.

There is so much to respond to this, but it sounds like you have it figured out.

 

[Dr H Lecter]

My eyes have been opened. I didn’t realize these poor young men were being forced to play basketball against their will. Are they made to play it in high school too? We need to get Washington to investigate this immediately.

 

[rickyyrs]

I’ve learned one thing reading their boards.... in the history of college basketball the only reason they have ever lost a game is because the mighty Kentucky wildcats are everybody’s super bowl!!! In all seriousness the level of elitism by their fan base is truly disgusting. It’s also funny during football season they act like tradition doesn’t mean anything, that it’s about what you’ve done lately... but my lord when it comes to basketball all they talk about is their tradition, and basically no one is even worthy of stepping on the hardwood with them because they don’t have the history to. Their fans are straight up god awful.

I hear it alot, but you forgot one thing. If Kentucky losses, the refs were against them all night. But Ky fans forget if you play at Rupp you play Kentucky and the Rupp Refs.

 

[Dr H Lecter]

I don’t believe all Kentucky fans are crazy. I just believe crazy people gravitate there.

 

[KoachKrab127]

The kids are victims because the rule is to protect billionaires who don't know the game as well as they wish from losing a tiny fraction of their fortunes on someone who isn't worth the investment. The NBA is a business, and the owners got together and said "we are really bad at evaluating if a kid at this age is good enough or not to use a draft pick on, so we are just going to tell them they can't do it instead of getting better at it, praise capitalism we literally own these players and can do this."

And anyone who is still dumb enough to think a college education, even at private universities, is worthy payment to the effort most of these athletes put in and the money they bring universities knows so little about sports that they probably still think Jordan is the GOAT because he has rings and never lost to average opponents in finals with some of the most loaded teams and coaches all time.

Like VolGee said, there is lots to unload there. I'll agree with you on this: I have no problem with exploring the idea of paying college athletes. Never said I was against that. I agree that, often, they bring in more money to the university than they are compensated for. But nothing is going to convince me that 18 year-olds are victims because they have to wait 1 year to play in the NBA. If they don't want to go to college, they don't have to. They can play in Europe for a year and make money that way. Maybe the NBA could also develop a better minor league for these guys, but I do enjoy watching the most talented 18 year olds in the world on college teams.

 

[BreatheUT]

Some interesting comments from Big Blue Nation yesterday. The guy hoping Barnes will take the UCLA job was noteworthy to say the least..

UT destroying Clappy | CatsIllustrated.com

To me the silliest thing about the thread is Vols fans begging for respect and seeking validation. Remind me of where we can't get rival fans to leave on a thread about them.

 

[Dr H Lecter]

When I cruise through Cats Pause, most of what I see are fans fighting each other and calling someone out for being a hater or pumper. Very little civil discourse. Much like this place will be after our next loss. I used to think the politicians were the cause of the state of discourse and lack of civility. Now I think it’s just a reflection of the people they represent.

 

[therealitytheory]

When I cruise through Cats Pause, most of what I see are fans fighting each other and calling someone out for being a hater or pumper. Very little civil discourse. Much like this place will be after our next loss. I used to think the politicians were the cause of the state of discourse and lack of civility. Now I think it’s just a reflection of the people they represent.

A little unfair, since UK fan's frustrations are mostly about the systemic failure of Cal's revolving-door rosters. Whereas when we lose it'll likely be chalked up to a cold-shooting night or key players foul trouble. Up north they see talented teen mercenaries not able to overcome their lack of experience and cohesion fast enough. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Dr H Lecter]

A little unfair, since UK fan's frustrations are mostly about the systemic failure of Cal's revolving-door rosters. Whereas when we lose it'll likely be chalked up to a cold-shooting night or key players foul trouble. Up north they see talented teen mercenaries not able to overcome their lack of experience and cohesion fast enough. Rinse and repeat.

I hope you’re right. Guess we’ll just have to wait and see. I hope the wait is a long one.

 

[vols1221]

The kids are victims because the rule is to protect billionaires who don't know the game as well as they wish from losing a tiny fraction of their fortunes on someone who isn't worth the investment. The NBA is a business, and the owners got together and said "we are really bad at evaluating if a kid at this age is good enough or not to use a draft pick on, so we are just going to tell them they can't do it instead of getting better at it, praise capitalism we literally own these players and can do this."

And anyone who is still dumb enough to think a college education, even at private universities, is worthy payment to the effort most of these athletes put in and the money they bring universities knows so little about sports that they probably still think Jordan is the GOAT because he has rings and never lost to average opponents in finals with some of the most loaded teams and coaches all time.

You must not be old enough to remember MJ. He is in fact the GOAT, and that opinion is shared by most knowledgeable basketball fans. No modern players can match what MJ did on offense, and defense. First player in history with 200 steels, and a hundred blocks in a season while also averaging 37 ppl. One of two players ever to break 3,000 points in a season. Still hold the record for most points in a playoff game 63. Only rookie to lead his team in points, rebounds, assists and steals. Only guard to record 2500+ points over 5 consecutive regular seasons. Only player to tally 250+ steals, 125+ blocks in the same season. Jordan is the only player to average 40+ points per game for an entire playoff series more than twice, and he's done it 5 TIMES! One of those came in the 1993 NBA Finals against the Phoenix Suns, while the other 4 came in the Eastern Conference playoffs (once against the Cavaliers in 1988, in which he averaged 45.2 ppg - the highest for any player in a single playoff series).

Everything in bold was sourced from

Page 5 - Michael Jordan stats - 5 untouchable feats of His Airness

 

[Daloth]

My eyes have been opened. I didn’t realize these poor young men were being forced to play basketball against their will. Are they made to play it in high school too? We need to get Washington to investigate this immediately.

The hilarity is your attempt at being facetious underscores how little you understand about college athletics as a whole. Try watching the Crack Baby Athletic Association for a dumbed down so simple even bias fools can get it version of just how it really works.

The reality is, a very large portion of these kids ARE forced to play sports in order to get away from the alternative of selling drugs or just being dead.

If you're actually dumb enough to think a multi billion dollar industry paying the talent and product 100% responsible for said industry nothing, and claiming its "good for them" because.... oh right. There is no good aspect of any of these kids not making the money they deserve. The only people who seem to still think ameaturism is a thing that matters for college sports are the same who think a border wal is smart and sound and use the word uppity and thug to describe very specific people.

 

[Dr H Lecter]

The hilarity is your attempt at being facetious underscores how little you understand about college athletics as a whole. Try watching the Crack Baby Athletic Association for a dumbed down so simple even bias fools can get it version of just how it really works.

The reality is, a very large portion of these kids ARE forced to play sports in order to get away from the alternative of selling drugs or just being dead.

If you're actually dumb enough to think a multi billion dollar industry paying the talent and product 100% responsible for said industry nothing, and claiming its "good for them" because.... oh right. There is no good aspect of any of these kids not making the money they deserve. The only people who seem to still think ameaturism is a thing that matters for college sports are the same who think a border wal is smart and sound and use the word uppity and thug to describe very specific people.

I appreciate your passion. Use it for good in your life. Sounds like you’ve got this thing all figured out and don’t need further input from me.

 

[Daloth]

You must not be old enough to remember MJ. He is in fact the GOAT, and that opinion is shared by most knowledgeable basketball fans. No modern players can match what MJ did on offense, and defense. First player in history with 200 steels, and a hundred blocks in a season while also averaging 37 ppl. One of two players ever to break 3,000 points in a season. Still hold the record for most points in a playoff game 63. Only rookie to lead his team in points, rebounds, assists and steals. Only guard to record 2500+ points over 5 consecutive regular seasons. Only player to tally 250+ steals, 125+ blocks in the same season. Jordan is the only player to average 40+ points per game for an entire playoff series more than twice, and he's done it 5 TIMES! One of those came in the 1993 NBA Finals against the Phoenix Suns, while the other 4 came in the Eastern Conference playoffs (once against the Cavaliers in 1988, in which he averaged 45.2 ppg - the highest for any player in a single playoff series).

Everything in bold was sourced from

Page 5 - Michael Jordan stats - 5 untouchable feats of His Airness

I've watched and studied more basketball than the average person has spent studying for a masters degree, and ive written on Jordan before. Try these stats on for size (and unlike you, I don't have to cite someone else)

Jordan never won a playoff series without Pippen, Onle won one playoff GAME without pippen, despite having near 40ppg in those, including a then rookie record scoring average. He never had a series he wasn't favored in in the finals, and was part of 5 of the 10 BEST statistical TEAMS (as in, OTHER than him) ever, including 3 of the top 5, and until recently, was 2 of the top 3.

For comparison Lebron single handedly dragged two of the worst three teams (again, other than him statistically) to the finals ever. Both times against two of the three best dynasties since the 80s. The only worse team to reach the finals? Iverson's 76ers.

But whats that matter, After all when Jordan left the Bulls for his "baseball" (gambling ban) they were terrible and all right? Oh, wait. Pippen just destroyed everyone, finished 3rd in MVP voting, and the team only had two less wins than the year before? But Jordan is the GOAT right? How was his team so damn good without him? Surely it couldn't be the top 30 player all time, the best defensives player and rebounder of his generation, and the GOAT NBA coach who also just happened to be on that team, right?

People who still argue Jordan as the best are the same who think Tom Brady is too, without wanting to mention literally everything else factored in.

If you can plug random player #46 and your team not drop off very far? You have a great team. If missing one player makes your team go from championship caliber to lottery bad? You have a GOAT potential player.

This isn't a hard concept, but its the same deal as any generation in anything else. Everyone wants what they grew up in to be the best, and the facts are it never was and never will be. In 25 years someone will outpace Lebron just as he has been better than Jordan for years already now. It won't be anyone currently because the only potential candidates had to literally form a super team of six hall of fame caliber players and one sure fire (maybe two depending on how good Walton ends up being) hall of fame coaches to stop him. And they still barely did it.

Again. Two guys of Jordan's tier and 4 more of Pippen's tier had to get together and be coached by a guy just below Red/Riley/Popovich/Jackson's level just to beat ONE player.

If that isn't the GOAT, then you don't understand the meaning of the word.

 

[volfaninky]

I hear it alot, but you forgot one thing. If Kentucky losses, the refs were against them all night. But Ky fans forget if you play at Rupp you play Kentucky and the Rupp Refs.

They are called RUPPAREES and sometimes they travel with them on the road

 

[Daloth]

I appreciate your passion. Use it for good in your life. Sounds like you’ve got this thing all figured out and don’t need further input from me.

Figured out? No. But having been a college athlete, and having many friends who still are in all levels, it doesn't take much to realize who understands it and who doesn't.

No different than people thinking marijuana is "bad" because they were told so by big companies back in the 50s, people of an older era somehow think that college athletes should be in it for the fun and the education, and that alone should be good enough. There's a reason we are the only country in the world who mixes college and athletics, because they truly have nothing to do wtih each other, and the ONLY reason so many think they should is because way back when it started to blow up and make tons of money (See Notre Dame and NBC) the people at the very top figured out a way to keep as much money for themselves as possible. College athletes are just modern indentured servants at best, and to think otherwise is just ignorance of history.

The athletes are the salesman, the assembly line, and the product itself, and they get the least bit of the pie on top of being heavily restricted to the point you can't eat certain things at visits and if you wan't to go back home or have a life issue you have to appeal to transfer and play again.

It's a flawless business model for the Mark Emmert's, so why would they ever change?

 

[VolPack22]

LeBron is 3-6 in Finals. Realistically should be 1-8 if not for the most clutch shot ever by Ray Allen and a Draymond Green suspension coupled with the second most clutch shot by Kyrie Irving. Sorry but LeBron is on Jerry West’s level win it comes to the Finals. Every great player has the stats but it’s the winning that separates the best from the rest. If LeBron is the greatest, why is he 3-5 in Finals whenever he’s had 2 other All-Stars on his teams? End of discussion.

 

[k-town_king]

I've watched and studied more basketball than the average person has spent studying for a masters degree, and ive written on Jordan before. Try these stats on for size (and unlike you, I don't have to cite someone else)

Jordan never won a playoff series without Pippen, Onle won one playoff GAME without pippen, despite having near 40ppg in those, including a then rookie record scoring average. He never had a series he wasn't favored in in the finals, and was part of 5 of the 10 BEST statistical TEAMS (as in, OTHER than him) ever, including 3 of the top 5, and until recently, was 2 of the top 3.

For comparison Lebron single handedly dragged two of the worst three teams (again, other than him statistically) to the finals ever. Both times against two of the three best dynasties since the 80s. The only worse team to reach the finals? Iverson's 76ers.

But whats that matter, After all when Jordan left the Bulls for his "baseball" (gambling ban) they were terrible and all right? Oh, wait. Pippen just destroyed everyone, finished 3rd in MVP voting, and the team only had two less wins than the year before? But Jordan is the GOAT right? How was his team so damn good without him? Surely it couldn't be the top 30 player all time, the best defensives player and rebounder of his generation, and the GOAT NBA coach who also just happened to be on that team, right?

People who still argue Jordan as the best are the same who think Tom Brady is too, without wanting to mention literally everything else factored in.

If you can plug random player #46 and your team not drop off very far? You have a great team. If missing one player makes your team go from championship caliber to lottery bad? You have a GOAT potential player.

This isn't a hard concept, but its the same deal as any generation in anything else. Everyone wants what they grew up in to be the best, and the facts are it never was and never will be. In 25 years someone will outpace Lebron just as he has been better than Jordan for years already now. It won't be anyone currently because the only potential candidates had to literally form a super team of six hall of fame caliber players and one sure fire (maybe two depending on how good Walton ends up being) hall of fame coaches to stop him. And they still barely did it.

Again. Two guys of Jordan's tier and 4 more of Pippen's tier had to get together and be coached by a guy just below Red/Riley/Popovich/Jackson's level just to beat ONE player.

If that isn't the GOAT, then you don't understand the meaning of the word.

You cant actually be serious. LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO

You think the Warriors have two Jordan caliber players, there are none, and 4 pippens? That may be the dumbest sports post ever. WOW




Jordan never had more than one All Star and went 6-0 in the Finals,

Lebron has never won without at least two multiple time All Stars and usually three or four.

On a team with 4 HOF, 3 in their prime Lebron gets shut down by Jason Terry and loses to a team with one All Star player.

Wade and Kryie both put up better numbers than Pip and are on his level or better. Plus LBJ had either a Bosh or Love All Star player too.

Without miracles shots from Allen and Kyrie James is 1-8. MJ never had to go to a game 7.

MJ never had to beat a 70 win team because he made the 70 win team. MJ has beat more 50 and 60 win teams in less seasons. LBJ has faced more losing teams.

MJ never lost as a favorite. Lebron multiple collapses.

MJ better scorer and defender. The two most important things. For the size difference just as good a rebounder. Has the passing ability but Lebron a more willing passer after he holds it for 19 seconds.

Jordan has the greatest single season and postseason performances in history.

 

[k-town_king]

LeBron is 3-6 in Finals. Realistically should be 1-8 if not for the most clutch shot ever by Ray Allen and a Draymond Green suspension coupled with the second most clutch shot by Kyrie Irving. Sorry but LeBron is on Jerry West’s level win it comes to the Finals. Every great player has the stats but it’s the winning that separates the best from the rest. If LeBron is the greatest, why is he 3-5 in Finals whenever he’s had 2 other All-Stars on his teams? End of discussion.

He is Larry Bird level with less winning but a much healthier career.

 

[VolPack22]

He is Larry Bird level with less winning but a much healthier career.

I was just referring to the Finals record. If it weren’t for his teammates having clutch shots, we would be asking if LeBron has been the worst in Finals history. 1-8 could’ve been a very real possibility. Instead those 2 shots have completely changed his legacy. But yes he has been very similar to Bird. Jerry West did put up some insane numbers though. I think he scored something like 30 ppg in 4 different seasons. And he averaged 27, 6 and 6. So pretty similar career numbers.

 

[k-town_king]

I was just referring to the Finals record. If it weren’t for his teammates having clutch shots, we would be asking if LeBron has been the worst in Finals history. 1-8 could’ve been a very real possibility. Instead those 2 shots have completely changed his legacy. But yes he has been very similar to Bird.

I agree with that.

He really could be 0-9.

The refs gave him the first win so he wouldn't be Jerry West. They got away with murder vs OKC.

Then the two bailouts.

 

[VolPack22]

I agree with that.

He really could be 0-9.

The refs gave him the first win so he wouldn't be Jerry West. They got away with murder vs OKC.

Then the two bailouts.

Yeah that foul should’ve sent KD to the line and he would’ve been down 0-2. Doubt they would’ve come back from that.

 

[VolPack22]

And he’s been swept twice and lost 4-1 twice. And gave up a 2-0 lead by losing 4 straight. That right there disqualifies you from GOAT conversations.