Kiffin Proven Wrong About Talent...

#1
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VegasVol

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#1
The 2009 roster lost just one draft pick off the roster and added several more with the talent to be just that (J. Jackson, Brown, Aaron Douglas, Lathers, etc). We had a more talented team with a simpler more talent-conforming offensive scheme. Yet, we had the 3rd worst season we've had in 20 years. As Clay Travis noted, we were Vegas favorites to win 9 times, and two of those underdog games were to less-talented teams by NFL draft standards.

The problem in 2009 was a lousy HC not a lack of talent.
 
#2
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VegasVol said:
The problem in 2009 was a lousy HC not a lack of talent.
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Will you still be saying that when Dooley fails to make a bowl game this year? Has the Philsbury Dough Boy been offered another coaching job yet?
 
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#3
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All the guys that got drafted excelled under Kiffin and several of them were mediocre before his arrival. Dan Williams was pretty good, but really took it to the next level in 2009. Chris Scott, McClendon, and Montario Hardesty I'm sure will tell you Kiffin and his staff improved their draft stock quite a bit. And Crompton, I mean come the hell on. The only player I feel like failed to improve in 2009 was Daniel Lincoln. Sadly, that led to a couple of losses or more for us.
 
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#5
#5
I see where the OP is coming from. We should have beaten UCLA and Auburn, and lost those games in my opinion b/c of poor coaching.... However, not even Neyland himself could have done anything with our depleted LB corps by the end of the season.
 
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kptvol said:
All the guys that got drafted excelled under Kiffin and several of them were mediocre before his arrival. Dan Williams was pretty good, but really took it to the next level in 2009. Chris Scott, McClendon, and Montario Hardesty I'm sure will tell you Kiffin and his staff improved their draft stock quite a bit. And Crompton, I mean come the hell on.
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+1
 
#9
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kptvol said:
All the guys that got drafted excelled under Kiffin and several of them were mediocre before his arrival. Dan Williams was pretty good, but really took it to the next level in 2009. Chris Scott, McClendon, and Montario Hardesty I'm sure will tell you Kiffin and his staff improved their draft stock quite a bit. And Crompton, I mean come the hell on.
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I'm not really sure that McClendon and Scott were mediocre and then excelled under Kiffin... Even by many experts, McClendon's 4th round pick was a shocker... However, Kiffin certainly can rest his hat on the improved stock of Montario (although how much of it was Kiffin and how much of it was Montario's attitude and health can be debated) and most certainly Crompton.
 
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WPAINE said:
I'm not really sure that McClendon and Scott were mediocre and then excelled under Kiffin... Even by many experts, McClendon's 4th round pick was a shocker... However, Kiffin certainly can rest his hat on the improved stock of Montario (although how much of it was Kiffin and how much of it was Montario's attitude and health can be debated) and most certainly Crompton.
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Hardesty rushed for more yards under Kiffin than he did in 3 years under Fulmer. He wasn't injured the entire time.
 
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WPAINE said:
I'm not really sure that McClendon and Scott were mediocre and then excelled under Kiffin... Even by many experts, McClendon's 4th round pick was a shocker... However, Kiffin certainly can rest his hat on the improved stock of Montario (although how much of it was Kiffin and how much of it was Montario's attitude and health can be debated) and most certainly Crompton.
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Chris Scott was one of the most improved players on the team. He was borderline worthless in 2008.
 
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SGMVols said:
Hardesty rushed for more yards under Kiffin than he did in 3 years under Fulmer. He wasn't injured the entire time.
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No, but it was his first year as the featured back. Of course he is going to run for more yards.... Either way, you did notice how I said Kiffin could rest his hat on Hardesty's improved draft stock right? I'm not debating that, just saying that a debate could be made as to how influential Kiffin was and how much of it was Montario himself.. We knew from the time he came in as a freshman that he had the potential.
 
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WPAINE said:
I'm not really sure that McClendon and Scott were mediocre and then excelled under Kiffin... Even by many experts, McClendon's 4th round pick was a shocker... However, Kiffin certainly can rest his hat on the improved stock of Montario (although how much of it was Kiffin and how much of it was Montario's attitude and health can be debated) and most certainly Crompton.
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I don't know what the rushing totals were for Foster, Hardesty, Creer, and Poole in 2008, but I'm betting the combined sum is less than Hardesty in 2009. Speaking of Arian, I wonder what would have become of Foster under the Kiffin regime. Look at him now. He's managed to move up a depth chart in Houston because of his ball security. I don't think that is going to be credited to his college coaching.
 
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WPAINE said:
No, but it was his first year as the featured back. Of course he is going to run for more yards.... Either way, you did notice how I said Kiffin could rest his hat on Hardesty's improved draft stock right? I'm not debating that, just saying that a debate could be made as to how influential Kiffin was and how much of it was Montario himself.. We knew from the time he came in as a freshman that he had the potential.
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He managed to run for more yards than Travis Henry or Jamal Lewis ever did. Before that, he was a guy most UT fans wouldn't remember in ten years. Had he not gotten a medical redshirt in 2005, that might have been how his career panned out.
 
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kptvol said:
Chris Scott was one of the most improved players on the team. He was borderline worthless in 2008.
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well, everyone was worthless in 2008 - perhaps influenced by the unusual blocking schemes put in place by Clawson.... I just don't think you can label a guy that started every game the past 3 seasons as mediocre and only excelled in one year b/c of Kiffin...
 
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WPAINE said:
well, everyone was worthless in 2008 - perhaps influenced by the unusual blocking schemes put in place by Clawson.... I just don't think you can label a guy that started every game the past 3 seasons as mediocre and only excelled in one year b/c of Kiffin...
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It seems like it has become a Fulmerite tradition to blame the '08 offense's failures on Clawson. What's the excuse for '05?
 
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kptvol said:
He managed to run for more yards than Travis Henry or Jamal Lewis ever did. Before that, he was a guy most UT fans wouldn't remember in ten years. Had he not gotten a medical redshirt in 2005, that might have been how his career panned out.
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ok? I'm not quite sure if you think you are arguing with me or just stating facts. I don't disagree with you... This same argument could be said about Travis Stephens as well - ala nobody would have remember him in 10 years if it wasn't for his one breakout year.
 
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WPAINE said:
well, everyone was worthless in 2008 - perhaps influenced by the unusual blocking schemes put in place by Clawson.... I just don't think you can label a guy that started every game the past 3 seasons as mediocre and only excelled in one year b/c of Kiffin...
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Why not? I'm sure he'd tell you his last year was by far his best. That tends to happen when you go from Greg Atkins to an NFL OL coach, Jim Chaney, and Mitch Browning.
 
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WPAINE said:
ok? I'm not quite sure if you think you are arguing with me or just stating facts. I don't disagree with you... This same argument could be said about Travis Stephens as well - ala nobody would have remember him in 10 years if it wasn't for his one breakout year.
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But Travis Stephens was behind future prolific Pro-Bowlers that were having fantastic seasons. Hardesty was for the most part watching the guys in front of him struggle.
 
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SGMVols said:
It seems like it has become a Fulmerite tradition to blame the '08 offense's failures on Clawson. What's the excuse for '05?
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it seems to be a tradition to simply label someone a "Fulmerite" whenever someone disagrees with those who consistently bash Fulmer...

I actually believe Clawson's offense would have succeeded here, but surely we can all agree that it takes awhile for an offensive scheme to really set in with the players, and when you introduce one as foreign as Clawson's, I think it is fair to say that the players aren't going to play up to their potential....If you disagree, that's fine, just call me a Fulmerite and move on.
 
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NFL scout complaints with Phil was that he had stopped coaching the players to full potential as compared to when he stared. The Dude lost the fire and got comfortable. The last staff brought out the best in last year's team. Shame the kid bolted for the west coast. With that staff it would have been interesting this year.
 
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WPAINE said:
it seems to be a tradition to simply label someone a "Fulmerite" whenever someone disagrees with those who consistently bash Fulmer...

I actually believe Clawson's offense would have succeeded here, but surely we can all agree that it takes awhile for an offensive scheme to really set in with the players, and when you introduce one as foreign as Clawson's, I think it is fair to say that the players aren't going to play up to their potential....If you disagree, that's fine, just call me a Fulmerite and move on.
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Well, if we're to believe Fulmer, he said he planned to fire Clawson had he been retained as head coach.
 
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