Knox County Passes Mandatory Indoor Face Masks

#526
#526
kcvols1 said:
1. Wut? You should re-read, think a bit, then re-read again if you reach the same conclusion.

2. See generally the Administrative Procedure Act of 1946 and 74 years of derivative legislation and jurisprudence relating thereto.
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And I'll ask you to think a bit. Where does the TN Constitution authorize the legislature to delegate its authority? Please cite the actual Constitution, not some court case that derived it out of thin air.
 
#527
#527
macrovol said:
And I'll ask you to think a bit. Where does the TN Constitution authorize the legislature to delegate its authority? Please cite the actual Constitution, not some court case that derived it out of thin air.
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I think Article 7, section 4 should apply to the Knox County government generally, and to the Health Board by extension.

So did the sheriff have a citation for his position?
 
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#528
#528
DinkinFlicka said:
Our approach worked well the past two nights but the 4th weekend is historically mild in Knoxville as far as bars. We'll see how it goes next week.

There was one guy who came in Friday, walked up to my key bartender and asked us "they're still making you do that?" in reference to our masks, to which I responded by tossing a mask to him and telling him it goes both ways. He made some snide remark and walked out. Today, he returned in a MAGA hat, harassed my hostess until my bouncer confronted him. He then whipped out his phone and started recording as I came up and nudged him off our property and told him to come back when he wanted to cease his crusade. He stormed off to an applause from our patio guests.

2020 is so ****ing weird. Regardless of where you stand politically, it's so strange to harangue a business for its practices as though you literally have nothing better to do. I think he was a mental case and I didn't want to see it escalate beyond trying to **** my hostess and insult my staff.
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He sounds like a true Mensa member
 
#529
#529
kcvols1 said:
I think Article 7, section 4 should apply to the Knox County government generally, and to the Health Board by extension.

So did the sheriff have a citation for his position?
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"Section 4. The election of officers, and the filling of all vacancies not other-
wise directed or provided by this Constitution, shall be made in such manner
as the Legislature shall direct."

Nice try, but no.
 
#531
#531
So,
macrovol said:
"Section 4. The election of officers, and the filling of all vacancies not other-
wise directed or provided by this Constitution, shall be made in such manner
as the Legislature shall direct."

Nice try, but no.
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Thanks for your opinion, your Honor.

Still no citation from the sheriff in support of his position, then?
 
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#534
#534
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#536
#536
kcvols1 said:
Of course there is, but which statute are you talking about here?

Which portion of the constitution does the sheriff believe the mask mandate violates?
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All of it. The legislature can only do what it is authorized to do. It doesn't have the authority to do anything it wants just because the constitution doesn't prohibit it.
 
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#537
#537
macrovol said:
All of it. The legislature can only do what it is authorized to do. It doesn't have the authority to do anything it wants just because the constitution doesn't prohibit it.
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I agree generally, but the Tennessee Constitution provides a broad grant to the legislature in the portion I quoted.

I’ll help you.

Art. 7, Sec. 4 authorizes the legislature to create the board because the board isn’t specifically created in the 2014 constitution.

Tenn. Code 68-2-601, et seq. authorizes the creation of all municipal and county health boards in Tennessee

Knox County Code of Ordinances 38-31 through 38-33; 38-59 through 31-60 govern the selection, composition, term, and jurisdiction of the board.

That’ll be $200 bucks.

I’m rounding up to a full hour because that’s my minimum for holding hands of difficult clients.
 
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#539
#539
kcvols1 said:
I agree generally, but the Tennessee Constitution provides a broad grant to the legislature in the portion I quoted.

I’ll help you.

Art. 7, Sec. 4 authorizes the legislature to create the board because the board isn’t specifically created in the 2014 constitution.

Tenn. Code 68-2-601, et seq. authorizes the creation of all municipal and county health boards in Tennessee

Knox County Code of Ordinances 38-31 through 38-33; 38-59 through 31-60 govern the selection, composition, term, and jurisdiction of the board.

That’ll be $200 bucks.

I’m rounding up to a full hour because that’s my minimum for holding hands of difficult clients.
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Article 7, Sec 4 does no such thing, and the rest of your argument hinges on that. You seem to be a practicing attorney. If so, I'm not surprised you read into something that simply isn't there. It's your nature.
 
#540
#540
macrovol said:
Article 7, Sec 4 does no such thing, and the rest of your argument hinges on that. You seem to be a practicing attorney. If so, I'm not surprised you read into something that simply isn't there. It's your nature.
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So what if I was an attorney? It’s basic reading comprehension, there’s no trick to it. Broad language confers broad authority. Narrow language confers narrow authority. Both can exist in constitutions depending on how they’re written.

Even strict constructionists would agree with this.

For example of how a specific grant works, see the commerce clause and the interstate highway system.

For a broad grant like the one in the Tennessee constitution, see the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution. I can only assume the authors of the Tennessee constitution felt they didn’t have to list our health departments because the legislature and local governments would be staffed with people who would be able to fashion local laws that best suited each local community.

It’s the strength of American democracy in that it doesn’t actually run from the top down. To govern effectively you need both a majority of the people AND the local communities.
 
#541
#541
kcvols1 said:
So what if I was an attorney? It’s basic reading comprehension, there’s no trick to it. Broad language confers broad authority. Narrow language confers narrow authority. Both can exist in constitutions depending on how they’re written.

Even strict constructionists would agree with this.

For example of how a specific grant works, see the commerce clause and the interstate highway system.

For a broad grant like the one in the Tennessee constitution, see the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution. I can only assume the authors of the Tennessee constitution felt they didn’t have to list our health departments because the legislature and local governments would be staffed with people who would be able to fashion local laws that best suited each local community.

It’s the strength of American democracy in that it doesn’t actually run from the top down. To govern effectively you need both a majority of the people AND the local communities.
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Perfect example. The commerce clause has nothing to do with the interstate highway system. Article 1 Section 8 gives Congress the authority to build post roads. The idea that the authority to manage elections somehow gives the authority to delegate responsibility to the executive is just wishful thinking. It is imaginary, but that's nothing new with government officials. They imagine themselves having all kinds of authority that they simply don't have.
 
#542
#542
macrovol said:
Perfect example. The commerce clause has nothing to do with the interstate highway system. Article 1 Section 8 gives Congress the authority to build post roads. The idea that the authority to manage elections somehow gives the authority to delegate responsibility to the executive is just wishful thinking. It is imaginary, but that's nothing new with government officials. They imagine themselves having all kinds of authority that they simply don't have.
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Ok, man. Are you positing that the legislature cannot delegate authority to the executive branch under the Tennessee Constitution?
 
#547
#547
kcvols1 said:
So any DOC regulations are void ab initio?
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Article II

Section 1. The powers of the government shall be divided into three distinct
departments: legislative, executive, and judicial.

Section 2. No person or persons belonging to one of these departments shall
exercise any of the powers properly belonging to either of the others, except in
the cases herein directed or permitted

Section 20. The style of the laws of this state shall be, “Be it enacted by the
General Assembly of the State of Tennessee.”
 
#548
#548
macrovol said:
Article II

Section 1. The powers of the government shall be divided into three distinct
departments: legislative, executive, and judicial.

Section 2. No person or persons belonging to one of these departments shall
exercise any of the powers properly belonging to either of the others, except in
the cases herein directed or permitted

Section 20. The style of the laws of this state shall be, “Be it enacted by the
General Assembly of the State of Tennessee.”
Click to expand...

So that’s a “no” then?
 
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