Kentucky

Otis1105

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We beat Mizzou last year...
Kentucky usually every year historically...

I like Kentucky and how they've built themselves into a respectable program.
But they are not even close to being in the same league as Tennessee as a program.

Tennessee won't lose to Kentucky while Heupel is coach. Because as I've pointed out to you BEFORE. Anytime UT has an offense in the top 30...not top 5...TOP 30... They completely dominate UK.

Victories against either would not be an upset. Ole Miss either...
what does history have to do with this years UT and UK series? Is it an alumni game this year? Also, there is no evidence to this point that UT will have a top 30 offense. Further, there is no evidence the offense will even be better than UKs.
 

RDU VOL#14

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You are really struggling with the reality that is UT football aren't you?

I didn't say that being top 10 in all time wins and draft picks deters top recruits, I said that being top 10 in all time wins and draft recruits, because of the state of the program 30+ years ago, is not going to entice recruits in 2021.

They do not care about of what UT did back in the 50's, 80's, 90's or even the early 2000's. They want to play for a coach and program that is going to develop them, and give them the best shot at getting into the NFL.

Until UT and Heupel can prove that they are capable of doing so again, "winning tradition" means nothing.
I agree with your post, but I do think the fact that we’ve been there before helps because I don’t think the ascent back to the top is as long, it just takes the right leadership. The history we have is the reason we have 100k+ stadium, the facilities we have and the 365 days a year fan base. It allows commentators to say “ Well it looks like Tennessee is back to being Tennessee” whenever that may happen. Other schools like an Ole Miss, Arkansas, South Carolina, UNC or a Georgia Tech can’t really do that and don’t have that brand recognition and luxury that can create momentum like we can.
 

BeardedVol

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I agree with your post, but I do think the fact that we’ve been there before helps because I don’t think the ascent back to the top is as long, it just takes the right leadership. The history we have is the reason we have 100k+ stadium, the facilities we have and the 365 days a year fan base. It allows commentators to say “ Well it looks like Tennessee is back to being Tennessee” whenever that may happen. Other schools like an Ole Miss, Arkansas, South Carolina, UNC or a Georgia Tech can’t really do that and don’t have that brand recognition and luxury that can create momentum like we can.
That kind of stuff matters to fans, especially when there's not much else to hang out collective hat on.

Recruits though, no it just doesn't matter these days. The reality of our recent mass transfer from the program of a significant portion of the most highly ranked recruits of the last few cycles is proof enough of that. They want to win. They want the best chance of getting prepared for the NFL. That is the reality or modern college football.

Heupel starts winning on the field, and he'll win on the recruiting trail. No amount of talking up a "winning tradition" is going to convince a recruit who has their eyes set in entering the NFL as a 1st or 2nd round pick in three years, if there isn't a measure of on-the-field success.
 

BigOrangeAl 1979

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My biggest concern with Heupel is he won’t be able to able to recruit worth a hoot in this league. Getting out recruited by Stoops and Drinkawitz is not a good early sign. He rode the coattails of Scott Frost at UCF as well. It reminds of Butch following Brian Kelly at Central Michigan and Cinncy but Butch was a good recruiter.
 

BeardedVol

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My biggest concern with Heupel is he won’t be able to able to recruit worth a hoot in this league. Getting out recruited by Stoops and Drinkawitz is not a good early sign. He rode the coattails of Scott Frost at UCF as well. It reminds of Butch following Brian Kelly at Central Michigan and Cinncy but Butch was a good recruiter.
He may very well have ridden Frost's coattails, and he definitely did benefit from his recruiting, but that doesn't mean he's not capable himself; we're going to find out over the next couple of years. The difference between him and Butch at the moment, is that Butch literally made his entire pre-UT career out of intentionally following Brian Kelly, and was basically "fool's gold" when he had to rely on his own recruiting and development. With only three years of HC experience at a single school, what Heupel is or isn't, is still an unknown.
 
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RDU VOL#14

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That kind of stuff matters to fans, especially when there's not much else to hang out collective hat on.

Recruits though, no it just doesn't matter these days. The reality of our recent mass transfer from the program of a significant portion of the most highly ranked recruits of the last few cycles is proof enough of that. They want to win. They want the best chance of getting prepared for the NFL. That is the reality or modern college football.

Heupel starts winning on the field, and he'll win on the recruiting trail. No amount of talking up a "winning tradition" is going to convince a recruit who has their eyes set in entering the NFL as a 1st or 2nd round pick in three years, if there isn't a measure of on-the-field success.
I understand that. I’ve said as much on here many times. I think this season is huge in terms of showing recruits that our staff can get guys to produce at a high level. My point was that because of our history we might get more brand recognition in the media than some new $ schools that had a few draft picks .
 

BowlBrother85

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Has Kentucky now passed us in football? I think it’s a legitimate question to ask at the moment. They have a more stable program and coach and are now recruiting better. They have made 5 straight bowl appearances and have a 2-2 record against us since 2017 along with blowing us out in Neyland last season 34-7. They will also be probaly favored in this years game in Lexington. What are y’all’s thoughts is Kentucky a more attractive football program now and going forward?
As bad as Tennessee football has been since 2008, Kentucky has only beaten Tennessee three times since then. So, it's 11-3 in Tennessee's favor... and was Kentucky any good last year? They finished 5-6.

No, they haven't passed us.
 

Otis1105

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As bad as Tennessee football has been since 2008, Kentucky has only beaten Tennessee three times since then. So, it's 11-3 in Tennessee's favor... and was Kentucky any good last year? They finished 5-6.

No, they haven't passed us.
Well as bad as Tennessee has been UK has always been worse. 11-3 doesn’t mean as much as 2-2 in the last 4 which is a better representation of where both schools are currently. UK is probably an equal program now, UT has the higher ceiling
 
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BowlBrother85

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Well as bad as Tennessee has been UK has always been worse. 11-3 doesn’t mean as much as 2-2 in the last 4 which is a better representation of where both schools are currently. UK is probably an equal program now, UT has the higher ceiling
The teams may be equal right now... the programs are still miles apart. And beyond this one class (2022), which Heupel still has 6 months to salvage, I dispute the OP's assertion that Kentucky has recruited better.

Although, it goes without saying that Tennessee's roster has been gutted by the rash of transfers which followed the announcement of an internal investigation.
 
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Otis1105

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The teams may be equal right now... the programs are still miles apart. And beyond this one class (2022), which Heupel still has 6 months to salvage, I dispute the OP's assertion that Kentucky has recruited better.

Although, it goes without saying that Tennessee's roster has been gutted by the rash of transfers which followed the announcement of an internal investigation.
Define for me program. It’s an encompassing word that gets thrown about a lot. And I very well could argue both sides on how you define program. For example, I define program as recent history, coupled with future projection for this season, development of players, players drafted. So by my definition of program, they are roughly equal on the field and better at getting their players drafted. Now if you are defining as which program has a higher ceiling and bigger donor base, coupled with more than just recent history I will agree with your ranking of the programs just not your definition of program.
 

BowlBrother85

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Define for me program. It’s an encompassing word that gets thrown about a lot. And I very well could argue both sides on how you define program. For example, I define program as recent history, coupled with future projection for this season, development of players, players drafted. So by my definition of program, they are roughly equal on the field and better at getting their players drafted. Now if you are defining as which program has a higher ceiling and bigger donor base, coupled with more than just recent history I will agree with your ranking of the programs just not your definition of program.
I guess it can mean whatever you want it mean... but when I hear "program", I think of it encompassing facilities, tradition, fan support, recruiting budget, game day atmosphere.. I don't factor in a lot of the peripheral things that you do. Future projection for this season?
 

Otis1105

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I guess it can mean whatever you want it mean... but when I hear "program", I think of it encompassing facilities, tradition, fan support, recruiting budget, game day atmosphere.. I don't factor in a lot of the peripheral things that you do. Future projection for this season?
So, UT and Clemson are roughly the same from a program perspective? Clemson has better facilities, but less tradition.
 

Volfan76

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Has Kentucky now passed us in football? I think it’s a legitimate question to ask at the moment. They have a more stable program and coach and are now recruiting better. They have made 5 straight bowl appearances and have a 2-2 record against us since 2017 along with blowing us out in Neyland last season 34-7. They will also be probaly favored in this years game in Lexington. What are y’all’s thoughts is Kentucky a more attractive football program now and going forward?
Right now their administration is more committed to winning than ours is. UT can get back on top with a recommitment to winning, but right now the 2 programs are headed in opposite directions. UK has an underpaid 4.75 million dollar coach. UT has an overpaid 4 million dollar coach.
 

TNnative

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My biggest concern with Heupel is he won’t be able to able to recruit worth a hoot in this league. Getting out recruited by Stoops and Drinkawitz is not a good early sign. He rode the coattails of Scott Frost at UCF as well. It reminds of Butch following Brian Kelly at Central Michigan and Cinncy but Butch was a good recruiter.
Yeah, but Butch was also a good de-recruiter. Almost as amazing as the number of players he reeled in was the number of players he sent over the edge of the boat. And being out recruited by Stoops and Drinkawitz with these sanctions hanging over his head? WTF do you expect?
 

unfrozencvmanvol

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I agree with your post, but I do think the fact that we’ve been there before helps because I don’t think the ascent back to the top is as long, it just takes the right leadership. The history we have is the reason we have 100k+ stadium, the facilities we have and the 365 days a year fan base. It allows commentators to say “ Well it looks like Tennessee is back to being Tennessee” whenever that may happen. Other schools like an Ole Miss, Arkansas, South Carolina, UNC or a Georgia Tech can’t really do that and don’t have that brand recognition and luxury that can create momentum like we can.
Ole Miss, Arkansas and Georgia Tech were all once mighty. Then they stayed irrelevant for so long everyone forgot. That is a danger we now face if we don't get back in the next 10 years or so.
 

RDU VOL#14

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Ole Miss, Arkansas and Georgia Tech were all once mighty. Then they stayed irrelevant for so long everyone forgot. That is a danger we now face if we don't get back in the next 10 years or so.
They all have had their moments I suppose, but I don’t think any of them belong in the same conversation with us. Ole Miss hasn’t won an SEC title in nearly 60 years, Georgia Tech has had some success and has won a National Title more recently than UGA (haha) , but they’re not doing much of anything in a largely mediocre conference. Arkansas is Arkansas.
 

volfaninky

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Ole Miss, Arkansas and Georgia Tech were all once mighty. Then they stayed irrelevant for so long everyone forgot. That is a danger we now face if we don't get back in the next 10 years or so.
I would use teams like Colorado, Nebraska, Miami, Texas etc as falling off in our lifetime, those were all mighty at one time not Ole Miss, GT and Arkansas.
 

BigOrangeAl 1979

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They all have had their moments I suppose, but I don’t think any of them belong in the same conversation with us. Ole Miss hasn’t won an SEC title in nearly 60 years, Georgia Tech has had some success and has won a National Title more recently than UGA (haha) , but they’re not doing much of anything in a largely mediocre conference. Arkansas is Arkansas.
Unfortunately I can see our SEC title drought which is now at 23 years hitting 30 years and each year that passes by we slip further and further into irrelevancy. Here’s hoping Heupel can get this thing turned around.
 

unfrozencvmanvol

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They all have had their moments I suppose, but I don’t think any of them belong in the same conversation with us. Ole Miss hasn’t won an SEC title in nearly 60 years, Georgia Tech has had some success and has won a National Title more recently than UGA (haha) , but they’re not doing much of anything in a largely mediocre conference. Arkansas is Arkansas.
Ole Miss was tied with us for SEC championships as late as 1966. For the first 31 seasons of the AP poll era, from 1936-1966, Georgia Tech was the second winningest program, behind only Oklahoma. Alabama and Tennessee were tied for third, Ole Miss was seventh. Arkansas and Ole Miss were the 3rd and 4th winningest teams of the 1960's (i.e. on par with what we were in the 90's), we were 19th. Arkansas won more football games than Tennessee in both the 70's and 80's as well. My point is teams can have a great history, but if they are irrelevant for long enough, it no longer matters, people will view them the way you view those programs. I am not saying that time has come for Tennessee, but it'll come sooner than most of us who remember our last run think if we don't get it turned around. If our current dysfunction continues another 10 years or so, our history will be nearly completely forgotten by the mass of non-Tennessee fans as well, we'll be starting from scratch brand wise. This next decade is absolutely critical for the long term future of Tennessee football.
 

unfrozencvmanvol

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My biggest concern with Heupel is he won’t be able to able to recruit worth a hoot in this league. Getting out recruited by Stoops and Drinkawitz is not a good early sign. He rode the coattails of Scott Frost at UCF as well. It reminds of Butch following Brian Kelly at Central Michigan and Cinncy but Butch was a good recruiter.
He's under a severe handicap right now due to the investigation and looming sanctions. You're not going to be able to fairly assess his recruiting abilities for awhile. Right now, he's just trying to make the best of a bad situation.
 
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LittleVol

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Why are you assuming we'll have a top 30 offense? This ain't UCF, we play teams with actual defenses.
Do we now??

Tell me more about these top defenses in the SEC.

Speaking of UCF, the last time they played against an "SEC" defense it put 32 points against it...
The next year that SEC team went 15-0.

Why am I assuming?? Uhm...maybe because EVERY offense Heupel has ever coached has been top 25 😯!
Even at lowly Mizzou with their 3 star players galore.
 

LittleVol

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what does history have to do with this years UT and UK series? Is it an alumni game this year? Also, there is no evidence to this point that UT will have a top 30 offense. Further, there is no evidence the offense will even be better than UKs.
Oh really?
Then what does last years game have to do with this year????
See how that works?

No evidence? No kidding. They've not played a game yet!! You're so wise...

Every offense he's ever coached has been top 25...so that's the evidence at hand.

But keep believing UK is actually better if you want. And let's just ignore history...Heupels offensive track record; UTs historical dominance of UK....lets just not even give it ANY credit 👍👍👍
 

LittleVol

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Unfortunately I can see our SEC title drought which is now at 23 years hitting 30 years and each year that passes by we slip further and further into irrelevancy. Here’s hoping Heupel can get this thing turned around.
It may go to 40 years!

But he will NEVER LOSE to Kentucky.

You're ridiculous for even trying to make an argument. When we had average...just average QB play we beat the best most talented UK team in history 21-7

That was just 2 years ago...

Kentucky has been stable as you said. Heupel hasn't even been here 6 months yet. Why would UT be out recruiting them right now, with sanctions looming and us not even having played a game yet??
 

RDU VOL#14

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Unfortunately I can see our SEC title drought which is now at 23 years hitting 30 years and each year that passes by we slip further and further into irrelevancy. Here’s hoping Heupel can get this thing turned around.
Ole Miss was tied with us for SEC championships as late as 1966. For the first 31 seasons of the AP poll era, from 1936-1966, Georgia Tech was the second winningest program, behind only Oklahoma. Alabama and Tennessee were tied for third, Ole Miss was seventh. Arkansas and Ole Miss were the 3rd and 4th winningest teams of the 1960's (i.e. on par with what we were in the 90's), we were 19th. Arkansas won more football games than Tennessee in both the 70's and 80's as well. My point is teams can have a great history, but if they are irrelevant for long enough, it no longer matters, people will view them the way you view those programs. I am not saying that time has come for Tennessee, but it'll come sooner than most of us who remember our last run think if we don't get it turned around. If our current dysfunction continues another 10 years or so, our history will be nearly completely forgotten by the mass of non-Tennessee fans as well, we'll be starting from scratch brand wise. This next decade is absolutely critical for the long term future of Tennessee football.
I understand the point you’re both making and I agree that the next decade is critical in making us relevant again. I think the difference between us and some of those other schools is that most people don’t remember those schools being elite, and certainly not for maintaining their success over a long period of time. Our brand is much more recognizable than any of those 3 programs and I think our ability to get back to where we once were is much more attainable than those other 3. I really hope that Heupel is the answer. I think that even if he’s not going to bring us championships he will make our program much more attractive than it has been in a very long time.
 

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